ID Request - New Bees Only

Discussion in 'ID Requests' started by DWhatley, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Frick and Frack? Cheech and Chong? Yin and Yang? :sagrin:

    I don't need an ID on these two but thought I would offer a place for some of our new/potential keepers to try to determine species. If you participate, put what you see that makes you decide on a species choice. There is method in my madness :bonk:. I am going to present at TONMOCON IV and have chosen hobbiest ID as my topic so I am looking for ideas on how a person new to octopuses sees the animal.

    These two have not arrived yet but will be here tomorrow morning. The photos are from the supplier. Enlarging the picture by clicking on it may be helpful

    Capture Location: FL Keys. Left: under a bridge, Right: top of a reef in shallow water
    Mantle Size: pinky fingernail on left, quarter size on right
     

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  2. neurobadger

    neurobadger Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    I'm not a potential keeper or an octopus newbie, but I need to hone my octopus identification skills.

    Octopus briareus?

    Reasons:
    -not got purpley eyes or eyespots
    -from Florida
    -could be hummelincki, but more likely it's a briareus .
     
  3. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Thanks, I'll comment on all guesses in a day or two in hopes of getting a few observations :sagrin:

    I would like a link to an octo with "purpley eyes" though. This is already proving to be helpful on other people's observations.
     
  4. iAlex

    iAlex Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    I'd say O. briareus because of the long arms and the green spots and eyes. IMO, the arms look to long to be a Hummelincki or Vulgaris. But, I'm just learning. :read: :wink:
     
  5. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    Briareus. I knew it the second the page loaded. Didn't even have to zoom in.
     
  6. OB

    OB Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    You're making it too easy for them, D! :)
     
  7. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm jealous!
     
  8. neurobadger

    neurobadger Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Purpley eyes make me think vulgaris.
     
  9. skywindsurfer

    skywindsurfer Architeuthis Registered

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    Oh come on OB,..it was really hard I promise. lol

    I'm sure if you were really new to this it would be harder. A year ago I wouldn't have known.
     
  10. Reef Geek

    Reef Geek O. vulgaris Supporter

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    I'd agree with Briareus though I don't see the spot on either side below the eyes. But the green coloring with the long arms matches up with what I have at home. Plus the locations jive with where they'd be.
     
  11. kpage

    kpage Wonderpus Supporter

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    Ah! You are doing a presentation on Hobbiest ID?! I really wish I could go. I remember talking to you about a quick ID clue page a while ago. Is there any way that TONMOCON presentations could be recorded or have like a live webcam or something for people who couldn't make it?
     
  12. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    Spots under the eyes are not a trait of braireus :wink:
     
  13. tat2spyder

    tat2spyder Blue Ring Registered

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    yeah im def a noobie. and other than the location of where it was collected i wouldn't have a clue as to how to identify this species. i would like to hear your presentation on how you identify these guys.
     
  14. Joe-Ceph

    Joe-Ceph Haliphron Atlanticus Supporter

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    I did a google search with "Octopus" and "green eyes" since that is the most striking feature in the photo. I was surprised that I didn't find a useful ID that way. The only way I know of to get an ID (if a google search fails) is to post pictures on Tonmo and ask, so I too would enjoy seeing the presentation.
     
  15. devi

    devi Blue Ring Registered

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    I'm very new and cheating a bit by using the ID post you put up before. From that I reckon Briareus cause of the peach mottling and luminous green spots.
    Any good?
     
  16. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I am getting some good ideas and will post my answer (not so much as to the species but why I would ID them this way) tomorrow. Sadly the older one did not make it through the day and I found her still in her open container when I came home with brissel worms nibbling on her arm tips. She was especially beautiful in real life and I am very sad. The tiny one disappeared on release (a good sign) and I have not located it yet. Neither ate (something I prefer to do before release). Now it is a two week waiting game on the little one.

    I am delighted that there is interest in my topic. Please continue to help me with what you, as new hobbyiests/non-keepers see when you look at the photos (multiple posts welcomed).

    If the response is positive to what I come up with, I will work on trying to put my outline and photos up on TONMO but I hope to see some of you in Washington!. @kpage, One day, I will play around with a database and a set of leading questions but I am still not good enough at this to attempt it (I have had the URL, octopusID.com for years with this in mind :roll:)
     
  17. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    O. briareus

    Thanks for the participation! I am by no means an expert at this but keep working at getting better and my talk at TONMOCON IV will be directed at helping the hobbiest look for identifying traits.

    I have found that sometimes elimination helps as much noting the positive. When available, I start with the location and list the animals we commonly see (keep in mind that there are over 300 species and there is always the chance the it won't be one of the animals we expect). The octos we see coming from FL are:
    O. briareus
    O. mercatoris
    O. hummelincki
    O. joubini (though only recently and seem more common in TX)
    O. vulgaris (and only a few)

    Starting with the larger animal and clearer photograph:

    Negatives:
    - Arm R3 gives prospective of arm to mantle ratio of about 5:1 that reduces the chance of the dwarfs and hummelincki (closer to 2.5:1)
    - There is no diagnostic eye spot, again discounting hummelincki (though sometimes it is not visible, it often would be under stress)
    - There is way too much webbing near the end of the arms for either dwarf or hummelincki.
    - The green around the eyes is seen in young briareus (initially quite blue) but is not as noticable in the mature animal. I am not sure how common this is in young octopuses in general since Monty (unknown species but definitely not briareus) and hummelincki will show green around the eyes even as adults but it is a dull green and not flurorescent.
    - The eyes are set up distinctively above the mantle, O. vulgaris eyes appear much more recessed
    - The ends of the suckers are peach where they display either white or blue/purple in hummelincki and brown in O.vulgaris

    Positives
    - The mottled peach is a trade mark pattern/color for O. brieareus
    - Not well seen even when blown up are the tiny white raised spots. O. briareus does not show much crypsis as far as height but can raise lots little white pimples all over its body, head and arms where the other larger animals raise scattered spikes or branchy appendages.
    - Something not seen but worth noting is an all over body green fluorescence that often shows in a flash photo and I suspect these were taken without flash.

    The photo of the smaller animal (now named Inka) shows most of the same traits and I immediately said O. briareus, however, when it arrived the arms were so spindley and the mantle so tiny I hesitated. Tonight I went through the photos I had taken of Cassy at 6 weeks and reaffirmed the call and am guessing Inka is just about this age.
     
  18. mucktopus

    mucktopus Haliphron Atlanticus Staff Member Moderator

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    Nice shots and great color patterns!
     
  19. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Kara is getting pretty good at trying to get enough in the photos for me to ID the octos :grin: and I am going to try to work in the necessity of a clear photo and telling attributes even though photographing in a pet store usually does not produce clear images (and most people use cell phones).
     
  20. neurobadger

    neurobadger Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    I'm glad to see the non-color identification clues - we have a ton of preserved specimens at the Smithsonian and color isn't 100% reliable in identifying an octopus anyway, even if it's an excellent tool most of the time.

    (Excellently enough, my supervisor, besides being an expert in squid, is also an expert in pelagic octopuses. I saw a Tremoctopus in a jar on the table and had to ask. I might browse the stacks a little more today and see what they have in terms of their Argonautoidea. We have profuse amounts of octopuses and sepioids that I'm probably never going to get to touch because all the specimens I'm dealing with are squid. Oh. Also. I'm gonna see if I can dig out some sepioids today, since I've mostly been touching squids, and only oegopsids at that since they're the only group of decapodiforms with enough family diversity to present a challenge.)
     

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