Hypothetical situation Colossal squid interaction with white shark

Discussion in 'Cranchiidae' started by 221extra, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. 221extra

    221extra Cuttlefish Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    What would happen if a colossal squid and white shark met I know it wont happen but lets speak hypotheticaly.
     
  2. OB

    OB Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    46
    Likely nothing would happen, as they would not recognise each other as (potential) prey item (or threat). In case of an "animal stand-off", it would largely depend on who gets the business end in first, but my bet would securely be on Charcharodon, as it represents many times the killing power of Mesonychoteuthis. If the latter would be able to attack (dorsally behind the gills), it still would have a lot of munching to do to get to the shark's spinal chord; great white, however, could have a successful kill with bite #1, if it's to the head... I expect Mesonychoteuthis to be pretty agile, it's a big fin squid.
     
  3. 221extra

    221extra Cuttlefish Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    I kind of disagree with your answer for a face off because the colossal squid is said to have 2500lbs of force from the beak and their tentacles and hooks from the looks of the carcasses of sperm whales look what they do to sperm whales,Im sure it would make easy pickings of a whtie shark.
     
  4. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    11
    yeah, I agree with ob, I'd say that Mesonychoteuthis probably has the same attitude as most other squids: if I'm not sure I can eat it, I'm going to avoid it. Its big eyes would probably see something that big from a long way off, and it would just leave... and likely go deep as well as far away. Extrapolating from humboldts, I don't think it would grab on and try to kill an opponent like that, but it would probably be able to avoid letting the shark get in a good attack unless the shark surprised it somehow.
     
  5. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    11
    At the risk of being sort of cynical, this is starting to sound like an argument over what would happen if the 1987 49'ers faced the 1937 Yankees in a hockey match.
     
  6. Izzy

    Izzy Pygmy Octopus Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm thinking here, that it's probably never going to happen, because the squid would probably bolt if the shark came near it. The thing is, and correct me if I'm mistaken, but great whites and colossal squid do not really share much (if any) habitat. The sharks prefer the epipelagic zone where there's a lot of light, while the squid would tend to stick to the mesopelagic zone. When the squid even enters the great white's habitat, it's more than likely that the squid is ill and dying, or very confused and off its guard. This would make it far more vulnerable to an attack, and I'd give the shark the upper hand if they ever met naturally.

    Now to the hypothetical: the shark and the squid meet where they both have all of their strengths. I personally would give the upper hand to the squid based on the fact that the squid can do battle with sperm whales, and they are fairly evenly matched. The great white is definitely not as big as the sperm whale, though it is probably just as good if not more ferocious a predator. I would tend to think that if the squid managed to hook the great white anywhere, that shark would be a gonner, because once the squid has a good grip, it won't let go, and it would take more than one bite by the shark to get the squid, unless it was a perfectly positioned bite, and that would be very very rare.

    This is going back to the "Who would win? An orca or a great white?" Well, this has been proven - a juvenile orca simply bit the head off of a fully grown great white. The orca is smaller than the sperm whale, and if it dived that deep, it would probably be pretty well matched with the squid, though I'd guess the squid would come out on top more often, from sheer perseverance (mind you this is completely hypothetical, because orcas can't dive that deep on a regular basis and during the time of the battle, they would drown from oxygen loss). So if the squid beats the orca and the orca beats the great white, then the squid beats the great white.

    And of course, this would NEVER happen in the wild, because the species are distinctly separated in habitat, and I resort to my first comment about what would happen if they were found in the same habitat naturally.
     
  7. Jwb187

    Jwb187 Cuttlefish Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Izzy didn't know you were here too....lol

    anyway....i think Mesonychoteuthis, will, in a faceoff, come out the winner but probably with some lost parts of its arms or tentacles
     
  8. gjbarord

    gjbarord Sepia elegans Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    152
    Location:
    Des Moines, Iowa
    My money is on the great white shark, hands down.

    Greg
     
  9. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Likes Received:
    236
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I think the shark would win in this situation. The skin of the shark would be harder for the squid to bite through as well as grip with its suction cups...
     
  10. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Messages:
    6,642
    Likes Received:
    2
    Win? Is this supposed to be about predation? I am at a loss for the moment...

    There is no way, unless over a territorial dispute, that the situation would arise.

    Great White Sharks are one of the most perfect predators on the planet, but they also have a big shy streak. The same goes for the squid.

    Lions rarely eat leopards, and vice versa...for a reason. Too much damage incurred. Hey look, there goes a gazelle! Yum!
     
  11. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    19,079
    Likes Received:
    1,126
    Location:
    Gainesville, GA USA
    They haven't found sperm whales in the stomachs of giant squid ... On the other hand the Seattle aquarium lost a lot of small sharks for not having the right answer ...
     
  12. bigGdelta

    bigGdelta Vampyroteuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    0
    but more importantly who would win in a fight between mr splashy pants and mr grumpy pants?

    2 memes enter 1 meme leaves
     
  13. OB

    OB Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    46
    I have to concur with D, whales and (giant/colossal) squid are not evenly matched: giant and collosal squid are eaten by sperm whales, the damage done in retaliation is only skin deep.

    Great white, 3 feet wide, extremely powerful bite...
    Colossal squid, 4 inches worth of similar material...

    Now, what if Liopleurodon.... :wink:

    The biggest factor, is however, behavioural; I expect Mesonychoteuthis to be an ambush predator of sorts, such as Charcharodon. I am not sure how any such beast would fare in a face-off type situation with a continued requirement for sustained aggression, they would simply both disappear into different corners. Based on the scarce evidence regarding M. hamiltoni (none), I put the latter down to speculation on my side :grin:
     
  14. Clem

    Clem Architeuthis Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    49
    Depends. How large is Mr. Splashy Pants? 'Cos Mr. Grumpy Pants has some serious reach.

    Meso vs. Carcharadon? Accepting the artificiality of the scenario, and all things being equal between individuals near the upper limits of achievable size, I have to think the shark would have the edge, mostly because of the disparities of density and weight. The white shark is much heavier and more solid, 2,300kg vs. 450kg. The shark might well have the sensory edge too, with a more diverse array of prey (and threat) detection organs.

    Actually, this does make me think about sleeper sharks and how they might kill Mesonychoteuthis, assuming that the Meso bits found in sleeper sharks weren't scavenged. Perhaps it has something to do with mass, i.e. the shark taking hold of the squid (or the squid taking hold of the shark) and then throwing its weight around until the squid breaks in half.

    Clem
     
  15. 221extra

    221extra Cuttlefish Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the sharks best options are ambush squid have proven themselves to be formiadable aversarys.Against the shark it would be the same the squid has a nasty beak with some estiamated 2500lbs of force its smarter and maby stronger. It could possibly drown the shark. And about the greenland shark I dont think they actually hunt colossals more like scavenging because they dont have any scars on them like the sperm whales have.
     
  16. Tintenfisch

    Tintenfisch Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,083
    Likes Received:
    171
    The greenland shark certainly never encounters Mesonychoteuthis, being a northern Atlantic to Arctic species (while Meso is strictly Antarctic). However, Cherel & Duhamel (2003) examined 36 sleeper shark stomachs and report Meso as comprising a large proportion of the cephalopod prey (16% by number, 52% by mass), with other large prey species being Kondakovia longimana (yay onychoteuthids! Even as prey!), Taningia danae, and Architeuthis dux. C&D call the sleeper shark 'a fish with a sperm-whale-like diet' and 'the second top predator known to rely to a significant extent on giant squids.' However, they also state that '[h]ow sharks catch such giant squids remains unknown because they may either prey on live animals or scavenge on dead individuals.
    Does seem unlikely that enough dead/moribund M. hamiltoni, T. danae, K. longimana and A. dux would be all swirling around together to occur so commonly in 36 stomachs though.

    Cherel, Y.; Duhamel, G. 2003. Antarctic jaws: cephalopod prey of sharks in the Kerguelen waters. Deep-Sea Research I 51: 17–31.
     
  17. Steve O'Shea

    Steve O'Shea Colossal Squid Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    17
    Shouldn't forget offensive vs defensive.

    The Colossal Squid lacks the basic tools to kill a large shark, whale, turtle, porpoise, chunk of cheese, or even Mr Gummy Bear. Last time I looked it didn't carry concealed weapons ... like harpoons, machine guns or knives, or a cheese board, crackers and wine.
     
  18. OB

    OB Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2003
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    46
    The latter, of utmost importance! If the cheesboard would contain a nice piece of "ripe" unpasteurised Chaumes, Münster or Camembert, no great white of any persuasion would be able to resist its lure and gleefully enter the "embrace of death", that is the brachial corona of Mesonychoteuthis! Given sufficient time, even its relatively small beak might be able to get to the shark's spinal chord, eventually. You'd then have to bring A LOT of cheese, 'though :wink:
     
  19. Danno

    Danno O. bimaculoides Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2006
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    2
    Remember a long time ago there was a picture of an Octopus squeezing the guts out of a dog shark (something similar)?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA8zQw6gDNI


    Are squids capable of dishing out squeeze power like an octopus? I thought sharks drowned if they stopped moving? (im a noob, i hope that wasn't a mytho) I have a feeling the answer is going to be no, but I'm curious. I mean just by looking at an octopus, they seem to have a body for constricting but wasn't sure if squids were capable.

    *edit* Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there were deep sea photographs of some sort of deep sea squid killing a shark in National Geographic. Having trouble finding it, or maybe I am mistaken?
     
  20. monty

    monty Colossal Squid Staff Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    11
    If you find the national geo pics, please post a link, I don't think we've seen those (that I remember, anyway).

    I've heard that sharks need to keep moving for good respiration as well, but I'm not sure it's all sharks, or even that it's been proven completely.

    As far as the GPO killing the shark in that example, I've always assumed (admittedly with no evidence) that it didn't kill it by constriction, but rather by severing its spinal cord, either by biting with the beak or twisting it until it broke. Since sharks don't have lungs, and are cartilaginous, I would expect they'd be pretty resisting to constriction.
     

Share This Page