meeting a local - Situ(O.gibbsi or O.tetricus)

21 degrees is nice for about an hour without a wetsuit. I have never bothered to try them in my tank, I will get one next time I'm there and see how they go. As for reproducing I have no idea at all, you do find quite small ones there. It looks like I might have to spend some more time down there doing some research for you, it also sounds like a good excuse I can use to tell my wife...:sly:

heres what I call a Chiton

Chiton.jpg



This picture of the same octopus when it was on the left side of the rock pool sitting out on the sand.
IMG_0876.jpg

This is sitting at the enterance of it's den at the lower right of the pool.
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These shells are a main source of food for these particular octopus, to give a a idea of the size of things in the picture, the shells are about 7 or 8 cm across. The webbing is about 1/3rd or a bit less of the length of the overall arm. haggs
 
haggs;128494 said:
It looks like I might have to spend some more time down there doing some research for you, it also sounds like a good excuse I can use to tell my wife...:sly:

:sagrin:
Yep, that is the same critter I have in my reef tank. I did some internet exploring on their reproduction and found that there are both males and females although one source suggested that they are both most of what I found implied two distinct sexes without info on how to sex them. The articles were very general and said things like "some" octopuses eat them (the link then took you to the definition of an octopus :roll:). It appears that there are a large number of species of chitons and some of the photos suggested attractive coloration (mine is the same boring, camo color as your picture as were the initial ones Neal and I saw - or at least paid attention to - in St. Maartin this summer). Again, "some" species have live birth with others lay eggs. All references said the female gets the sperm from the water and not through copulation. I could not find any negatives about them so I am seriously thinking about trying to raise a brood just for the fun of it. If it turns out the octos will eat them, all the better but they are kind of intresting algae critters and don't seem to have any negatives (at least that I can find). I was amazed at the distance ours traveled in the course of 24 hours since the ones in St. Maartin seemed barnacle like and we were not even sure they were alive. It was also interesting to note that they are nocturnal and that their shells have a common name of "butterfly shell" when found on the beach, they have no head or tail but do have a mouth with rasp, a skirt and a pass through canal.
 
I thought I would add a few more pictures, I just realised that I have been taking pictures of these for over 2 and a half years now....

"dwhatley"... I brought home a few Chitons yesterday to see what I can "learn", I will keep in touch. haggs
 

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Haggs,

Be sure to keep your Chiton report on this thread so I can keep visiting your tidal pool! :mrgreen:

With three I recently tried the two that died were about 2" (5 cm) and the one that is doing very well is about 4" (10 cm obviously). Their deaths were strange in that one found its way to the back of the nano and was happily munching on algae at the top of the sump. Neal moved it back to the main tank and the next day it died. Similarly, I moved the second one that seemed content and it fell 4' (1.3 meters) inside the tank and never moved again. We did not pry or obviously damage either of these. The large one was placed at a high point in the reef tank but was still a good foot (.3 meters) from the surface. Within a day it crawled to the top up the black wall and has stays at or just at the water line. I am thinking they need air and that we drown the other two so you might test my theory. I am also wondering if the larger is male/female and the smaller ones the opposite but the sizing could easily be age. I should be able to get more without much problem but would like to see what you find out before I order them (I am also watching my survivor to be sure he/she is going to make it but so far so good). I was hoping these would work for my small amounts of occassional hair algae since I starve anything that lives solely on it but do need some help controlling small amounts. If my theory about them needing to be at the surface turns out to be true, I am afraid they won't be helpful in this aspect but I still want to see if they would be useful for home grown octo treats.

Are the eye "lids" (I don't know the appropriate term) that white to the naked eye or is the bright white a result of the camera flash? My hummelincki (note avitar) show an orangish color (very interesting and somewhat demonic looking when the "lids" flash but nothing else changes color) all the time.
 
From where I have seen them in pools and in the ocean, I don't think that they do need the surface. Most of the ones I see are usually under rocks or "in hiding" and often a long way from being able to reach the surface.

There's still no sign of any of the octopus...

At the moment the pools are warming up and the algae is starting to grow, sea slugs and nudi's are showing up. The "spagetti" in the last picture is a ball of eggs from the "weedy" sea slug. haggs
 

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Today it's been 4 weeks without seeing any of the adults..... but it's not all bad news. This afternoon I found a "young'n". It's arm length is about 7.5 cm, and I was able to reach in and touch the octupus on the body, it responded by reaching around and wraping 2 of it's arms around my finger and giving it a good pull. My friend that was with me, who has never experienced anything like this was able to do the same, then we left it in peace seeing it was our first meeting.

"D" I took note of it's "eye" and yes they are white as per the photos, so it's not caused from the camera flash. Also in regards to the chitons that I caught nearly 2 weeks ago, one has died on day 3 but the other 2 seem to be ok. The larger of them is about 5cm and it lives on the bare bottom of the tank while the smaller 2.5 cm one lives on the live rock. Neither seem to be interested in the little patch of "weed" that is growing on the glass.

I'm guessing that most of you would like to see my new friend, to give you a idea on size the button polyps are about 2cm across. Does anyone want to give him/her a name for me? haggs
 

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Sooo glad you found us and can share enjoying wild cephs in their habitat :wink:. It adds a really nice dimension to the forums.

I will venture a guess at male only because of the arm curl shown in the first picture but I do notice that the arm in the upper left is also curled similarly.

As for the naming contest, my vote is Situ since he will be the first in situ octo journaled here :biggrin2:

Interesting that you lost a chiton on day 3 as that was about the time we lost the second one (I think the water may have been a problem with the first as the canister I run on the FOWLR was ummm, over due for a cleaning -sumps and socks are sooo much better than a canister filter!) but our largest (about twice the size of your largest) is still doing well. As it turns out Chef_Reef (Florida, USA) has fed these to his recently departed Little Chef (hummelincki - the same species as my OhToo) with success so with your report I am going to acquire a few and see if they will breed in an aquarium environment. I am thinking about putting two more in the reef and maybe four or five in stand-alone tank if I can figure out how to feed them (more reading). From what I found so far, they eat algae and the one I am observing stays at the top of the tank but moves from one side to the other at night (but does not touch the transparent surface). This confirms the night feeding activity I read in one article. A separate article said they would not leave a spot until all the algae was consumed but this guy travels at least 6 feet (2 meters) in a night at least once a week (but not every night or he returns before the morning).
 
"D" ........situ ...it is, I went back yesterday afternoon but could'nt find him, but it is quite a large pool and there are plenty of hiding spots while he is still small.

The larger chiton appears to really dislike the light, even if I go out with a small led torch, as soon as I shine the light on it, it heads for cover. It appears to go to the same spot each morning, well before daylight, whereas the smaller one seems less worried and stays where ever it is until darkness comes again. So that will be my project next time I'm down the pool... look to see if there is a pattern to where they hide. haggs
 
haggs;129802 said:
The larger chiton appears to really dislike the light, even if I go out with a small led torch, as soon as I shine the light on it, it heads for cover.

You actually see it move? I have never seen our's in a mobile state. I wonder if you shine a light on the ones in the water if they will become mobile. It would seem like the ideal way to catch them since they would not be glued to the rock. If you get the opportunity to experiment, let me know the results as I will forward the idea to the collector I use in the Keys. The ones we saw in St. Maartin were in very shallow water (hundreds of them) and we were not even sure if they were skeletal remains as they did not easily come off the rock and we did not want to harm them by trying too hard just in case they were alive.

I hope Situ will be making his home in your tidal pool and you can continue to observe him. If he does make himself available, it would be nice to open a journal thread, hopefully with a species id, that links to this thread. I looked up Steve's species suggestion (Octopus tetricus or Gloomy Octopus) but the picture was missing from my first attempt:

http://www.anu.edu.au/BoZo/KioloaEc...usca/cephalopoda/MolluscaOctopus_tetricus.htm

One of the distinguishing factors, however, was the bright white on the eyes.

This link did produce a photo:

http://www.deepseaimages.com/dsilibrary/showphoto.php?photo=9787 that certainly looks like Situ.
 
Haha…. Yes and they are reasonably quick ..well about the speed of a normal garden type slug. I have actually shone the light at the “back” of the chiton and it moved out of the light beam, then I shone it on the other end and it went in reverse to get out of the light.
I went down the pool late this afternoon to try the torch theory but the sea was a bit on the rough side and the water was quite dirty with waves breaking over the pool where I needed to go. So maybe next weekend....
In a couple of hours, after the lights have gone off I will go and experiment with the ones in the tank and let you know in the morning.

The chitons you saw in the pools would be alive, when they die the outer shell actually breaks up into eight individual segments. This consists of the 2 half moon shaped ends and six Butterfly shaped pieces that make up the rest of the body. If you are very quick and poke your thumb nail under them you are sometimes able to lift them off, however if they feel you touching them it gives them the split second that they need to “lock onto” where they are.

Thanks for the link … I think that is a definite ID, the white eye is a certain giveaway.

Earlier this year I was down there playing with one of the adults (and of course it was one of the rare times I didn’t have my camera) I actually got the occy to come right out of the water all but the tips of two arms. I was amazed, I had been playing with it for about 20 minutes and was ready to leave when it climbed out …the lesson learned was..NEVER go without the camera. haggs
 
One of the things I read about the chitons is that there is no back or front :shock:, no brain, just the shell, fleshy part and an in one end and out the other tube (although this would seem to make a back and a front since there is a mouth at the input side). I will try your aquarium experiment with mine tonight as well to see if I can actually see the thing move (I know it does but I have never seen it).

Did the one that you lost look alive but just immobile when it died? Mine did not look dead but would not move or attach so I put them in a container overnight just to be sure. I wish I had kept the ones that died to save the shells for my granddaughter, I did not know about the "butterfly" segment until you started me reading up on them and she is facinated with the various sheds that I save for her.

Was the octopus following you, following offered food or climbing on your arm when it came out of the water?
 
dwhatley;129910 said:
One of the things I read about the chitons is that there is no back or front :shock:, no brain, just the shell, fleshy part and an in one end and out the other tube (although this would seem to make a back and a front since there is a mouth at the input side).

I think someone's been yanking your chain:

http://www.cbu.edu/~seisen/Mollusca/sld013.htm

That doesn't really cover the brain, but my recollection is that chitons are similar in style to gastropods, and show similarities to cephalopods as well in the form of an oral ring of ganglia. In any case, they've got a pretty definite front and back, as much as, say, a slug.

edit: another reference that talks more about the nervous system:

POLYPLACOPHORA
 

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