Is this the real Magnapinna?

Fin (ventral), mantle and funnel-locking cartilages

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May I ask a stupid question about the skin sculpturing? Thanks.

What's it for? It reminds me a little of the dimpling on a golf ball, and it occurs to me that the same sort of thing might be useful in reducing the drag on the squid (by generating a small amount of turbulence that delays separation of the boundary layer).
 
The same argument has been applied to Lepidoteuthis; a golf ball without dimples doesn't travel anywhere near as far with the same drive as one with dimples (this is why golf balls are dimpled) ... and no, I haven't the patience or time for golf (maybe I should take it up?).

There doesn't appear to be any cartilaginous tubercule-like structure associated with those dimples, but the same dimple-like structures are also present on the mantle musculature of some onychoteuthid squid (where they seem to be associated with actual blisters/papilla in the skin). Perhaps we're looking at a very abraded surface, and in life the animal would have been quite papillose.

... questions, questions, questions ... I wish I had some answers.
 
Hi Steve,
Great pics.

At first view does not look like Echinoteuthis to me. But let me check my notes and I will be back to you.

Nevetheless, some large "mastigoteuthid-like" squids, develop in "older stages", some kind of reticulated, cartilaginous tissue on the skin. So I think is a common feature in meso/bathypelagic squids. I have seen that in other species. If you could take a SEM photo will be a good reference for the future.

The armature remind me a grimalditeuthid, you are right, but also the "subconus" in the ventral view where the gladius extends (? clear) :roll:
is very gelatinous, uncommon in mastigoteuthids.

Well, like in pocker, I examined one very similar specimen from south of Japan and I tried to placed it into the Chiroteuthidae, but I was not convinced completely with the main taxonomic features. So I named species "Mastigoteuthis" sp F., 1993 (just to put any name). Later I decided to placed it as a link between Chiro and Mastigo families. This could be a new family, under the Chiroteuthoidea (?).

At generic level could be anything, but at family level I will put together, as I said before, Mastigo/Chiro as a single family, so it could fit in between.

Well, too much speculating, but I will check my old notes and I will bring some info on my specimen from Japan.
Great squid, Steve! Congratulations!
Alejandro
 
Hola,

This is a Magnapinna n.sp. The photo is the same specimen in ventral and dorsal views. The full length in no more than 80mm.
I really believe that Magnapinnidae is a group with small size species.

Any question? 8)
Alejandro

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That's Magnapinna for sure!! WOW! Nice find!!!

Alejandro, it looks like we have a collab paper on that NZ 'Chiroteuthid/Mastigoteuthid' thing doesn't it; I'm glad that it is transitional between these two presently accepted families, as I really did scratch my head trying to accommodate it. It resembled a specimen you attributed to Echinoteuthis in 1994 (Salcedo-Vargus, M.A.; Okutani, T. 1994. New classification of the squid family Mastigoteuthidae (Cephalopoda: Oegopsida). Venus 53(2):119-127), and it was based largely on that illustration (Fig. 4) that I made the provisional identification.

I can't wait to defrost this other brute we have here ... it is weird! Following your 1994 classification, it fits in the genus Magnoteuthis.

I quite like the 1994 classification - I found it very easy to follow (a very nice paper), but got a little confused later on when the generic and specific allocation/identifications changed. You are more than welcome to start up a new thread titled something to do with 'mastigoteuthid/chiroteuthid lineages', and update us on recent generic diagnoses/species identifications/allocations. It would help immensely. I do not like lumping all of these things in the genus Mastigoteuthis (as is presently advocated on TOL, mainly because of the systematic confusion out there). You never know who reads these threads; it would be great to have open discussion on generic relationships and species identifications.

Cheers
Steve
 
Alejandro Salcedo said:
I really believe that Magnapinnidae is a group with small size species.

Any question? 8)
Alejandro

Here's one. Can you sex these things (juveniles)? If small-sized then there should be apparent reproductive strucures - either the nidamental glands or penis should be visible. I still think that the subadult thing (original post) looks like this .... but I'm nuts.

Did yours have filaments at the arm tips, and crowded suckers along the arms? I'd love to see an illustration of sucker-ring armature, gladius and beak details, as this would really help narrow the thing down. I asked Dick about this on their juveniles; neither beaks nor gladius were dissected out.

Very soon I'll take the beaks and gladius out of one of the specimens here (original post) and put them online; it would be interesting to see what you make of it.
Cheers
O
 
Hi,

I will post some illustrations of the main taxonomic characters. I Did not dissected the specimen because is the only one, and for type designation I decided to leave it like that. But the gladius was quite clear, so I can guess the shape. And yes, the extremes of the arms have filaments and they are very crowded with suckers. I will scan the illustration this weekend and post them.

Thank you for the option to put together all this mess of this families, I am sure you can provide a lot of help. I was meant to put a lot of new info in the TOL, information that I had accumulated in the last 6 years. But I havenot had the chance to sit quietly and write down the ideas.

Will be interesting to put together more information. If an explotion of genera happend, well we can not force the group to fit in the Mastigoteuthis s.l. isn't it?

I am sorry If my paper of '94 clashes with the one in '97, just that I got a lot of new information and I wanted to clarify the apparent contradiction
but, it is time to do it NOW!

Till next,
Alehandro
 
Hi there,

I am posting drawing of the Magnapinna. The specimen, juvenile is 45 mm ML (excluding "tail" or conus of gladius).

I hope this give you a better idea of the specimen.

Cheers,
Alehandro

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