Kooah - O.briareus

I am guessing that you may know who posted these clips of captive babies?



I have been keeping a fairly dense 10gal. rotifer culture going for months now and strain some every morning to feed my 120g sps tank. It's not too difficult to maintain, and we all know bbs are easy.
I wish you luck!
 
Most unfortunately bbs are a proven definite no with octopuses but I had good luck with the mercs and pipette feeding cyclop-eeze. Since JoeCeph did not have any luck with a fully stocked pod tank (Conanny) and saw the young bitting (but not obviously eating) each other, I am thinking they need larger food. When they were large enough not to become food, I kept live shore shrimp in the nets and the mercs would hunt them but not daily. I keep thinking shrimp hatchlings and I may try to keep a group of peppermint shrimp secluded in the bottom of one net to see if they will produce young (IF I can secure the shrimp, otherwise the octos will become food, peps are vicious). Pipefish young are likely a good food source but finding a couple of pairs and keeping them alive in the bottom of a breeder net would be difficult. Ceph seems to think live food is a must to get past the two month (and particularly the two week) barrier. Suggestions are welcomed, and I will look into the rotifer culture. (the videos are not familiar but A.aculeatus is a small egg, pelagic hatchling and has different hunting techniques).

I think water movement may be part of the key. I kept a power head blowing on the merc nets and am concocting a couple of experimental water movement evironments (one being a foot bath).
 
For flow, maybe a diy kreisel - that keeps a vertical circular constant motion... I believe used for baby seahorses, but could be adapted for anything I imagine.
One here:
Another:

I think that rotifers are smaller than bbs. Maybe something in the Florida Aqua Farms Plankton Culturing Manual you could try to culture?
 
I am just starting to think about (and have put out a call for ideas) live food possibilities. Unfortunately, my budget is close to zero (unemployed and have been for over a year but not for want of trying, tough market and tougher when you are considered over the big hill). I've played with some Kreisel ideas in the past and may drag out some I tried with the horses but flow will be more for the food than for the benthic young. I am thinking shrimp fry are a good start if I can come up with something and can get enough production. I am still thinking about pipes (the mandarin loved them as I was madly trying to get them into a net and away from the parent as well) but have some difficulty with feeding them even if I did find a pair or a male with eggs. Additionally, I would have to feed bbs so keeping them in the same system as the octos would be a water quality issue in addition to the octos eating food that won't let them survive.

Keep the suggestions coming! Creativity here is a good idea. I should have many to experiment with but only a very short time to find something initially successful.
 
I have written Paul to ask what his biggest pods are as I am thinking larger food is going to be more appropriate. I know Ceph and others warn against brine (but that Roy has used them in combination with other things for the Blue Rings) but I failed to ask about the age of the food they used. With dwarf seahorses, new hatch (less than 12 hours old) are used almost exclusively because their egg sacks contain viable food (not the shrimp themselves) and I may try using them in one of my containers for the first week or so (if I get that far).
 
Egg Photo Update - hearts

Kooah blocked and then unblocked my view on her own this week. I think the new extra dark spot is the primary heart. Interestingly, the spots were not apparent (the eyes are always visible now) when I initially looked into the den. When I peak in, she usually gets more active with her egg tending and more color and features start to show on the eggs if I continue to watch and use the camera (that has a green focus beam). She does not seem to be annoyed (no squirting, ink or blocking of my view) but is more active moving the eggs around with her arms.

I find it interesting that she moved the rock she put infront of the cave and it makes me wonder if she gets a little bored/lonely and is willing to accept harmless voyerism (or maybe she just used the rock to block another entrance she felt was more vunerable :hmm:).

I cannot see with my eyes what the camera can capture and keep trying different angles. How much detail I can get on "film" depends on Kooah's position and the time of day. There is a little sunlight in the early evening on the left side of the tank and if Kooah allows it through by moving her body I can get better photos than at any other time. In the evening I often see her far to the right of the eggs and not touching them so I think she may use her body to limit the sunlight (or just takes a rest when it is dark).

Unfortunately, she may have completely stopped eating. This is the first time she has declined food for two days in a row. We will continue to offer her food in hopes it is only a waning appetite and not a complete end to her nutrition intake.
 

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Paul Sachs gave me a call today in reply to my email about food possibilities. He can get me very small silver sides from someone that breeds them and he is going to send me a small freshwater crustatean (daphnia magna) to grow out. I am getting the daphnia shipped on Monday to attempt a culture but will wait until hatching on the silver sides as probably some amphipods as well. I am trying to collect whatever pods I find on my filters and coral them in two tanks that have removable filters for ease of capture and am getting a plankton mix (netted "stuff") when Kara next goes seahorse hunting. In one of my detached environments (bare tank) I will also try adding a small amount of egg white based on some thoughts about pelagic young from another member.
 
Egg Photo Update - Chromatophores

This is the first time I have seen the typical chromatophore dots (vs the slight pink color shown in the prior photo). Enlarge the first photo and look at the top egg to see the red dots.

If you enlarge the second photo twice (click on the thumbnail and then again on the picture) and scroll to find the same egg you can clearly see an arm.

Kooah is eating again.

Earlier today she was positioned to the right of the egg mass so that her eye was watching out through the opening. She did not acknowledge my movements (by changing color, pattern or moving an arm) and her eye was very dilated which makes me think she is losing her sight.
 

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Kooah using mantle to keep eggs in motion

I have seen Kooah use her arms and siphon to keep her eggs in motion (initially, I would see her let them be still but not in recent weeks) using both her arms and her siphon. I realized yesterday that she uses a third method (I probably have seen this on other occassions without recognizing what she was doing) by placing her mantle under the eggs and breathing heavily to get full extension and collapse with her mantle. I know some octos (egg count/size might be a determining factor for using this method) will also bring the eggs into the gill slits to use breathing for stimulation/cleaning but the position of the eggs would not allow me to see this if it is also a method she employs. Using breathing to stimulate the eggs may help account for the stretched out look of both the mantle (which could be just from egg production) and siphon in a post brood female.


You will have to look closely at the video to see her position but knowing what you are looking for may help envision what I was seeing.

 
D, that was awesome. It reminds me of the heavy breathing that "Ozzy" did the whole time I had her, I'm sure she was removed from a clutch of eggs. I thought it was because she was old or in distress, but maybe it's just brooding behavior.
 
from tank talk:
Lmecher: I hope to see babies in breeder nets soon D. This should be interesting.

Looking back at some of the journals, Sulley's hatched at 7 weeks after Tuck went into her den, Conanny's (also briareus) and Trapper (mercatoris) were 10 weeks and I am hoping for the longer time (Kooah is at 6 weeks) as my live food supply is not ready (I do have a variety of frozen and a few pods I can gather). I expect to set up the nets (still waiting on two more that I ordered) and miscellaneous tank configurations on Sunday to be prepared to put them somewhere if they hatch earlier rather than later.
 

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