I SEE EYE'S!

Discussion in 'Octopus Care' started by AD2U, Sep 19, 2007.

  1. AD2U

    AD2U Blue Ring Registered

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    :grin: It has been about three to four weeks and now i see red eye's in the egg's that my octo laid. She is still eating good and protecting her baby's. :fingerscrossed:
     
  2. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    As I recall, you have a small egged species. dwhatley has had success with Cyclopeeze, so I would start stocking up on some. Also, if you have access to the ocean, you may want to start doing daily plankton tows and add this to your tank. You can make your own plankton net or purchase one from Acorn Naturalists http://www.acornnaturalists.com/store/PLANKTON-COLLECTION-NET-15-inches-tall-P510C0.aspx.

    Chances are that these babies will not make it, since they are soo small. Even in the wild, only one or two babies would survive.

    Good luck.
     
  3. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Architeuthis Supporter

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    Woohoo, that's exciting!
     
  4. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Find the smallest food you can (NO BRINE SHRIMP). Cyclop-eeze (frozen) has been excellent for my little brood but they were probably 5 times larger than yours will be and the food is close to the size of new hatched brine. I would advise trying to mash it up with a mortar and pestal to make it as fine as you possibly can. You will need TINY feed and good current, especially if you try frozen. You will also need a breeder net. I found the best way to keep the food moving was to leave my recirculating pump facing the net for half the day (mine are nocturnal) to clear the daily feed and allowed the normal circulation to keep the food suspended during the night (but still mostly within the netting). If your female is diuranl, than I would reverse the process. I believe current is important but your little ones will be more delicate. You might want to try creating a flow from the bottom of the netting rather than from the sides. I would also recommend putting numerous shells and small LR in the net. Yours will be free swimming for several weeks (pelagic), mine sought the sides and bottom shelter (benthic) right from the beginning. Most tiny hatchlings are born in great numbers, are pelagic and live as plankton for a period of time. Very few survive. Any thing you can come up with to keep them moving about and in contact with food will be a plus. A very few people have successfully bred the small seahorse babies of some species, fewer still the small egg octos but everyone wants to hear of a success story among hobbiests so anything you can find on raising tiny pelagic hatchlings may be helpful and experimentation is encouraged.:fingerscrossed:
     
  5. AD2U

    AD2U Blue Ring Registered

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    Thanks for the advise. I will have lots of ?'s to ask, stay tuned. I was going to try to feed them Reef Nutrition stuff. I don't know if it is small enough. They have several products from live to concentrate. I am going to sell there products online. Check out their website and tell me what you think i could use. www.reefnutrition.com. I also contacted Cyclop-eeze so i could sell their stuff to. Let me know if you need something. I will keep you posted on the :baby:'s. Thanks for your help and future help. :smile:
     
  6. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Please let me know when you are selling cyclop-eeze and if you can beat DrsFosterandSmith's pricing. I am very close to needing more and it is now one of those things I will not be without. If you will not have it available in the next week, I will need to order but I buy it about twice a year (two of the large packages).

    I like the phytofeast but had a disaster with it once with some premie seahorses (born early in shipment of the father). Watch your water parms! I put too much in the tank and they were dead in an hour. I still think it may work with the horses but not in a small tank. Possibly with a large tank and breeder net and in small quantities at one time. The horses did not stand much of a chance to begin with but the pollution from too much "food" killed them. Interestingly enough, I only put a small amount in my cull tank (malformed group) and they survived and lived a few days when they should have died almost immediately. One even began to swim. In the end they all perished. The product I had on hand was not fresh but had been kept refrigerated. I have had good luck with it as food for my soft corals but since using the Cyclop-eeze (much easier on the tank) I have not repurchased. The phytofeast is closer to the size (almost liquid) that you will need. I have not tried the Rotifeast but it may also be small enough and may not pollute as easily. If you are going to sell it, I would recommend experimenting with two groups and seeing if you get a different result. Any success you may have may also cross apply to seahorse fry. Please keep us posted even if it is a disaster. If my memory is correct, the babies reported have never lived a full week.

    Please let me know (PM or open forum announcement) when you start selling the products a link to your online site.

    I am looking forward to your attempts!
     
  7. bluezombie

    bluezombie Blue Ring Registered

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    Congrats! I wish you good luck :D
     
  8. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Architeuthis Supporter

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    "Congratulations, and, we're all counting on you." :D
     
  9. AD2U

    AD2U Blue Ring Registered

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    I have not heard back from Cyclop-eeze yet. I think i am going to contact them today by phone if i can. May be i will leave Reef nutrition alone i don't like products that screw up tanks. Price wise i will hook you up if i can on the Cyclop-eeze. Thanks for your help.
     
  10. AD2U

    AD2U Blue Ring Registered

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    Thanks, i will give it my all. I think about them ( baby's ) everyday.
     
  11. AD2U

    AD2U Blue Ring Registered

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    Thanks.
     
  12. AD2U

    AD2U Blue Ring Registered

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    One more thing. When the eggs hatch, can i leave mother in the tank with the baby's or do i have to move her?
     
  13. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Architeuthis Supporter

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    Leave her until she dies. I don't think she can do any harm.
     
  14. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    AD,
    I agree with AM and a key word he used, can. I have been mulling on Trapper's eating habits (please remember this is a Mercatoris and not the same species that you are going to attempt to raise so there may be no relationship at all AND my thinking and single observation are VERY unscientific) and came to a thought that perhaps the comsuption of ONLY dead things and later only tiny things might have to do with NOT eating young. No one (in my reading) has ever reported a mother eating their young but have reported cannibalism within the brood. Here again, with my small brood, this did not occur and Zyan reported no such problems with his 100 Bimac fry. Both of ours, however, were large egg, benthic species.

    I would definitely consider trying the Rotifeast and Phytopfeast in spite of my experience. The ingredients are planktonish (they do sell a "fresh" product that is closer to live) and the Cyclop-eeze will be too large for the first week (or more if they make it that far - I wish someone with some success would chime in - Roy says it just won't work and he's an expert but you couldn't keep seahorses and mandarins alive at one time either). If you use breeder nets and do lots of water changes (watch the water like a hawk) maybe you will come up with something. I know water movement and tiny food are required but it just may not be doable at home and you won't have a lot of time to experiment since the death rate is high and fast so you need to think out what you want to try and be ready. If you still want to consider Cyclop-eeze, use only the frozen (I believe they no longer sell the live or at least I have never found it and it is not on their site) and maybe grind it an then strain it. I wish you were near by as it would be facinating to try multiple batches in multiple tanks. Please keep us posted on counts and if anything seems to work even for only a short time. You might look up small pelegic seahorse fry and see if there are other feeding suggestions since the problems are similar.

    Keep us posted on your progress reports and thoughts!
     
  15. shipposhack

    shipposhack Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

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    I would be afraid to do water changes after they hatch until I could see them because I would think I am taking them out with the water. Are they visible when planktonic (specs, dots, maybe more)? If I ever came across this I would get a ~20 gallon rubbermaid, fill it with water from the tank they were laid in, throw a powerhead or two in (Koralia come to mind) and see what happens. I would also throw in some pods and rotifers (any chance the pods would eat planktonic larvae?).
     
  16. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I think most pods are way too large and yes most will gladly eat anything smaller than they are. The food has to be dense enough for them to "run" into it but water pollution is a concern. Steve did mention that he had squid success with denser food and not great water so I do think the density is key but he has access to ocean life where we are stuck with prepared. Rotifers by themselves may still be too large but a plankton mix might have a chance.

    I was NOT suggesting removing the fry but keeping them in a breeder net inside the main tank (internal nurseries have the best success with seahorses and offer much higher water quality and water movement options) and then changing the outer tank water.

    No power heads where they swim or part of the plankton soup will include baby octo (a review of other threads has a lot of them going out the overflow or into power heads the first day). If AD can find fine mesh for a net that will allow fresh water in but no octos out, water movement can be created outside the nursery. Even if more food than desired stays in the net, the water can be refreshed. Pushing them against the net is also a concern and is why I suggested blowing water up from the bottom rather than through the sides. An air line can also produce current and could be placed inside the net but I don't know if the bubbles are a concern. Such a long wait and so little time to try for success.
     
  17. AD2U

    AD2U Blue Ring Registered

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    I have already bought some of the Cyclop-eeze from a LFS. Price wise for a 2.5oz freezer bar was $13.99, is that a good price. I think the small fry should be ok. I have filter sponge glued to the overflow and the pump is under powered so i hope they will be ok. I think i am going to do another water change this weekend to play it safe before they hatch. I really hope i can make this work. I don't like people telling me i can't do something. Maybe it won't work, but i will die trying. I will buy some Phyto-feast live to see how that works. :fingerscrossed: Thanks
     
  18. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    Are you close enough to the ocean to do plankton tows? Most live cephalopod babies need some kind of live food. Even if you could do a tow every couple of days and leave some in the refridgerator for the other days.

    Good luck, I know you are trying to do your best for these little guys.
     
  19. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

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    Although this would be my intuition, there was one example here where the mother died after hatching, and almost instantly all the babies died; the theory was that somehow the death of the mother impacted the water quality in some way (maybe she inked as she died?) I don't remember who reported this, so I'm not sure how to find the thread. Of course, this seemed like more the exception than the rule, but I just wanted to bring it to everyone's attention for completeness. Anyone remember enough details to find this incident?
     
  20. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Architeuthis Supporter

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