Herpetology

Colin

TONMO Supporter
Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Messages
3,986
Reaction score
6
Yep, that's my other big interest :)

Anyway, this is an on-going thing in the UK where DEFRA (the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs) are about to kick the animal trade into shape in the UK. What this means is things like the possible banning of keeping snakes that can get to over 8 foot long, the revision of the DWA (Dangerous Wild Animals) license which covers venemous snakes and other dangerous animals etc etc.

Although I have yet to find reference to blue ring octopuses there is a good chance that they will find their way onto this proposed updated list of DWAs, this means that a vet inspection of your premises, the holding tank, your security arrangements and your insurance details will all need checked in advance of purchasing an octopus or face a heavy fine and ban from keeping animals... from hamsters and up!

I know how many people as hobbyists feel about keeping blue rings and other venemous animals but i feel it may be about time that this came about. As caring ceph keepers we must make sure that we act responsibly and that our small corner of the pet trade doesn't end up in the firing line as much as herpetology has!

here is usefull links to sites by the hobbyists in the UK http://www.f-b-h.co.uk/index.htm and http://www.defra.gov.uk/ for the governing body.

So, it doesnt really affect us here but as i have lectured on the subject i thought it was very interesting and a possible warning shot? Perhaps sharks, stonefish, lionfish etc etc will find their way here too??????
 

Venom

Cuttlefish
Registered
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Too true!

I am the Asst Vice Pres of the Southeastern Hot Herp Society (www.venomousreptiles.org) , the largest venomous reptile society in the world with members in 30+ states and 11+ countries.
A point we are constantly trying to get across is the need to be proactive. Everyone wants total free reign to keep what they want and not have laws regulating things, well all it takes is 1 mishap and people who have no idea what the heck they're talking about (politicians) will spring into action and pass laws to make things "safe" and protect thr voters.

The point is there a few ways to handle things....

1 sit back and hope nothing changes and you can keep what you want - keep your head in the sand and hope no one notices the possibilites.

2 wait for the axe to fall. someone gets nipped by something toxic, or worse yet, someone gets nipped by someone esle's toxic pet. Then the government freaks and outlaws them all and you have to break the law or go through hell to keep what you want

OR
3 be proactive and work with the powers that be to get a set of rules/permit system in place BEFORE something bad happens.

I kept preaching that the upside to permits is if you have one, then they CAN'T take your animals unless YOU screw up!

Realistically, which is more dangerous...
an 8' novenomous snake or a blue ring that can kill in minutes from just a nip that you probably won't even feel.
I would say your concerns are warranted!

-V
 

Melissa

Larger Pacific Striped Octopus
Supporter
Joined
Apr 3, 2003
Messages
1,137
Reaction score
0
Venom, your reference to people who don't know what they're talking about is well-taken. A few years ago, some aides to the Mayor must have had a great time, when after some hubbub about pets, the Mayor released a memo banning the majority of animals from homes.

I can still hear little old ladies going on about how they'd defend their canaries and budgerigars from the Mayor. Polar bears and lobsters and other unlikely pets were included. Lizards were included, but my mother and brother still have their lizards. Dogs were not on the banned animal list. I doubt blue rings or many other genuinely dangerous but possibly housebroken creatures made it onto the list, either.

Melissa
 

Clem

Architeuthis
Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
49
Melissa,

Here's the NYC fine scale for dangerous animals:

Blue-ring sitting on subway steps: $100
Gaboon pit-viper smoking in bar: $250
Wolverine busking on sidewalk: $400
Polar bear molesting U.S.S. Intrepid: $1000
Mesonychoteuthis swimming in Central Park reservoir: $1500

:roll:

Clem
 

Venom

Cuttlefish
Registered
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Melissa said:
I doubt blue rings or many other genuinely dangerous but possibly housebroken creatures made it onto the list, either.
Melissa
Unless an Octo happens to be involved in an "incident".
OR A well intentioned, yet misguided, lawmaker or pillar of the community type happens to see one of the gajillion venom shows on Discovery, sees that some Octos can be dangerous, then happens to see or hear of one in a store or collection, or available on the net ;)

Plausible scenario:

Pillar of society sitting home with kids/grandkids/dog whatever, watching TV. The kid/grandkid/dog happens to really like watching old Steve-O. "Crikey! This lil Ripper, called the Blue Ringed Octopus, can kill a man in under 4 minutes!" as he's trying to balance it on his nose, or drop it down the front of his pants.
Fast forward a week later, we see our hero of the story walk into a pet shop to get some doggy treats. There in a tank is an Octopus for sale! The sign says simply "Octopus". Now our good friend Mr. Bimac, as we all know is harmless, but he has that beautiful blue ring on the side and decides to show it off against the glass.
"OH DEAR LORD! A BLUE RING JUST LIKE I SAW ON TV!!" I must call my friend the mayor and have this stopped before a school full of children all come here ona field trip and feel the need to stick thier hands in unsupervised and get killed, then the blue ring escapes into the sewer and kills the whole state!!"

OK some things are slightly exagerrated, yet basically plausible.
You say, "Surely, they'll believe an expert that tells them it's a bimac!"
There's currently a very public battle going on in one fo the midwestern states involving a pet shop's claim that alligators and crocodiles only grow as large as the fish tank they are kept in and as such, are viable pets. Experts of course raise the BS flag and tell them the opposite, but the town council decides to believe the pet shop owner, since he's been selling them for so long. Viola, any kid with $50 can go buy a carnivore that can potentially reach 14' and 800lbs.

This is why I say if at all possible be proactive and get involved shaping the laws that effect YOU!

OK, I've rambled enough, storytime is over :)

-V
 

Venom

Cuttlefish
Registered
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Clem said:
Melissa,

Here's the NYC fine scale for dangerous animals:

Blue-ring sitting on subway steps: $100
Gaboon pit-viper smoking in bar: $250
Wolverine busking on sidewalk: $400
Polar bear molesting U.S.S. Intrepid: $1000
Mesonychoteuthis swimming in Central Park reservoir: $1500

:roll:

Clem
Getting the permits to keep whatever you want and are qualified for?

Priceless ;)
 

cthulhu77

TONMO Supporter
Supporter
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
6,642
Reaction score
2
Hah! coming from the most regulated state in the union (az), I can tell you that the whole thing about animal regulation is a crock of crap. some of the finest exotic venomous animal collections I have ever seen exist in our state (where, technically, you can't have most everything)... if the government steps in any further, why don't they outlaw pit-bulls, and rotties too? after all, don't they injure and kill more innocents than snakes (I won't even bring up the octopus, as that is just silly)
Allowing the government more access to your home and records is a huge mistake, one that I made more than a decade ago, and have had much cause to rue...
Go to every game and fish meeting and throw tomatoes, introduce bills, and let them know that you DO care...don't let what happened in arizona happen to you!
Greg
 

mikeconstable

GPO
Registered
Joined
Mar 19, 2003
Messages
106
Reaction score
3
UK HAS banned pit-bulls,
30 years ago (at least) Croydon (south London) would not allow pet shops to sell poisonous marines like lionfish
 

Colin

TONMO Supporter
Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Messages
3,986
Reaction score
6
cthulhu77 said:
Hah! coming from the most regulated state in the union (az), I can tell you that the whole thing about animal regulation is a crock of crap. some of the finest exotic venomous animal collections I have ever seen exist in our state (where, technically, you can't have most everything)... if the government steps in any further, why don't they outlaw pit-bulls, and rotties too? after all, don't they injure and kill more innocents than snakes (I won't even bring up the octopus, as that is just silly)
Hi Greg
Why would you say that they have the finest collections in Az? Is that because of strict regulations or are they illegal collections in your state? Just curious.

As Mike said American Pitbulls are banned in the UK and that was only AFTER kids got bitten/maulled/killed by them and suddenly everyone reacted with one big massive knee-jerk response and there was mayhem. Everyone that owned a terrier that looked even remotely like an american pitbull was branded irresponsible and hassled in the streets, such is the public outcry exagerated by the media.

So, dogs like that are now frowned apon and its illegal to keep A. pitbulls.

By being pro-active and by getting involved with local governing, I suggest that we could be the ones to advise the people making the final decissions.

(damn, have to go to work :( )

be back later :)
 

cthulhu77

TONMO Supporter
Supporter
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
6,642
Reaction score
2
Totally support your views! Here in AZ, the herp groups dropped the ball with lobbying, and they passed ridiculously restrictive laws...Lets not let that happen again!
the collections I have seen here rival anything I have seen anywhere in the US...and I have seen quite a few...I have some friends in Germany that have beautiful displays, but I have only seen the pics (alas!) My point was that the check system of governmental laws established in AZ are ineffectual, and are carried out by untrained personnel who, in general, were rejected by the police or sherriff's depts, and picked up by g&f...not exactly the cream of the crop. Venom is lucky in Florida, where they have a reasonable set of rules that seem to work out well...all of us out here are very envious! Every year we go into the public meeting re:reptiles , at the councils HQ, and try to set up a similar program, but it is like water eroding rock...every year a little bit of headway. I don't know if I will see the changes in my lifetime, to be honest.
If we had only been more organized in 1976 when they passed these ridiculous laws, we wouldn't be fighting this up-hill battle...luckily, the marine keeping community out here is kept well aware of possible changes, and has some good public support....
Greg
 


Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
19,591
Messages
203,047
Members
8,480
Latest member
Nathan37

Monty Awards

TONMOCON IV (2011): Terri
TONMOCON V (2013): Jean
TONMOCON VI (2015): Taollan
TONMOCON VII (2018): ekocak

About the Monty Awards
Top