Genghis - O. briareus

Feeding is a topic we don't all agree on and I suspect the differences have something to do with the different species. People that keep cold water animals all seem to agree that feeding every other or every third day is best. Very young animals (hatchlings) should likely be fed at least once a day possibly twice. My animals (warm water) are hungry daily up until they are well into senescence. Life span may be increased by reducing both temperatures and food but I am not sold on this thinking for warm water species and have not seen anecdotal postings that would merit doing so (there are postings for the cold water animals that are quite convincing).

So, rather than giving a recommendation, I will tell you how we feed and hope you will report your process as well. All my animals will eat daily and we experiment with how much but starting with half a shrimp. If there are leftovers, we cut that in half again. If it is fully consumed, we offer a full shrimp the next day. Oddly, they rarely take "seconds" and we no longer offer them. Feeding live is a bit different and in their prime they tend to eat at least 2 fiddlers. We DO fast them once a week but they will still come for feeding on those days (once they have adjusted to a normal feeding schedule). Sometimes I throw in a small live crab if the animal dances a lot when I go by the tank but they don't get a full meal. We have had extreme difference on how much to feed within the same species so you need to adjust accordingly. If an animal does not eat for a day, don't worry but you may need to start feeding that way (again, this is more typical of older animals). If it does not eat for 3 days, then worry and try changing food. This often occurs at the beginning of senescence and we have had animals only accept live crabs at this stage. Over eating is sometimes a sign of prebrood preparation so what you WANT to see is a steady eating pattern.

Diet variance is highly recommended. You can offer most seafood counter foods (avoid live/aquarium fish as they are almost always treated with copper). Clams (other mollusks are fine but very messy and heavy polluters, clams are fairly clean and can live in the tank until "discovered". I do let them sit in a bucket of tank water overnight to rid them of pollutants and be sure they are going to survive), blue crab claws (we go to the Asian markets and hunt through the live crab bins for the claws. The claws can be frozen but not the bodies. Frozen meat will have been cooked and you want raw), any kind of small crab (I recommend disabling the claws by breaking off on of the tips). Additionally, they will hunt pods and snails when first introduced but not so much when they are used to an easy meal.

HOWEVER, IME nothing in the first 2 weeks can be considered "normal". It takes about a month for them to really adjust to aquarium life and you will see numerous changes during that time. After the first two weeks (or sooner) you may not see the animal much at all. Don't give up or get frustrated, this is really just the beginning of the experience. It does require patience and regular (as in time of day) tank interface but MOST will acclimate to a feeding schedule and be waiting for food, many will eventually interact.
 
Ok. I'll just do some experimenting. Thanks again, DWhatley, for taking the time to respond to my posts. It's a huge help. So as you predicted the damsel did not cooperate. He spent the better part of the day annoying Genghis (I named the octo, guy or girl we're going with Genghis). Anyway I woke up this morning to a dead damsel at the bottom of the tank so problem solved. Another thing he's been doing is he carries shells and small rocks to the top of the tank and then drops them. I'm guessing he is just playing? It's pretty entertaining to watch.
 
With your permission, I would like to move Genghis thread to the journals section and retitle it with the species and name.

Octos will rearrange a tank to their liking and it is not always SMALL rocks that they move around. Unfortunately, sometimes this is a pre-brood signal. Since Genghis is new to the environment, there is no clear indication. If she had been in the tank for a period of time I would be prepared to expect brooding, but, as I mentioned, the I have found that first couple of weeks cannot be reliably used for any kind of future behavior.

One big advantage to O. briareus is that it is a large egg species and it is possible (but far from easy) to raise a hatchling or two. The down side, as with all but two known species, is that the female dies shortly after the eggs hatch (or would have hatched if the eggs are infertile).
 



Hopefully that's not the case, but if it is it would be cool to try and raise them. I forgot to mention earlier that Genghis still hasn't found a den. There are plenty of available places, but he just stays on the glass when the lights are on. When the lights are off he is all over the tank and navigates under and on the live rock. Have you ever seen one take this long to find a den? Oh, and feel free to move the thread.
 

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Not denning and staying in the open are not good signs but not overly unusual. The tank does look like it offers nice housing. What you DON'T want to see is limp arms hanging down in a cork screw configuration. At this point, eating is a your most positive sign so keep offering food at the same time each day. The first two weeks are always nail biters and I am never comfortable until they are over.

I expect to start my own trials next Wednesday :gigas:
 
UPDATE: Day 7 and Genghis is still kicking. He still has not "denned" and spends most of his time on the glass in the upper right corner. I feed him everyday at the same time and about every other day he will actually eat. I also put a ping pong ball, legos and a small tupperware with an emerald crab inside in the tank. He seems to enjoy playing with them, but has not attempted to open the tupperware and get the crab. I will update if anything changes.
 
I don't see anything in the posturing that is negative but the mantle looks a bit full in the back. This could just be the photos or it could be an indication of the beginning of eggs. However, if I counted correctly, the arm that would give away its sex is one recently provided to something as food (or a failed mating attempt :biggrin2:). Watch that arm and if Genghis starts rolling it up, (don't confuse this with the suckers at the tip curling upwards, that would be the beginnings of new growth) then you can forget the not reliable mantle observation.

Nice looking starfish!

If you can clip that tie end back or blunt the edges a bit you might prevent a minor problem we had with one of ours cutting herself on the sharp edges of the end.
 
I went back over my O. briareus acclimation photos and found that the mottled pattern is actually very common during acclimation. Is Genghis denning yet? This is still worrying me.
 
Well....we made it 14 days which is great, but Genghis still hasn't denned. He's gotten to where he gets in the corner underneath the powerhead which I'm assuming is better than out in the open on the glass. He's still eating about every other day and seems to be acclimated. He is all over the tank in the morning and seems to be acting normal besides the lack of a den.
 
What kind of aeration and water movement do you have in the setup? Hanging out where the water is moving seems to be a faction of getting older and staying there, a bad omen but he still has nice color. If you have some kind of movable power head (like a Koralia), you might try adding it behind a piece of rock so that there is current there. Are you using a sump? If so you might also add an air stone there, if not there has been a bit of success adding an airstone at the TOP (first inch or so) of the aquarium but there have been problems with octopuses getting air bubbles under their mantle if it is placed near the bottom where it would do the most good. Anything you can think of to increase the oxygen exchange may help.
 


I didn't even think about the air flow as a factor. I figured he was just hiding behind it for coverage. I'll move it down towards the rock and see what happens.
 

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Well here we are a couple of weeks later.....since my last post I added an air stone, but Genghis still hangs out on the glass up top. I've gotten to the point where I put my hand in the tank and play with him everyday which he seems to enjoy. Unfortunately I believe Genghis is close to the end of the road. He hasn't eaten in 7-8 days. He's still pretty active and seems fine, but refuses everything I have offered him. I'll keep you guys updated.

Side note the last couple of days he has been keeping one eye closed. Has anyone ever seen that before?
 
I am surprised and happy that Genghis has been alive this long. Not denning or not going into a den in the daytime is usually a sign of no more than a week before they expire. Excessive activity (as well as daytime activity) is very normal for male senescence. Some animals show this as much as 6 months before they perish but it is usually the larger species, not the ones we keep at home.

Eye problems often come with senescence. There is bit of anecdotal evidence that high nitrates might also impact the eyes but I have seen it in all animals that have an extended senescence. Not eating for a week is almost a definite aging sign as well but they can often go a long time without food. When you see him become inactive and not being able to color (sort of a gray look), you can expect only a day or so left but this could still be a couple of weeks away or it could be tomorrow. Octopus survival in old age, not unlike in humans, varies a lot.
 

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