a reply.
Isnt it interesting that the subject everyone here has discussed, the difficult dillema of confronting the issues relevant to everyone involved in every discipline centred on animal husbandry, has raised such a series of different responses.
Forget for a moment the insults, the reprisals, all the off topic threads that flew between everyone here; I have seen anger, ridicule, humour, reasoned debate backed up with published papers and quotation from the learned and those in the know. There has been indignance and annoyance that those who oppose keeping animals in captivity have raised their heads and caused more irritation once again. A kind of resignation and stoicism that you all are having to slowly explain to yet another animal rights activist and having to dust off your collected portfolio of tried and tested rebuttals for those people who simply do not understand what your 'hobby' is all about!!
Well I want to tell you all something.
PAKOC is a joke. A laugh, not serious.
As the person who is a 'serious academic from Dorset who's interest is only 'reading' he does not exist. Pakoc is not, as someone suggested, a South American demon but stands for "People Against Keeping Octopuses in Captivity". PAKOC, get it. Not only am I not against keeping Octopuses in captivity but I am a Zoologist who spends his life keeping many different animals and even designing commercial displays and collecting the inmates.
And I have hopefully brought something to your notice that may make some of you stop for a moment and think. Two or three things really.
1. Everyone, including Tony (who I wholeheartedly apologise to for suggesting he was an idiot as I apologise to Greg, I just took two quotes at random to 'spice' things up a bit as part of the 'stuffy academic' personna.
) instantly reacted aggressively in defense of their right to use humour and banter at any time in response to a question or point of view. It is ironic that this entire post was based on a misdirection and on my own humour. I wonder if, when the joke is on you, you will be quite as quick to defend this.
And also on the same point, where would someone, who may well actually believe what I was spouting about, go to have a serious debate. I think (and no, surely you spotted how ridiculous PAKOC had become when he suggested that he become a moderator) you should consider the person behind the point of view. It may be that there are people who do not respond to your 'style' who have a contribution to make to your site and who feel there is not an appropriate medium to engage in constructive discourse. (Why not an entirely serious message board for serious discussion where everyone knows everything other than serious discussion is banned. That might be a forum that would become a focus for furthering the extremely 'academic' points that perhaps now do not have a natural home at tomno) Just a thought anyway.
2. You do keep animals in captivity. You do not always remember the issues that carries as baggage. It is not enough to simply chuck some throw away comments onto the issue and then get back to your hobby or profession. Everyone needs to think about the issues that what we do raises. Yes you do take animals from captivity. You do impact on the reef and that is indefensible. Remember that I do not, now that I have come out (and I don't mean that in a homosexual way), advocate what PAKOC was so arrogantly ranting about at the beginning. So I do not try to defend it. People do buy an octopus and see it die and get another etc. The whole point of this post and the subsequent thread is exactly that. PAKOC was able to make these statements because unlike a real animal rights objector, I have kept animals and I know what makes us uncomfortable.
I suggest that we choose to defend our position in another way. Step over the counterpoints that can be fired back, the "ah, but...." tactic.
Use evidence and results. How many peole have bred Octopus. How many are being reared. How many are being bought. What numbers are being imported. How many members are currently attempting to work on breeding, rearing, disease control etc. Collate the results of the collective body of expertise that resides here and turn it into a tool, a weapon, to justify what you all are doing. Use it to say "This is what we are doing because we care about these animals. There will not be a stop to the exploitation until like minded people like us develop ways to render it unnecessary and unprofitable. I get the feeling that there are many willing footsoldiers out there who would be delighted to take part in such a survey and join in some serious work. Maybe concentrate, in groups, on a certain species. Have groups that are working on one particular species. Share specimens etc. I'm not suggesting that this is not already happening but it is not happening on a scale that makes any impact.
3 And finally.
I brace myself for your fury.
I have chained myself on the steps of the alter and cower as the storm passes over, taking the demon PAKOC on his way to the depths of the underworld from whence he came. And the great nine legged biped squats on the edge of oblivion and ponders the carnage that has erupted from his bowels and washed this place with fetid aroma. I am cleansed and enlightened and my new brethren embrace me as a kindred sole. I am reborn though tarnished forever with the blight that is my name, PAKOC.