Is this the real Magnapinna?

Steve O'Shea

TONMO Supporter
Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
4,670
Reaction score
24
Fresh back from another gallavant around New Zealand we've picked up a few new squid from the New Zealand region. Albeit damaged, the attached is most unusual and could well be the true Magnapinna (rather than the 'mystery squid' with the 10 long poorly differentiated appendages (8 assumed to be arms, 2 tentacles).

There's a suite of other taxa in the collection that represent first records for New Zealand - a few that have me scratching my head. Quite sensational material! We've also got a fully mature Taningia and 2 more Architeuthis, something that could well be a massive, mature Echinoteuthis, and some absolutely bizarre Chiroteuthis specimens.

I'm posting online a few images of the ?Magnapinna, but the identification may change as more detailed work is undertaken on relationships between this specimen and others referred to Mastigoteuthis (s.l.).

O





 

Steve O'Shea

TONMO Supporter
Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
4,670
Reaction score
24
The buccal membranes attach DDVV (to the dorso-lateral side of arms 1 and 2 and to the ventro-lateral face of arms 3 and 4). The suckers are biserial on each of the arms basally and distally, but the distal half to quarter of each of arms 1, 2 and 3 has the suckers crowded in 3 to 4 rows - they secondarily assume biseriality for the distal-most quarter.

The tentacles have been lost at capture. The dorsal mantle length is 153 mm, the specimen an immature female. The fins are extremely muscular and thick, very Taningia-like in appearance. No filaments are apparent at the ends of any arms (characteristic of larval/paralarval Magnapinna). There are no hooks on any arms, and the arms are short and muscular (unlike the inordinately long arms of the deep-sea brute referred to ?Magnapinna).

Anyone want to guess at what we have here? It could be some bizarre form of a previously described Mastigoteuthis (s.l.) species .... but it doesn't look right to me.
O
 

Jean

Colossal Squid
Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
4,218
Reaction score
138
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
My personal favourite is the uninformative shot! It looks so like some I've taken (OK lots :( ) and chucked in the back of the cupboard !!!

But what a great animal! looking forward to hearing more reports on it (& all the others!!)

J
 

Alejandro Salcedo

Pygmy Octopus
Registered
Joined
Oct 15, 2003
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Is not Magnapinna

Hello,
I just subscribe to the list. I am writing in reply to the Magnapinna subject.

I examined the photos posted by Steve O. about the specimen that seems to be Magnapinna. Actually, is not.

It is a member of the Mastigoteuthidae, but definitely is a new species,
and why not, a new genus (Osheateuthis) Why not.

I have data from another specimen also from New Zealand waters with the same characteristics, this is a male of 96mm ML, fully mature. The main feature to separate it from other mastigoteuthid species is of course the size and arrangement of suckers, mainly in the distal third.

One more specimen, very damaged (only head and arms) examined in the NHM in London have the same features, I do not have the data but I suspect that is from the Atlantic Ocean.

Well, if you think my data are useful we can put them together to described the new taxa.

Regards,
Alejandro
 

Melissa

Larger Pacific Striped Octopus
Supporter
Joined
Apr 3, 2003
Messages
1,137
Reaction score
0
Welcome, Alejandro! Please post pictures of your specimens!

Melissa
 

Steve O'Shea

TONMO Supporter
Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
4,670
Reaction score
24
Hi Alejandro. Thanks for posting (for those that don't know Alejandro, he has published extensively on Mastigoteuthidae, and actually lives in Christchurch, New Zealand). Nice to have you aboard the SS www.Tonmo.com.

Are you aware of other species of 'Mastigoteuthis' (s.l.) with the same distribution (number of rows) of suckers on the distal portion of the arms? This, and the general muscular nature of the brute, lead me to believe it was something 'different', but instead of referring to it as a new species I made the suggestion that it was Magnapinna (as the adult/subadult of Magnapinna was unknown). The enormous fins of the larval/juvenile Magnapinna are similar to those of this particular species.

It is just about impossible to see how the larval/juvenile form attributed to Magnapinna is conspecific with the deep-sea long-armed form tentatively atrributed to this genus, without intermediate-sized specimens. There is no way that the New Zealand specimens are the same as this deep-water long-armed form (this I know). Have any long-armed brutes been found (that you are aware of?), or any intermediate-sized 'Magnapinna' (a pic would be dynamite).

I've two other 'Mastigoteuthis' species here (both await description from NZ waters), one is 'giant sized' (and frozen), the other is large bodied (pickled many years ago); both are known from single specimens only. I'm still trying to get my head around the Mastigoteuthis, Idioteuthis, Magnoteuthis, Echinoteuthis business (the species allocation did change throughout a number of papers); I don't believe that all/most should be lumped together in Mastigoteuthis (as on TOL).

I showed the pics (attached in earlier posting) of the thing attributed to ?Magnapinna to Dick Young; he didn't think it was Magnapinna (s.s.) either and suggested M. hjorti (but it was just a guess, and I don't think he was too happy with the suggestion); the number of sucker rows on those arms was a real problem. Does your Atlantic specimen have tentacles/clubs? Have you illustrations of gladius morphology, beaks, sucker-ring dentition?

Quite a few of the macrobenthic/benthopelagic invertebrates found in NZ waters have NZ/North Atlantic distributions; this is not without parallel.

Looking forward to some discussion here
Cheers
Steve
 

Jean

Colossal Squid
Supporter
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
4,218
Reaction score
138
Location
Dunedin, New Zealand
Hi Alejandro

If you're down in Dunedin, Look us up! Kerry & I are always keen to meet other ceph enthusiasts! That goes for anyone else of course :D It's just that Alejandro is on the MAINLAND! Just call the lab or aquarium (it's in the book) or pm us if you're coming down!

Cheers

J
 

Alejandro Salcedo

Pygmy Octopus
Registered
Joined
Oct 15, 2003
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Hi Melissa

Sorry, but I just have some notes and measurements and a bad drawing. But I remember all
details.
Alejandro

Melissa said:
Welcome, Alejandro! Please post pictures of your specimens!

Melissa
 



Forum statistics

Threads
19,591
Messages
203,047
Members
8,482
Latest member
Pturski

Monty Awards

TONMOCON IV (2011): Terri
TONMOCON V (2013): Jean
TONMOCON VI (2015): Taollan
TONMOCON VII (2018): ekocak

About the Monty Awards
Top