Hate mail for like-minded conservationists

tomossan

Blue Ring
Registered
Joined
Apr 5, 2003
Messages
42
Reaction score
0
no; id kill a dinosaur, with no intention of eating it. Or an alligator. OR a giant shark. Or, if i was in the water, and had the means to, a Meso.

selective killing is not natural; it is a product of civilisation to presume you can only kill what you want to eat
 

WhiteKiboko

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
2,702
Reaction score
15
Location
Charleston
i was going to leave this topic alone, but another favorite animal (shark) was invoked, i had to.... killing for self preservation is not a construct of civilization, im sure it happens all the time...not eating the shark or alligator is just wasteful since they both have some good meat (not to mention you could get some shoes or a suitcase while youre at it...) never tried to eat a dinosaur so i dunno, and Steve says they havent tested for ammonia content of the meso so i still have time to tweak my new and improved batter....:)

id kill a dinosaur, with no intention of eating it. Or an alligator. OR a giant shark. Or, if i was in the water, and had the means to, a Meso.
so you could ice a dinosaur, gator or shark without help? WOW! i guess im nowhere near the toughest customer around here :)

dang - i wish i had gotten to the other threads first.....
 

moseman23

Hatchling
Registered
Joined
Apr 4, 2003
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Responding to Steve's call for comments

Steve,

I think that it is quite useful to think for a minute about the real issues that this kind of comment raises about biology and exploration as well as conservation.

It is ironic of course that the state of affairs with squids in general and this species in particular is that I'm sure you'd be ecstatic if in fact it were possible to collect this and and Architeuthis and many other species and keep them alive for even a little while to learn about them.

That being said, I'd be quite interested in your views about how a scientist can do things we are all interested in-- understanding the incredible diversity of life that lies still unexplored beneath the seas, educating people about its importance, and getting support for the work from people with money, while not just being a cataloger of things in jars.

It seems that one of the important contributions you are making to the whole field is spreading the knowledge, and that comes with a whole load of two-edged swords. The same media fests that will get you invited to give talks, get documentaries shown on TV, draw school groups into museums and biology classes will, of course, lead to horrible misquotes, distortions, and omissions. But really, one of the things that is distinguishing your approach compared to lots of other teuthologists is your enthusiasm for getting your findings out as fast as possible to as many interested parties as possible, including of course all of us amatuers. This is I think an important trend in many fields of science, as much about broadening support for research as involving enthusiasts like us in little bits of the research.

Biologists always have a hard time explaining why they have to kill so many things to study them, but compared to that entomologist Irwin killing millions of insects in the rain forest to find a single new species, it seems like finishing off a dying squid is pretty small beer. But I would say that the emphasis on classification over habitat and ecology is a tension in your field; who knows if we'll ever know enough about these creatures and how they live to know if they're threatened til its too late?

Whew.
 

Steve O'Shea

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
27
Thanks everyone for your posts; they have given me something to think about. I will respond soon.
Cheers
Steve
 

kaharoa_spy

Hatchling
Registered
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
I be the one who looks as though I have eaten the most squid! I have to keep on eye things to report to the powers that be!

What I want to know is what these big squiddies should be called? I have been searching my dictionaries and am now confused (situation normal).

Giant = unusually large
Colossal = enormous
Enormous = Very large

Does this mean therefore that a Giant Squid or a Colossal Squid is the bigger - semantically speaking?

Cheers
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
2
OKAY.... my :twocents: :

I'm behind you Steve. The fact that these people are even THINKING that you're some kind of "Steve-O the Squid Slayer" is both misguided and stupid.

Ignore them... Truth is, you will never be able to please everyone all the time, and to be honest, the mass media will tend to sensationalize everything no matter what you do. Biologists are not killers. People who study the natural world are unfortunately beset upon by all sides by those who don't understand science, nor understand how painful it is to watch those lifeforms you care for so much be torn to pieces by forces both natural and unnatural. You didn't kill the squid. And that squid's sacrifice may go a helluva long way more towards protecting it than sitting in some lab looking at sonar images. Personally, I envy you.

I stand by what I've said before; people only care about what they can truly experience. This "Messie" is something the whole world should know about. Its every bit as beautiful as it is frightening. Its the unknown... its what fuels the heart of any real scientist.

Hate mail be damned...

Anyway, I should go start working on my own "Squiddies" (Those who have seen "The Matrix" know of what I speak :twisted: )

Peace and Ika, Sushi and Sake,

John
 

Steve O'Shea

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
27
kaharoa_spy said:
Giant = unusually large
Colossal = enormous
Enormous = Very large
....would that be you R?

My dictionary defines them as:
Giant = remarkably or supernaturally large (I must have a bigger dictionary than you)
Colossal = of immense size; huge, gigantic
Enormous = unusually large in size; immense or vast

Immense = unusually large; huge, large; vast; without limits; immeasurable

We could go in circles here .... :roll:

So, as colossal has more letters I hereby decree it to be larger than plain-old giant. Moreover, colossal means gigantic even, and this has to be several orders of magnitude gianter than giant, in addition to being both immense and immeasurable.

....problem is 'supernaturally large' sounds pretty big also.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2003
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Science doesn't kill... People kill.

I'm not against science but I think sometimes we need to examine and question the scientific research. Science must be balanced with social responsibility. Albert Einstein said that if he knew that his work in nuclear physics would lead to the invention of the nuclear bomb, he never would have studied physics!

"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones." — George Bernard Shaw
 

WhiteKiboko

TONMO Supporter
Registered
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
2,702
Reaction score
15
Location
Charleston
Steve - supernaturally large sounds kind of cool, but this isnt a phantom squid... (maybe archi could qualify for that) in one of my dictionaries, the first couple definitions deal with the people of fiction/fairy tales who were of great size, maybe thats where the supernatural comes from....

Architeuthoceras - i always kind of liked that progression...as long as someone doesnt jump the gun and go from super to hyper.....

shf2 - why cripple science by throwing social responsibility in? obviously, prudence is needed, whats the point in killing a lot of animals to learn about them if your studying significantly impacts them...(either in # or in the populations behavior) plus societies are constantly changing, bending certain rules, throwing out others.... id rather have scientists get answers and need help dealing with people than being socially conscious and accomplishing little if anything....
 

Members online

No members online now.

Latest Posts

Forum statistics

Threads
20,335
Messages
204,898
Members
8,483
Latest member
Mellen221

Monty Awards

TONMOCON IV (2011): Terri
TONMOCON V (2013): Jean
TONMOCON VI (2015): Taollan
TONMOCON VII (2018): ekocak

Top