confused?

Discussion in 'Cephalopod Journals' started by OCTO OAKLEY, Nov 29, 2005.

  1. OCTO OAKLEY

    OCTO OAKLEY O. bimaculoides Registered

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    Well I got a call today from the owner at the lps and he said a lady ordered an octo and once it arrived she had lost interest and didnt want it anymore, and it was suposibally a brown caribean reef octo but the owner said it lookes nothing like any octo he has ever saw and he said the legs where missing so he asked me to come check it out so i headed up there and i checked it out and its a mimic well atleast i think from the zebra markings and no the arms werent missing it was curled up! and i started to explain to him how hard and unright it is to keep them and he is willing to sell me him for $40! i dont think i want to watch him die atleast with me! i want it to live but i cant do anything all i have is a 75 gal. that is my reef tank but reef only no fish and then i have my 120 for my cuttle but i dont think the 75 would be suitible for him and i will not put him in with airhead so im caught in this mess i want to do something and have him live the tank its in rite now is a 50 gal. with nothing but LR. and kris is begging me to take him but i dont think my reef tank is rite but the tank he is in rite now is deffinitly not suitable and i also dont want to lose my corals! so please help me out on this should i leave him there and hope the best or should i try and host him in my reef tank? please please please give me a suggestion i dont want him to die and i really dont want him to end up dieing with me in a few days! :confused:
     
  2. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Hey OO, tough choice!!

    If it were me I'd take him. Your lfs seems like he knows what he is doing, and you can give him a telling off for ordering mimics. From the sounds of it he doesnt want to trade in them either which is good. :)

    gotta go, Ill write more when I get back.
     
  3. OCTO OAKLEY

    OCTO OAKLEY O. bimaculoides Registered

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    yeah im so confused though i dont know what to do! and he didnt order it on perpose it just came but i did give him a lay down on it and he said if they ever come up on orders or someone asks if he can order one he will refuse thats how he did with pygmy seahorses they where really big here and many people asked for him to order them and he refused so im glad he knows that with the mimic now to!
     
  4. Nancy

    Nancy Titanites Staff Member Moderator

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    Could airhead live in the reef tank? That species doesn't get very large.

    Nancy
     
  5. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    Good heaven's...punctuation !!!!!:grad:

    If it came in by accident, it is just a sorry fate...you can put it into a tank if you want, but the chances of it living for more than a few weeks are slim...40$ =few weeks...hmmm.
     
  6. OCTO OAKLEY

    OCTO OAKLEY O. bimaculoides Registered

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    yeah that could be a possibility but i dont want to move him then have the mimic die in within a short time therefore airhead would go from one home to the next and back but im not sure how good of an idea that would be he has been in the 120 gal. since he was born! would that be hard on him moving like that?
     
  7. OCTO OAKLEY

    OCTO OAKLEY O. bimaculoides Registered

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    and see your rite cthulhu thats what im confused about $40 for a few weeks of watching an octo slowly die thats what is tha bad thing i wouldnt want to go through that i just wish it would have never came in i would be so much happier if it was home! but i cant do anything and that sux!
     
  8. Nancy

    Nancy Titanites Staff Member Moderator

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    Didn't someone else on these forums buy a mimic (or wunderpus?) by accident and keep it for a month or so.

    Your LFS should at least give it to you at no cost, although it doesn't seem to be his fault that the wrong octo was delivered.

    Nancy
     
  9. OCTO OAKLEY

    OCTO OAKLEY O. bimaculoides Registered

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    well yeah i agree but hes out there to make money even if he knows it will have a better home with me!
     
  10. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Well, have a chat to the lfs guy again. Im geussing that if you tell him the octo has only a few weeks to live it will (hopefully) be very easy to get him to drop the price.
    I would swap him into the 120G, I doubt airhead would mind too much.

    Its a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a mimic (without potentially daming their population in the wild even more) so I say see how it goes.

    With the lfs not intentially getting him, I think its fair enough to give it a shot. He is most likely going to die a cramped death, so he is better off in a large tank and an informed owner who cares about him.

    Maybe you could write an article about how it goes.?

    Its a tough call.
     
  11. OCTO OAKLEY

    OCTO OAKLEY O. bimaculoides Registered

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    yeah i think i might just get him then im sure i can talk him down if not ending up walking out with him at no cost but i will have to explain the whole thing to him! and i hope airhead wont mind the move and he will have a feast on my sexy shrimp i think i might take them out though before he makes dinner of them!

    and i know its a once in a lifetime oppertunity but knowing what this octos been through makes it so much worse i would do anything to get him home! even if i do get him at no cost!

    so i will give it a try and your also rite atleast i know he will have died in luxury! but yeah i will keep up to date posts on it!
     
  12. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Hey OO, sounds good, sorry I was in the chat room but my friend was on the comp - didnt mean to leave you hanging lol. :grin:

    Keep us updated on how this goes, lots of pics ect!!!
     
  13. OCTO OAKLEY

    OCTO OAKLEY O. bimaculoides Registered

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    oh its okay man! but yeah i will give it ago and keep ya posted! i think i might head up there soon and i just got off the phone with him and he said he got him to eat a crab so good signs but i wont give my hopes up to soon one minuite he could be doing fin the next he could be on the verge of death!
     
  14. cuttlegirl

    cuttlegirl Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

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    Is this the same LFS with the Nautilus? Could you convince him to donate it to the aquarium? Good Luck.
     
  15. Nancy

    Nancy Titanites Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't think you should consider this an opportunity, but rather a rescue. Then make the best of it.

    Nancy
     
  16. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    I agree, but it is an opportunity of sorts, he has made sure that this animal isnt to be aquired by the lfs again, and he is also lucky enough to get a mimic octopus without crossing the moral boundaries we enforce and follow on tonmo. :grin:

    Personally I would love a mimic!! - but only a morally aquired one :smile:

    Im very interested in how it will work out, why do they have such a short lifespan in captivity?
     
  17. erich orser

    erich orser Architeuthis Supporter Registered

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    Perhaps mimics need the sort of strong currents, desert-like conditions, and high sunlight of their native submarine turf. Also, they are probably evolved to enjoy the specific burrow-dwelling fauna from their area, so my guess would be that professional aquarium attempts to raise them would need to include these animals in addition to replicating the undersea climate they hail from. Granted, that's a complete layman's guess, but it would make some sense.

    This should be looked at as a rescue, and should be carried out. Provide that octopus with the best care it can receive. You don't want the LFS to sell this animal to just anybody, and you seem to respect these animals.
     
  18. Feelers

    Feelers Vampyroteuthis Registered

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    Ive done a wee bit of research on the net, and found that the probable cause of many mimics quick death - is the technique to capture them. Cyanide is used to flush the octopus from its' den, and apparently the health affects only become apparent further down the line.

    Perhaps the shock of moving to a new tank coupled with the cyanide poisoning is why many die within days.

    The mimic tank doesn't require any rocks (well for filtration it does obviously), and an 8-10 inch deep sand bed is the "reccommended" minimum.

    Temperature should be constant and water quality should remain high.
    Dont change salt brands as some brands may kill them.
    Subdued lighting is reccommended.

    Apparently they like to swim around alot and may get frustrated and ink if they crash into the glass too much.

    Colour changing is only to completly black, and this is only while angry or frustrated.

    They may (but are unlikely to) have toxic venom, no-one really knows as a bite hasnt been properly documented - from what I could find.
    The reason they are unlikely to be poisonous is assumed from comparison of other mimicing organisms, but is still just an educated geuss.


    Thats the info I could find on short notice :grin: , some animals have been given to the NRCC, and still died within days.

    Oh, and lastly no mimicry has been reported outside of their natural environments - and apparently they make dull pets.



    O'O, I know I told you this in my pm, just thought everyone might be interested.
     
  19. cthulhu77

    cthulhu77 Titanites Supporter

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    Sad, really.
     
  20. Neogonodactylus

    Neogonodactylus Haliphron Atlanticus Staff Member Moderator

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    This is not a rescue!

    The rationalization that this is a rescue is exactly the logic (illogic) that keeps Wunderpus and Thaumoctopus in the pipeline. It is easy to say that the damage is already done and what will it hurt if I buy the animal and enjoy it or that it's life will be "better" in my tank than in the LFS owners or someone elses. Nonsense! This animal has been taken out of its habitat and will never reproduce. While we don't know how many of them there are in the wild, it is probably not a common, abundant species and even moderate collection pressure could be damaging.

    The only way, short of restricting their importation, that the capture of mimics and zebras is going to be deterred is if there are consequences for wholesalers and retailers who traffic in them. If you pay the shop owner even what he paid for the animal, there is no disincentive for him not to do it again, and even worse, for the importer and wholesaler not to continue to pay collecters and shippers in Indonesia to provide these animals. The best way to dampen the trade in these beasts is to let these "mistakes" die unsold in the shippers or shop owners tanks. It is a sorry fact that financial loss is probably the only short-term message that will work.

    I know that this seems harsh, but I have been watching these animals being imported for several years and the fact is that there are many more coming into the trade now than ever before. There are too many stories on this and other sites about shop owners selling mimics for a 1000% profit (a $50 animal sold for $500) and there are too many examples of people deluding themselves into buying a mimic with the rationalization that it is already in the shop - I can give it a better life - so what will it hurt. I'm not an expert on the psychology of mimics, so I really don't know if it is a better life to live for six weeks in a home aquarium (probably with the wrong substrate), or die in six days in the shop owne's display aquarium. I do hope that it will be better for the survivial of the species if collectors, importers, wholesalers and retailers can't sell them and are forced to take a loss.

    Obviously the best solution to this problem is to get all "zebras" (since most people can't tell the difference) onto a protected list, but given that this probably won't happen anytime soon, don't buy them - even if it is to offer them a "better life".

    Sorry to be so blunt about this, but the past few years I've been writing posts about this and the problem is worse, not better. Frustration is setting in.

    Roy
     

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