Keeping multiple blue rings together?

Discussion in 'Octopus Care' started by Venom, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. Venom

    Venom Cuttlefish Registered

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    just wondered if anyone had any experience keeping more than one blue ring in a single tank?
    We're setting up a new display here at the zoo and the tank will be approx 120-130 gal and I was wondering about maybe keeping 2-3 in there together.
    Anyone tried it?
    Thoughts?
    Thanks,

    -V
     
  2. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    I've kept other pygmies together in 75 and 125's, and it worked out o.k. Hard to say with blue rings, have only kept those individually.
    Post some pics of the display !

    greg
     
  3. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    I haven't heard of it being done, but that maybe more because the aquarists don't want to put hands into a whole tank of these suckers! We keep multiple O. warringa together, there is always a tussle to sort out dominance but they sort it out in the end (nonfatally!!). I guess if you try you'd need to keep a close eye on the tank (perhaps out of the public view as mass cannibalism seems to upset visitors!) and see what happens, with nets at the ready to intervene if required. I'd love to hear how you get on!!!

    J
     
  4. aximbigfan

    aximbigfan GPO Registered

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    hmmm.. i wounder why:confused:....


    chris
     
  5. AZSUN

    AZSUN Larval Mass Registered

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    It is not a problem in a 100+ gal tank to house 2 or 3. I have 5 in a 180. You understand the shortness of their life cycle? If they lay eggs and they hatch the care-takers understand that the small one are as bad as an adult, they may not even see them.
    I hope however being a zoo you explain to your visitors how deadly these really are.
     
  6. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    I agree, this is a fabulous public education opportunity! Although we don't hold blue rings (too cold and not native), visitors ALWAYS ask about blue rings while they're watching our octi's , they seem fascinated by this small critter that can kill with a single bite!!

    Cheers

    J
     
  7. pipsquek

    pipsquek Wonderpus Supporter

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  8. mosogama

    mosogama Blue Ring Supporter

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    I often see blue rings in the wild down at the local rock pool. Next time I see one I'll make sure I have my camera handy and take some shots. I have only ever observed blue rings by themselves, never in a couple or group.
     
  9. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Same with our midgets, but they seem to have a strategy for dealing with group situations (mind you so do our big species..........along the lines of "if it's smaller than you EAT IT!")

    J
     
  10. aximbigfan

    aximbigfan GPO Registered

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    yeah, octos are solitary creatues. i wouldet put two, especilly blue rigs which can kill eatch other i a secound, together.


    chris
     
  11. Jean

    Jean Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Hi Chris,

    Not all are completely solitary, we have 3 in a tank at the moment. The pygmy or midget varieties seem able to sort out a living arrangement. Although I wouldn't do it unless you have a large tank with lots of potential dens. and keep a close watch on them initially!!!!

    As for the bite octi venom doesn't work on others of the same species! They kill each other by strangulation followed by cannibalism!!! So the main thing with BR's is to watch they don't envenom their keeper!!!!!

    J
     
  12. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    wow, so blue ring venom doesn't work even if it's injected into the bloodstream of another blue ring? I wonder how it resists it... TTX is a really broad neurotoxin; it blocks action potentials in pretty much any neuron I've heard of, including squid giant axons-- do blue rings have modified sodium channels in their axons that are immune to TTX blocking?:bluering:
     
  13. aximbigfan

    aximbigfan GPO Registered

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    yeah, onother good point. the venum prolly doesnt effoct other blue rings becouse they already have it in them...


    chris
     
  14. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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  15. oceanbound

    oceanbound O. bimaculoides Registered

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    actually from what i have heard the toxin is a biproduct of the bacteria which live in the "rings" of the spotted octopus. as opposed to residing inside the creatures themselves
     
  16. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    It is produced by bacteria, but it's not near the rings; I believe the bacteria are "cultured" in the salivary glands: see http://www.thecephalopodpage.org/bluering2.php

    This also answers my original question:

    Does anyone (perhaps Roy, who wrote the article, hint hint) know any more details on this? I know there are a lot of people interested in studying the biochemistry of ion channels, and the evolutionary genetics of their development, so it seems like it would be very interesting to learn how these octos have TTX-proofing. On the other hand, most researchers prefer to avoid working with animals that can easily kill them...

    I'm actually emailing a friend who studies the biochemistry of ion channels to see if their community knows about this adaptation... If no one has looked into it, this seems like a potentially very fruitful tool for understanding the mechanics of ion channels....
     
  17. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    Gack! I hope they have oxygen and ventilators on standby whenever they use this treatment!!! I guess if someone is in really, really severe pain it might be worth the risk, but it seems like a very, very, very dangerous thing to do, and since it just blocks all signals on all nerves (except cardiac, I guess) outside the blood-brain barrier, it rather by definition producees the same amount of paralysis as it does numbness... it's not targetted to the nerves that signal pain at all over, say, the nerves that let you breathe.
     
  18. aximbigfan

    aximbigfan GPO Registered

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    so if the blue ring octo didnt have rings than it would just be a sweet little non-deadlypus?


    chris
     
  19. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    Well, according to this researcher, Dr. Peter A. V. Anderson...from his website http://www.ufbi.ufl.edu/Dept/Faculty/AndersonPAV.html

     
  20. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    so many different opinions, so little time !
    I'm still not totally sold on the whole "bacteria" thing...let's wait and see how this whole thing pans out.
     

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