Introducing me & my first Ceph

[Matt Chapman]

This guy has been with me for just over two weeks; I captured his first venturing out in my presence on video. (I spent 10+ weeks preparing the tank, with help from this site and the "Cephalapods" book, before he arrived, so I've been building up to this for a while. Very exciting.)

The supplier could not tell me where it came from or anything. I have my guess on species identification, but before I skew the results, I'd like to hear what others think. FTR, I'm keeping his tank at 78-80 deg. F. and he seem happy with that. He eats mostly hermit crabs, some shrimp, no fish yet, except for a small goldfish I saw them give to him at the fish shop.

Photos to follow soon.

Best,

Matt

 

[tonmo]

Excellent Matt, thanks for joining TONMO!

 

[corw314]

to you and your new ceph!!! Love the video and that you did research and set it up right for him. Beware of feeding goldfish though as you do not know if they were treated with copper. He looks very healthy and happy. Do you have a name?

 

[DWhatley]

Please don't feed fish. All LSF fish (fresh or salt) are a major and unnessary health risk. It should do well on thawed table shrimp, blue crab claws (you can feed the whole crab but the tank will fair much better with just the claws - we just pick throuh the live ones to find the loose laws and buy as many as we can find, then freeze them). Fiddler crabs are always accepted but won't be enough soon, assuming this is O.briareus as I suspect but a hard call from the video. More pictures please

 

[gjbarord]

Great to have you hear Matt! Sounds like you put in the proper amount of prep work for an octopus. D is probably right about the goldfish not being an ideal food item for octopus.

Greg

 

[Cuddlycuttlefsh]

Listen to D. Ceph or non-cephs whatever it may be, it usually has a negative impact. Also, never even try feeding salt-water fish freshwater goldfish or any other fresh water species. They have high amounts of sodium in their bodies that dehydrates the organism that ate it, posing as a potential for killing the organism. Feeder goldfish are also known to cause problematic liver problems to octopuses.

 

[beccalopod]

baddd assss

 

[Thales]

Listen to D. Ceph or non-cephs whatever it may be, it usually has a negative impact. Also, never even try feeding salt-water fish freshwater goldfish or any other fresh water species. They have high amounts of sodium in their bodies that dehydrates the organism that ate it, posing as a potential for killing the organism. Feeder goldfish are also known to cause problematic liver problems to octopuses.

While there may be issues feeding fresh water animals to salt water animals or the other way around, I don't think the high amounts of sodium is an issue. At work we routinely feed saltwater fish to freshwater animals and freshwater animals to saltwater animals. There may be problems with fatty acids depending on the prey item. There is a difference between crustacean to cephs all the time, raised whole generations of cuttles on fresh water shrimp.
D- are you referring to the potential copper issue?

 

[DWhatley]

D- are you referring to the potential copper issue?

Thales,
Yes, note I said fish from any LSF explicitly. With the exception of pollution concerns, pretty much anything they will eat that is directly wild caught is not likely to cause harm. Most fish stores buy their fish from wholesalers so even if they don't treat with copper in the store (both Petsmart and PetCo do here, direct questions asked of the dept mgrs) the wholesaler likely does as it is a common preventative used when housing too many fish in a small environment.

Please explain

There is a difference between crustacean to cephs all the time, raised whole generations of cuttles on fresh water shrimp.

I think a word or sentence is missing??? I am assuming you are saying that the FW glass shrimp make an acceptable alternative to the brackish grass shrimp (from prior discussions) but I am lost on the first part of the sentence. However, if I am correct in my guess from the little to be seen from the video, grass/glass shrimp are/will be no where near large enough for a proper meal

 

[Thales]

Totally sentence missing. Rob Toonen showed that freshwater crustaceans didn't have an extreme fatty acid difference from saltwater crustaceans, but fish did. So, feeding freshwater crustaceans seems fine. At work I get 1200 freshwater ghost shrimp a week (though I also get saltwater crangon for larger animals)for cephs and havent appeared to have a problem with everything from bandensis to metasepia to octos. They larger metasepia get fed 4 times a day to make up for the size of the prey and usually eat several at a 'sitting'.

I am on the fence about copper treated fish as food because there are so many examples of people feeding LFS fish to cephs without apparent problem. I've done it myself in a pinch, but guppies and mollies not goldfish. I think there are many questions that need to be addressed about copper before we can flatly say that all fish treated with it are problematic: How much does the fish actually uptake into its tissues? If any, how quickly does the fish rid itself of what it has uptaken? If people have reported problems and looked to copper as the problem, did they add the water the fish came in as well? That all said, I don't recommend fish, fresh or salt, as a staple food for cephs.

 

[gjbarord]

Great discussion! While there may be no definitive research on copper in food fish for cephs, the important point to take from this is that those types of fish should not be the primary source of food for cephs or the first choice.

Greg

 

[Jean]

We do find that our octopus do not do well on freshwater prey, they become quite lethargic and more prone to skin lesions and infections (even in young animals!), fortunately we have a good source of marine crabs on our doorstep!

And Matt!

 

[ceph]

O. briareus? Was it initially nocturnal?

I agree that fw fish are not a good idea. There is some evidence that feeding fw fish can lead to liver problems.

Rob Toonen is a respected source - if he says fw crustaceans are OK then they likely are. I've heard that fw crayfish work well.