[Octopus]: Espy - Abdopus ?

Discussion in 'Cephalopod Journals' started by DWhatley, Aug 6, 2011.

  1. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    At least I am pretty confident in the A. part. Live Aquaria honored (as they always do) their guarantee without question (I called when it arrived to note the arrival condition of Dink) and had a replacement animal available. This little guy is obviously much healthier, came out to the red lit part of the tank tonight and took a thawed fiddler (but refused all other offerings). His mantle is roughly 1.5" and he is showing the typical Abdopus horns and eye star. I am excited that the tip of the third right arm was curled while he was out on the glass tonight (all other arms were spread straight) so I have my :fingerscrossed: this little one is a male.
     

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  2. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    He came out to the glass on the red light end again tonight as soon as the lights were off. Once he realizes we see him he waits for us to leave and then hides but has come back out after we leave. So far these are all normal, positive signs about his health.

    During tonight's wall spotting I noticed that the third right arm was tightly rolled, not just the tip (initially, I could not see the arm at all and was concerned one was missing :roll:). We have had several small animals reported as nocturnal that never grew detectably. I am quite sure this is a male abdopus but don't have a clue if it is young aculeatus or an adult of another, smaller animal in the complex.
     
  3. iAlex

    iAlex Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    It's a shame you named the other one Dink... I love that name. xD
     
  4. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    LOL, exactly what I said to Neal. I might go with InkADink, combining Dink with Inca in hopes that it won't have the same fate its namesakes.
     
  5. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

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    That's a great name too!



    Verse:
    What is that haunt -ing re -frain that you hear in the air?
    Here and there, ev -'ry where,
    It's just a beau -ti -ful strain that keeps taunt -ing my brain con -stant -ly,
    It's my mel -o -dy it's my sy -pho -ny.

    Chorus:
    Ink -A Dink -Doo, A dink -a dee, A dink -a doo.
    Oh, what a tune for croon -ing
    Ink -A Dink -Doo, A dink a dee, A dink -a doo,
    It's got the whole world spoon -ing.
    Es -ki -mo bells up in Ice -land, Are ring -ing,
    They've made their own Par -a -dise Land, Sing -ing
    Ink -A Dink -Doo, A dink -a dee, A dink -a doo,
    Simp -ly means Ink -A dink -A dee A dink -a doo.
     
  6. tat2spyder

    tat2spyder Blue Ring Registered

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    He looks good. hope he does better than your last one. i'll be watching this thread closely.
     
  7. Lmecher

    Lmecher Larger Pacific Striped Octopus Registered

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    It's been too long. I need to check in more often. :hugs:

    Congratulations on the new little addition. :smile:
     
  8. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    We decided to name him Espy (as in SP # for an unknown species). I am pretty sure he is in the Abdopus complex but believe he is an adult. The mantle size is smaller than the first joint on my pinky finger. His color is good and he patterns well but he is far to comfortable with touching and being touched to be a young octopus. He is sexually distinguishable so I would guess a minimum of 5 months old. Hopefully we will have a few months with him. So far he has shown several color variations, one including very yellow spots. He has avoided being seen in the daytime but has shown himself for food and after the lights turned off but tonight he was out for a couple of hours and had little issue investigating an offered finger. His grip is very light, a huge contrast to Diego.

     

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  9. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Espy Beginning Interaction Video

    I am worried that Espy won't be with me long because of his age. He is active much of the day but does not really seem to hunt much. With insistance, he will take a crab (no shrimp or any other offered food) and will remove the top shell but it does not appear that he is eating much, if any. I added pods from one of the other tanks and I think I saw red octo poop (Cyclop-eeze) yesterday.

     
  10. tat2spyder

    tat2spyder Blue Ring Registered

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    my abdopus i got from LA acted very similar. very social, but not interested in food. i wonder if maybe LA has been sitting on a bunch of octopus, and they've grown old waiting for someone to buy them. i have seen them "on sale" twice in the past two months. not that i'm talking smack about LA because normally everything i get from there is awesome. but just an idea. makes me a little nervous about possibly ordering another octopus from LA any time soon.
     
  11. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Octopuses are a lot different from fish or corals. Not only is the species often difficult to identify but there is no good way to determine age and, of course, they live a lot less time. We are fortunate that LA offers them since most on-line pet stores won't deal with them at all. These animals are brought in by wholesalers and are not housed in their longer term facilities. So, no, it is not likely they have been sitting around in an aquarium waiting to be sold but they may be somewhat seaonal and in larger supply when they are put on sale.

    What I have typically observed (both on the site and from my own experience) is animals less than roughly 5 months old will be very reclusive and rarely seen (and harder to collect unless it ends up as a hitch hiker in LR). Somewhere around 5 months old (I am guessing this has more to do with sexual maturity than an exact age) they start to be less timid and their growth rate slows dramatically. So if I receive an animal that is shy and I see detectable growth in the first two weeks, I expect it will be with me for the better part of a year but won't be very observable until it is about 5 months old. This is not an observation a reseller or a collector can use for determining an animal's age and size alone is not often a good gauge.

    I typically keep Caribbean animals collected in the keys but will occasionally buy an import, knowing that I will likely have less time with it. The small size was attractive this time around, especially because another member received one this year that lived 7 months. Sadly, instead of a young animal, I suspect Espy is a dwarf, full adult and may not even have a species name (hence Espy = SP). However, that does not mean I don't enjoy having him and his capture likely saved him from becoming a fishes lunch in his old age. I do see him hunting and suspect he is eating some of the Cyclop-eeze I routinely feed and am adding pods to the tank since he is refusing the standard fare.
     
  12. neurobadger

    neurobadger Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    I gotta say I'm thinking aculeatus on this one.
     
  13. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I feel comfortable with abdopus complex but it is way too small for aculeatus. I am also quite sure it is not a very young animal that will grow. There are known to be undescribed in the complex (many are likely common just not described as yet). Size wise it fits the description of abaculus (3 cm mantle ith 18 cm arms vs twice those numbers for aculeatus).
     
  14. sedna

    sedna Larger Pacific Striped Octopus Supporter Registered

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    I agree that it looks small for an aculeatus, but I remember having one that size and getting all excited thinking it was a baby aculeatus and being so sad when senesence came on so quickly. I know where tat2spyder is coming from, it seems like you're always getting a "dud" when they come in so old, but I agree with you, D. My guy from earlier this summer has passed, but I know that was very likely when getting an Indo species in the summer. They just always seem to be on the older side when they are available at this time of year!

    Anyway, Congratulations- I know you'll take lots of pics so we can start working on telling these little guys from aculeatus!
     
  15. devi

    devi Blue Ring Registered

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    I was just wondering, say if Espy is an undiscovered species, could you 'discover' her? Or is it more complicated?
     
  16. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Far more complicated. I have the arm of Monty preserved in alcohol (the rest is in formalin) just in case I find a student that would like to try a DNA match or DNA registry. Kat's PHD research focused on reidentifying a genus of squid (now proudly called Callimachus :grin:). One of the complaints I have is that we can't easily obtain full official descriptions of animals. A lot of the identification requires disection and knowing what you are looking at and then researching to find a match.
     
  17. ieatfalalfel

    ieatfalalfel Wonderpus Registered

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    thats seems like a lot. if the same system were in place a century ago, we would stll be discovering the pigeon
     
  18. devi

    devi Blue Ring Registered

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    So how exactly would one go about 'discovering' a new species? Does it need DNA mapping? I've become rather interested in this lately after hearing that a single scientist had gone on a deep sea trip and identified dozens of species. Some of which I was sure I'd heard of before.
     
  19. neurobadger

    neurobadger Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Well, let me tell you what's been going on at the Smithsonian:

    There's a new species of finned octopus, and since I don't know whether they want to release the information about this or not yet I'll call it Finnoteuthis sp. A, which is still being sussed out in terms of how it's related to the other, er, finnoteuthids. DNA evidence doesn't match up well with morphological evidence right now and the species picture is clearer after more genes are used, but it's still inconclusive. Sometimes it seems like more of an art than a science to figure out where a species belongs.

    The best I can say from what I know is that it is Very Very Difficult.
     
  20. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Once there is a release on finnoteuthis it would be great if you would present a page on the different avenues used to identify and isolate a species from your prospective. Most of us don't get close to the process and have no clue what is involved. I know the write-ups are easier to get for university folks but just trying to find an official definition when you know the species you are looking for is almost impossible for the average aquarist. One question you might be able to answer though, how many animals need to be found to be able to attempt to classify a new species?
     

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