How big do you think that a giant cephalopod can get?

[OB]

the 495 kg is the weight of the specimen minus the weight of the container. There was some ice but only a minimal amount...the (wet) specimen was placed in the container on board the fishing boat but no extra water was added.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Firefly]

This is quite interesting:

Any thoughts?

 

[Steve O'Shea]

The only one thing I know is existence of beaks from sperm whale's stomachs, suggesting bigger specimen of M HAMILTONI than the "Te Papa" sample

The largest lower beak thus far had a rostral length (LRL) of 49 mm. The most strange thing about this was that it was recovered from the stomach of an Antarctic toothfish, rather than sperm whale (I think the largest from a sperm whale was ~ 47 mm). The toothfish OBVIOUSLY scavenged it (there was flesh still attached to the beak). I'm still comfortable with the ~ 750+ kg estimate of possible weight for this brute.

 

[monty]

There's a big thread around discussing the "Monsterquest squid" show... the general conclusion seems to be that it was cool to put a camera on a humboldt, but that the tools to estimate the size were rather silly. MonsterQuest also had an episode about a patently ridiculous giant octopus supposedly swimming around Puget Sound.

 

[Rob Romero]

Steve,
thank's for the info on largest Collosal Squid beak found (49 mm) making a creature of ~750 kg. Any idea as to what length this beastie might come out to, and what about Giant Squid beak records?

Rob Romero

 

[OB]

With regards to mantle length in Mesonychoteuthis, it is likely not to increase in b=3 (W = aLb) relation to its weight; all indications are for the females of the species to grow bulkier towards adulthood, rather than longer as could be expected. Total length might even decrease, due to suspected attrition of the tentacles. Earlier projections of a maximum ML of around 4,5 meters took b=3 as a given, henceforth overestimating the maximum length, IMHO.

Sorry, can't do superscript here, but that's obviously "to the power of b"

 

[Firefly]

There's a big thread around discussing the "Monsterquest squid" show... the general conclusion seems to be that it was cool to put a camera on a humboldt, but that the tools to estimate the size were rather silly. MonsterQuest also had an episode about a patently ridiculous giant octopus supposedly swimming around Puget Sound.

Yeah, but how big then is suposed to be that squid? Very big tentacles I would say...
I did found quite interesting to have the luck to see squid interactions down there and all the curiosity around the camera, without hurting the animal that was with it.
I also did saw that octopus episode but didn´t liked it at all... It was just a waste of time.
Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Damien]

Concerning big suckers scars on sperm whales , i had couple of questions but i cannot find clear responses :

What is the reliable biggest size off such scars ? diameter ?

Is it possible that during the growth of the sperm whale, the skin etende and increases the size of scars => The consequence could be an overestimation of the size of succkers
Or is this idea totaly stupid ?

 

[Tintenfisch]

Hi Damien,

Sorry, just saw this thread and was about to reply. You're exactly right - the scars stretch as the whale grows, giving an artificially large impression of sucker size. We have a few old threads about this (e.g., here), but the photos all got deleted at some stage (although there are still some here) - will have to see if I can dig up the original ones again.

 

[Damien]

so that could explain irrealistic estimation of mega giantic colossals cephs that somes "cryptozoologists" made in the past....

 

[OB]

They're still pretty big, though Colossal may win by sheer bulk of its mantle, but Architeuthis has an arm crown that is really, really BIG. Would love to see it alive at some stage...

 

[ScottDV]

I have read about some unverified examples found dead in the past that were never officially measured by a scientist but were by laymen which are much bigger than the largest official giant squid.

1.) "A badly damaged carcass which locals claimed to be a giant squid was washed ashore at Port Shepstone on the natal coast of South Africa in 1926. All the arms and tentacles were missing, but estimates, based on the size of the body alone, put its overall length, with outstretched tentacles at about 30m (100 feet)"

2.) "One found in the same area in 1882 was claimed to have a length of 26.9m (88 feet)" The “Same area” here refers to the below location in Newfoundland, I just wanted to order these three specimens in order from biggest to smallest.

3.) "Another specimen found at Flower's Cove on the Newfoundland coast in 1934 was positively identified and measured. It was 22m (72 feet) long"


Big enough for you?

These accounts came from the book The Search for the Giant Squid by Richard Ellis. Amazon.com

The South African one was new to me but I had heard about the 72 footer and 88 footer before previously in a book I use to read from the Library when I was a young boy. However, although it has been over 20 years since I read it I could have sworn the date they gave it was 1865 not 1882 and that was the year that BOTH bodies washed ashore during a swarm of squid carcass beachings. Also the book which I can't find on the internet but had a sea serpent on the cover had some additional details The Richard Ellis book did not. namely it said in the book all the carcasses of Giant Squid were stretched out and measured by honest fellows of good repute and solid character-the local constable and a nearby school principal. this being before the time scientists could just take a plane and fly over and not the first time dead squid had washed ashore they cut it up afterwards and fed it to the dogs which was habit of the time to do with them before they started to stink things up with their rot. I am not saying these account are true but they well could be and if the Police and principal did measure them I have no reason to believe they were lying, esp. since most of the ones they did measure fell within out acceptable boundaries of what modern science says is their size range and only these two didn't. Of course who knows though for sure, it might have been a made up story for all we know.

 

[ScottDV]

To answer the question of the thread is all but impossible. Let me make a comparison and we will use another animal as an example. Let's use...humans as a comparison since we are animals as well. How many dead squid do you suppose Mr. O'Shea and all his colleagues have studied that have washed ashore over the world's oceans since modern science came about? A few hundred maybe I would guess, correct me if I am wrong. To try and use those measured example as a size range is logical but to try and use them as a known maximum size of the species is utter folly.

Let's say you are an alien race and come to Earth to study humans. part of you mission for the biology of mankind is to dig up a couple hundred random dead bodies from a public cemetery and measure them and perhaps catch a few live examples. What do you think the size range of a sampling of a couple hundred human carcasses would be? here are some stats for you. "According to the Height Analyzer, the percentage of men taller than 6'4" is 0.5%"

So what is the tallest person you are likely to get in that sampling? What are the chances you would get someone of Shaquille O'Neal's size & foot 2 inches high? better than winning 2 lotteries in a row I bet. Here are the stats: "According to a scientific study there are 3 people 7 feet or taller for every 1 million people, so there are roughly 20,000 people over 7 feet tall." That is in the World

Plus, what is the chances you would get Leonid Ivanovych Stadnyk who is 8 feet 5 inches tall 9the World's tallest living man)? http://www.mahalo.com/leonid-stadnyk

What would be the chances you would dig up Robert Wadlow formerly of Alton IL. who was 8 foot 11 inches tall? Robert Wadlow - Wikipedia

There is also an unverified account of a man who lived in the Arabian Peninsula long ago, Gabara, the Arabian giant, whom was 9 feet 9 inches tall.

Apply the same statistics and ratios to giant squids. I have a very eclectic mix of interests, i always look for the biggest, meanest, heaviest of animals and this manner of think can be applied to any animal, all have genetic freaks far a larger than the normal size range (for example a 902 pound Black bear or a 276pound Mountain lion or a 2,000 pound pig). All predators have their own legends of ancient giants terrorizing the community like Big Jim the rattle snake in Frontier time Illinois and Indiana or the giant 400+ pound snapping turtle known as the beast of Busco in the early part of the 19th century in Indiana.

 

[OB]

To put things in perspective, close to 95% of the entire Antarctic blue whale population was "harvested" over the course of the last century, giving a very good estimate of maximum size for that specific species. For a 28.50 meters average size at adulthood, the largest (female) specimen measured 33.60 meters. That is an 18% "overshoot". Just like with humans, but maybe this rule of thumb applies to mammals only?

Apply this then (for whatever reason) to Architeuthis, and it's maximal mantle length goes from 2.25 meters (measured maximum in adult female, for the sake of argument assumed to be "average" only) to 2,65 meters. For Mesonychoteuthis we can not be sure, as we've only measured sub adult females so far. It would surprise me, however, if that species ever exceeds 3.00 meters in mantle length.

 

[ScottDV]

"That is an 18% "overshoot". Just like with humans, but maybe this rule of thumb applies to mammals only? "

The overshoot with humans is much more than 18%. The average male is about 5 foot 9 inches and Mr. Robert Wadlow was 8 foot 11 inches tall. Like whales we have a skeletal structure that can only support so much weight and height and we live on land and are thus subject to gravity which further impeded growth after a certain point. In addition, humans have a pituitary gland that stops the body from growing at some point (which can malfunction like it did with the giants like Mr. Wadlow). However, a squid has no skeletal structure to constrain growth and lives in the vast expanse of water which allows for greater growth without the higher restrictions of land animals (which is why Anacondas who stay in the water are the ones that get the biggest of all constrictor snakes). I doubt Giant Squids have anything like a pituitary gland to stop growth and like crocodiles the only thing that limits their size ready access to an abundant food source and lifespan. If you get a genetic freak that has the combination of a extra long life and genes to grow extra large which mathematically will occur in a large enough sample of population (its all ratios) then you will have a freak squid almost as every bit big as the drunken legends of yore. The ratio though may only be like 1 in a million squids or less. Heck, there are 20,000 people over 7 feet tall but out of the world population of about 7 billion. If there are a couple million, tens of million, or billion squids percentages tell us at least a few will be monsters. of course the chances of mankind ever running into the freak squids are nearly nil but out of tens of thousands of fishing vessels that put out to sea every day worldwide over the past 3 or 4 thousand years someday someone may see one of these and presto, a legend is born!