I'm new and have questions. :D

BananaBoat

Larval Mass
Registered
#1
I'm thinking about getting a Wonderpus Octopus. I've had octopi before, and they've lived as long as expected. I'm wondering about prices, lifespan, minimal tank size(I know they're small), and what would be good to cover chord holes in the top of the tank. Thanks in advance. :D
 

CaptFish

Colossal Squid
Staff member
Moderator
#2
:welcome: to TONMO

unfortunately the natural environment of the wunderpus is in great danger has been destroyed by irresponsible commercial fishing. The number of wunderpuses out there is a mystery, so basically there is a good chance they are endangered and we don't even know it. In addition they have a very low shipping survival rate.That being said here on TONMO the keeping wunderpuses, mimics, and bluerings(these because of the dangers) is not supported.

we'd love to hear about some of your other octopuses!
 

BananaBoat

Larval Mass
Registered
#3
Thanks for the greeting! I know that shipping survival rate is low for all octopi, but my LFS had a mimic in just last week; it was reserved, of course, for another customer. I could have them order one, and they'll look for a healthy subject at the wholesale, or wherever they can get it.I was thinking about a mimic, but there's something about the wonderpus colors that entices my desire. I'm open to suggestions, though. Do you know of another species that is similar in structure and pattern? Thanks for your help. :)
 

CaptFish

Colossal Squid
Staff member
Moderator
#4
My suggestion is don't get either. Get another species, one that is not endangered.
 

SabrinaR

Larger Pacific Striped Octopus
Registered
#5
Sorry but we dont support the capture and keeping of any of those octopuses. They most times even under experienced care do not survive in the home aquarium and like Capt said, believed to be endangered.

There are many wonderful octopuses out there that arent endangered though and we would all be more than willing to help you in their care.
 

Joe-Ceph

Haliphron Atlanticus
Supporter
#6
Can someone point me to any reliable data that support the often repeated notion that wonderpus is "endangered"? I've read that because there has been no scientific population survey, that we should play it safe, and never buy a wonderpus, so as not to create a demand. Has there been any data to justify changing the message from "let's play it safe" to definitive statements like "they are endangered"?
 

CaptFish

Colossal Squid
Staff member
Moderator
#7
Has there been any data to justify changing the message from "let's play it safe" to definitive statements like "they are endangered"?
Data...nope. Just the advice of one the foremost experts on the subject. One of our octo docs, Kat I believe, did a great post about it. but i can never find it.

Its also in the guidlines of TONMO that we do not support the keeping of these species.
Guidelines for Cephalopod Purchase or Aquisition:

We recommend purchasing tank-bred or aquacultured cephalopods, when available. Rescued cephalopods, whether from a trap or from live rock, are also recommened.

Wild-caught cephalopods, caught by natural means (no chemicals) are acceptable.

Capturing a cephalopod yourself is recommended only for experienced keepers, and you need to check whether you need a permit.

Do not purchase cephalopods whose populations are threatened or whose status is not known, such as wunderpus and mimic.

Do not purchase blue-ring octopuses because of their potentially lethal venom.
 

SabrinaR

Larger Pacific Striped Octopus
Registered
#8
The only time I would think that there would be an exception is when one is gotten by accident when ordering. Of course most suppliers charge high $$$ for mimics so its rare that this accident happens.

I personally think that the high mortality rate for captive mimics/wonderpus would be reason enough to not purchase them considering that most go for around 300$.
 

Joe-Ceph

Haliphron Atlanticus
Supporter
#9
I think it makes good sense to continue to publicly discourage people from buying these species, and I support that policy. The recommendation from one or two field scientists to protect these species came along with sound reasons: limited habitat and range, easily accessible to collectors, high prices (which strongly supports the claim of rarity), and the inability of rearing them in captivity (small egged).
That being said, I think that we have a responsibility to protect the integrity of Tonmo.com as a source of accurate information, and to protect the credibility of science and scientists by resisting the temptation to exaggerate. I think there's a real danger that the public will learn to distrust (and ignore) scientists if they too often compromise truth for the sake of any "greater good". When people read a blunt statement like "Get another species, one that is not endangered", and after a little looking discover that the truth is that there is reason to suspect that increased collecting pressure might be devastating, they will realize that they've been purposely misled, and be much more likely to ignore such statements in the future. In this way, exaggerations that erode the credibility of environmental warnings, puts all endangered animals at greater risk, and in the long run are counter productive. We've got to tell the truth, or we'll be ignored, and endangered animals will suffer.
 

CaptFish

Colossal Squid
Staff member
Moderator
#10
:roll:

If you'll read my initial approach was to state all the facts, I stated the population numbers are unknown, and it's best to treat them as endangered. The person, obviously didn't get it and then continued to ask TONMO for help with the species. He clearly didn't understand my more in depth explanation so I took the direct approach.
 

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