Id on octopus i am looking into

Discussion in 'ID Requests' started by simple, Dec 19, 2007.

  1. simple

    simple Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Hi, this is a picture of an octopus that i might buy, but i rather not buy until i get an id on it. Unfortunately, as is usual, the seller doesn't know were it came from. I attached a picture of it. The seller is in California, so it might be from around there but i don't see any eye spots that would suggest it's a bimac.
    Thanks
     

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  2. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    Uh, that octopus doesn't look too healthy. Its arms have that curlicue look and its right eye looks a little funny...
     
  3. simple

    simple Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    yea i thought that eye looks funny, they say that they have 10 in stock so i could ask for one who doesn't have the curlicue look though i don't know how well they will follow my instructions..Does anyone have any clue what species it is? I certainly dont..
     
  4. simple

    simple Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    ok the seller gave me more information on it.
    "brown octopus
    no blue eyespots
    72-76 degress
    eats snails, clams, chopped shrimp
    the head is about the size of a plum"
    my guess is vulgaris, but thats just a guess.
     
  5. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    no word on what ocean it came from? Vulgaris isn't native to California...

    It also looks pretty mature to me, and a mantle the size of a plum seems small for a vulgaris... The coloring doesn't look red enough to be rubsecens

    I'm not sure I have that great an eye for judging maturity, but if I'm right, if all 10 are the same size and batch, they could all be near the end of their lives (particularly with the curled arms)... Although Mr. Octopus, DHyslop's bimac, for example, lived a good long time with the "full adult" look (and that picture does remind me of pics of Mr. Octopus except for the lack of the bimac spots.)
     
  6. simple

    simple Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    well this is just the general picture the seller uses, but he says it is not the exact one i will get. He told me they have only had it for two weeks, and that it comes out in the day, and sometimes at night as well. He doesn't know were it came from but they keep it in relatively high temperatures, so my guess is that it is from the Atlantic, or maybe Indo-Pacific, but im not very knowledgeable at identifying octopuses so i wanted to get some expert input, well really any input at all would help.
     
  7. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Simple, four things to consider but no real help.

    If a nocturnal octopus is out during the day, there is a good chance it has a week or less to live (this has been true of all the mercs posted as well as from my own experience).

    The lack of webbing and plum sized mantle could indicate adult pygmy, however, if the color is true (if you take out the yellow from the eyes and mantle and make it more red it does not look quite so odd), it is not one I have seen on mine but the faint pattern is close and the curled up arm tips are common even at a young age and the quick tapering legs (the most suggestive) and eyes all are pygmy positive.

    This may be just a photo they took at one time or another of an octopus and not really representative of any they have in stock (very common). How do they know it is out at night? (Just a thought about how attentive their answers might be, I don't know of any pet stores that have a night staff ...)

    Vulgaris are considered nocturnal BUT one grad student paper and a couple of misc articles have mentioned that they naturally forage early morning and early evening rather than being true night time active animals. Virtually everyone has been able to intereact with suspected Vulgaris after coming home from work. The two at Mote were out in the open all afternoon (I kept checking in on them during our tour - can you tell I want one? ;>)
     
  8. simple

    simple Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    i guess it could indicate an adult pygmy but plum sized mantle is pretty big for a pymgy isn't it? It is a possibility that the picture they have of it at the moment isn't even the same species. I will ask if they can get me a picture of one of the ones that are currently in stock, but i do not know if they will be willing to.
     
  9. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Architeuthis Supporter

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    That would be way big for a pygmy. The eyes do appear very large though, so perhaps it's an exceptional catch. If so, it's probably due to expire very soon.

    I asked if it was native to or captured in California and this is what they told me
    Doesn't sound right.
     
  10. simple

    simple Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    i still think vulgaris. Water temp seems too hot for California, but reasonable for Florida or maybe the gulf of Mexico. The guy says the species is "brown octopus" which is no help at all..
     
  11. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    The only cephalopod I can think of off the top of my head that is native off California, Mexico, and Florida is Architeuthis dux.

    "We must fall back upon the old axiom that when all other contingencies fail, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes

    :rolleyes:

    (actually, I think Vampyroteuthis infernalis, Arogonauta argo, and some deep-water squids the MBARI folks spy on are in both Atlantic and Pacific open ocean, but it was funnier before I though of that)
     
  12. simple

    simple Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    haha, yes thats probably what it is..
    my guess is that the seller isn't very knowledgeable at all about what species it is or were it came from, so he is just stating where "brown octopuses" are found in general, which probably includes several species that have been commonly called by this name.
     
  13. Taollan

    Taollan Vampyroteuthis Supporter

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    That octo is from Antarctica

    I am sorry to say, but I seriously doubt they are going to sell you that species of octopus. That picture is of an Antarctic octopus taken by researcher Seth White who has been down there. You can find his post featuring that picture at www.sethwhite.org/animals.htm ..scroll a little ways down the page. My guess, from the uniserial suckers and where it is found, is that it is Pareledone sp. (perhaps P. charcoti?) Anyhow, that particular picture is completely uninformative as to what you will be sold. No antarctic species is being kept at 72-76 F.
     
  14. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    good eye, Taollan, I completely missed the uniserial suckers! (Of course, I bought into the idea that they took a picture of the actual octopus they're selling hook, line, and sinker... :sink: )
     
  15. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Architeuthis Supporter

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    Ditto.
     
  16. Taollan

    Taollan Vampyroteuthis Supporter

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    It was kinda nice to look at Seth's pictures again....makes me want to go to Antarctica...giant pycnogonids and crinoids.... how fun.:snorkel:
     
  17. SandV

    SandV Wonderpus Registered

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    unfortunately it sounds like the seller is just trying to make a sale... because his answer to animal mother was "yes" ...like oh of course, it is whatever you want it to be

    sorry simple but I think with the answer california, mexico and florida... those are probably the places that they get them from... not nessecarilly that the one would be found in all three places... well, to them it is the same in all three places because it is a "brown octopus" don't you know.. lol

    If you really want an IDed octo this is not the one for you... imo
     
  18. simple

    simple Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    yea i guess, props to Taollan, i had no idea..
     
  19. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    :roll:

    Good eye Taollan, if I were a little less sleep deprived, I might have wondered why the LFS had crinoids and pycnogonids in with the octopus... as well as the fish...
     
  20. Colin

    Colin Colossal Squid Supporter

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    Just like when i was buying rays online 2 years ago and the supplier was sending me pics... I did a google image search and sure enough, there was the fish i was buying, but from a website a year or so previous.

    It was the fish in the background of the tank that looked out of place as well as the single row of suckers. The curled arms and single rows is a bit like a Scottish species called Eledone. Although the eyes 'were not right'

    Cheers
     

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