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Lawsuit being filed on Friday June 13th

Patrick1948

Larval Mass
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May 31, 2008
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6
#1
I am filing the lawsuit against Christopher Ilitch on Friday June 13th.
I am basing my lawsuit against Mr. Christopher Ilitch on the Michigan Bodies of Dead Animals Act 239 of 1982.
If the octopus was not in refrigeration before being taken to the arena, and it can be verified, then
is against the law.
I am mailing the papers for the lawsuit to the U.S. District Court on Thursday by Express Mail.
I am also sending a letter to the judge explaining why I have standing in the court.
I am asking the court to issue an order to Christopher Ilitch, President of Ilitch Holdings to publicly announce
that no real octopus can be brought into the arena ever again
I am sure that a toy stuffed octopus would bring good luck to the team just as much as a real one.
Just because this tradition is 56 years old, doesn't mean it is a good one, or a moral one.
The law is from the Michigan Department of Agriculture.
IF the animal has not been in refrigeration for the previous 24 hours before tossing it, the person is breaking the law.
The reason I got involved in this matter, is because I first learned about this tradition two weeks ago.
I have never followed any sports in my life, and I am 60 years old now.
When I saw the dead animal being twirled in the air, it turned my stomach.
The octopus is an intelligent animal, living its life in the ocean.
There are only 3 reasons it is caught; food, scientific research and for a pet.
No animal should be taken from its home and killed, and then used for our amusement.
That is horrible.
my e-mail is peewee_91762@yahoo.com
Everyone has the responsibility of protecting all animal life on the planet.
They are not supposed to be killed, and then used for our amusement.
All animals have the right to live their lives, just like we humans do.
:smile:
 

monty

Colossal Squid
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#2
Interesting. Thanks for explaining the legalities you discovered. Good luck, and I hope this helps to give some publicity to octos as intelligent animals worth of respect and interest.
 

gholland

Haliphron Atlanticus
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Jan 18, 2008
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569
#3
Actually, the fake "rubber" octo alternative would be a financial boon to the organization... they could just pick them all up after the game, wash them, and resell them right there at the arena. In-house sales with no disposal fees.
 

dreadhead

Haliphron Atlanticus
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596
#4
"I am asking the court to issue an order to Christopher Ilitch, President of Ilitch Holdings to publicly announce
that no real octopus can be brought into the arena ever again"
You will already be thrown out of the arena if they find out you have an octopus with you.
How will you prove the octo wasn't refrigerated for 24 hrs? After a 3 hr game(stuffed in your shirt/pants)it will be hard to tell. I think your wasting your time.;)
 

jellyman

O. vulgaris
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Feb 14, 2006
Messages
86
#6
[edited: basic message 'no one cares'] You will loose and waste thousands of tax payers dollars. I wish I could tell you how I really feel but I would be banned from the forum. If you take time to read the law invertebrates are not considered. Either are insects. You can kill and tortue them becuase they are considered food or nuisance. Did you know that ALL stadiums spray insecticides to kill bugs and lay down poison to control rodents. How many billions of innocent lifeforms must die so we can pleasure ourselves with sporting events. [...] I'd wish you luck if it was not for all the money that will be wasted on this rather then onimprtant legal matters.
 

jellyman

O. vulgaris
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86
#7
dreadhead;119693 said:
"I am asking the court to issue an order to Christopher Ilitch, President of Ilitch Holdings to publicly announce
that no real octopus can be brought into the arena ever again"
QUOTE]
This is already an announced and published policy that has been in place at the arena for some time. If once in the arena, and found by security, the parties are escorted out of the arena. They are not charged with anything because they have not broken any law.

As for the 24 hour frig rule. This does not apply to invertebrates or insects. A pet store that carries fish/ivertebrates only does not even require a pet shop license because there are NO regulations on the treatment/cruelty of fish, invertebrate or insects. In my opinion there should be but there are not.

This is not so much a waste of time but a waste of tax payer money. How about being more productive and get the tax payer money spent on trying to go after these money hungry oil companies so we can all benefit!!!!
 

Jean

Colossal Squid
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Nov 19, 2002
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Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
#8
jellyman;119795 said:
[edited: basic message 'no one cares'] You will loose and waste thousands of tax payers dollars. I wish I could tell you how I really feel but I would be banned from the forum. If you take time to read the law invertebrates are not considered. Either are insects. You can kill and tortue them becuase they are considered food or nuisance. Did you know that ALL stadiums spray insecticides to kill bugs and lay down poison to control rodents. How many billions of innocent lifeforms must die so we can pleasure ourselves with sporting events. [...] I'd wish you luck if it was not for all the money that will be wasted on this rather then onimprtant legal matters.

Actually that's not strictly true, many of us do care! I find it totally offensive to toss the corpse of an animal around (whether it be an octopus a dog or whatever). We try very hard to teach our students to be respectful of the specimens they work with in the lab and I see no reason why sports people shouldn't have the same respect.

Just because inverts are not legally considered animals (interestingly squid, octopus, crabs and rock lobster are under NZ legislation!) doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated with respect.

Whether or not the lawsuit is going to waste money is to some extent up to Patrick, (although I assume the courts would have something to say as well). I agree it's going to be a hard one to prove but the same can be said of many lawsuits which ended up being landmark cases.

respectfully

J
 

Tintenfisch

Architeuthis
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#9
Patrick, It will be interesting to hear how this progresses. I think many of us would appreciate the discontinuation of this tradition, even if we may not all agree about the best way to solve the problem.

Jellyman, you are welcome to express your opinion, but please be civil.
 

jellyman

O. vulgaris
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#10
Tintenfisch;119810 said:
Patrick, It will be interesting to hear how this progresses. I think many of us would appreciate the discontinuation of this tradition, even if we may not all agree about the best way to solve the problem.

Jellyman, you are welcome to express your opinion, but please be civil.
I was extremely civil. Eveyone on this board is as guilty as the guy throwing the octopus onto the ice, including me. We take octopus from the wild, place them in tanks that are too small, and try to justify that we give them all the best living conditions possble. And for what, our own amusement. I enjoy my saltwater hobby even though I know what I provide for these fish is nowhere near the experience they would have had in the wild. It is lawsuits like this that threaten the freedoms that we have to express what we enjoy. Although it may be offensive to some to throw a dead octopus onto the ice, even though it was going to get chopped up and eaten anyway, it is still there right. Do I agree with the tradition? No, I think it is pretty pointless but this lawsuit is as pointless.
 

jellyman

O. vulgaris
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86
#11
Jean;119805 said:
Actually that's not strictly true, many of us do care! I find it totally offensive to toss the corpse of an animal around (whether it be an octopus a dog or whatever). We try very hard to teach our students to be respectful of the specimens they work with in the lab and I see no reason why sports people shouldn't have the same respect.

Just because inverts are not legally considered animals (interestingly squid, octopus, crabs and rock lobster are under NZ legislation!) doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated with respect.

Whether or not the lawsuit is going to waste money is to some extent up to Patrick, (although I assume the courts would have something to say as well). I agree it's going to be a hard one to prove but the same can be said of many lawsuits which ended up being landmark cases.

respectfully

J

It is hypocritical to state on one hand it is not alright to treat animals poorly and on the other hand have students cut them up. None of the specimens you are using volunteer. You are talking degrees of cruelty. Please do not take that the wrong way, I feel as humans we need to use animals for research and testing. In the end it will not only help us but it will hopefully help the animal.

I really hope they do not pass legislation on Lobsters because I love the TV show the Deadliest Catch!!!
 

DWhatley

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#12
jellyman;119816 said:
I really hope they do not pass legislation on Lobsters because I love the TV show the Deadliest Catch!!!

Humm, I don't think lobster laws would effect Deadliest Catch but it might effect my annual lobster dinner :hmm:
 

monty

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#14
Thanks for toning it down a bit, jellyman.

I've tried to look at this from a few different perspectives. I think most people would be offended by throwing a dead dog or cat or dolphin or seal onto the ice, and probably even most dead food animals like chicken, cow, lamb, or pig. For some reason, I see less problem with tossing a fish, I'm not sure why, and I guess most people lump octos in with fish. I'm not sure there's a lot to be gained, or a solid legal standing, for a lawsuit on the subject, but I can imagine an indirect gain of bringing it to the attention of the media that octopuses are animals that are kept as pets, that have personalities, and are perhaps worthy of similar respect.

There are some countries that give cephalopods the same protections as vertebrates with respect to humane treatment, and there are some research institutions that treat them as "honorary vertebrates" in the U.S. even though they're not legally required to.

I think the "invertebrate" classification is not really an appropriate measure, anyway... if, rather than whether an animal has a backbone, we use number of neurons as the criterion (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_by_number_of_neurons ) then an octopus should be treated with more respect than a cat. I'm pretty sure that if people were chucking dead cats onto the ice at hockey games, a lot more people than Patrick would be filing lawsuits.

I also think there are some qualitative differences between using animals for legitimate research purposes, so I disagree that it's hypocritical to "have students cut them up" and yet object to this hockey thing. It seems to be a fairly accepted norm that use of animals for research is more acceptable than use for food, pets, or entertainment, and that any of those should be done humanely and respectably. Throwing animal corpses around for entertainment is somewhat frowned upon in general, so it does seem weird that octopuses and fish are somehow not worthy of this respect. In any case, researchers also have well-defined standards of treatment to which they are supposed to adhere, so it's not really a fair comparison.

I'm not sure whether a lawsuit is the ideal method to pursue this; it does seem a bit quixotic and will require court time, but it also is not as frivolous as a lot of lawsuits that I hear about (and even one I wasted 2 weeks on jury duty for.)
 

jellyman

O. vulgaris
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86
#16
dwhatley;119825 said:
That and the last I saw, king crabs were the item of the crazed frozen fishermen.
True enough. There is a show called Lobsterman. That's pretty good too but deadliest Catch is better.
 

Patrick1948

Larval Mass
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May 31, 2008
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6
#17
Goal of Lawsuit

The reason I filed the lawsuit, was to have the court issue an order to Christopher Ilitch, to publicly state that methods will be implemented to guarantee that no real octopus bodies will be brought into the arena in the future. Every time I remember the man twirling the octopus like a lasso, it turns my stomach.
Octopus are caught for only 3 reasons: 1, food, 2, scientific research, and for pets. Not to be killed an their bodies used for our amusement.
If anyone is interested in this, you can contact me directly:
peewee_91762@yahoo.com
 

Keith

Vampyroteuthis
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Jun 5, 2008
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406
#18
i forget where it was posted, but most of the lawsuits ive seen are basing thier cases off of one thing. apparently they have to have been refrigerated for 24 hours+ previous to sale. i may be quoting that wrong. man the red wings are screwed. theyre about to get hit with a lot of lawsuits. im surprised nobody addressed this earlier since its been around for a few years.
 

Tintenfisch

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#19
I watched part of Deadliest Catch once and had to turn it off; the sight of them hauling up hundreds to thousands of deep-sea crabs was too tragic for me. Made me feel sick.

:twocents:
 

jellyman

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#20
Tintenfisch;120042 said:
I watched part of Deadliest Catch once and had to turn it off; the sight of them hauling up hundreds to thousands of deep-sea crabs was too tragic for me. Made me feel sick.

:twocents:
Really?? What do you eat? And in all seriousness I'm really interested. Everything we eat wheter it is farmed like cows or harvested like king crab is at the simplest form alot of life being prepared for human consumption. Those crabs have been being harvested for decades and due to the strict quota enforcement some of the largest numbers are being produced today. This is truely one example of how to properly farm the ocean.
 

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