Coldwater Marine Setup in the Garage

[DWhatley]

Live Rock is wild rock, aquacultured LR is rock put into the ocean for a few years. That is a sweet deal on the tank BUT there is a major concern with it being a freshwater setup. You will want to ask if they have ever used copper based medication. Since it is still setup they should have on hand any medications used. If you can get the name of the meds you can usually look up the contents on-line. Cephs are sensative to copper and Jean (Portabello Aquarium, NZ) tells a story of a small amount of copper wiring being lethal and required extensive measures before the aquariums tank to be used for a ceph again. It is believed that copper medications imbed into the silicone and will leach enough to make the tank lethal for the life of the tank.

It would be a good idea to filter your rain water (and think twice about an RO/DI unit but you would need a pump in your cistern that provides at least 60 psi (higher is better and produces less waste). Pollens and other pollutants as well as mold and mildew are a problem as well as bacteria (drinking water cisterns must be treated with clorine). You might consider using the UV in the cistern rather than in the tank.

 

[Fishy]

I have just asked about the copper medication. If he did use freshwater copper medication, is there away to remove the copper? Maybe by putting more sealant over the current contaminated sealant so it is sealed off? I have heard about 'Cuprisorb' but I'm not sure if it would work on the freshwater medication.
Also, about the live rock, what I meant to to ask was if temperate live rock is the equivalent of tropical live rock as a bio filter and cycling the tank.
Also, about the rainwater, maybe if I put it in the tank, treat it and ran it through the UV for a few days, would that be adequate? The rainwater is only a one off thing, when I do future water changes I shall use RO water from a LFS.
Thank you so much for bringing the copper treatment problem to my attention, you are literally a life saver !

 

[DWhatley]

I can only offer heresay on the copper. The current thinking is that silicone will never come completely copper free if exposed and the only way to ensure 0 leaching, must be fully stripped and replaced. The general recommendation is to avoid used tanks if you don't know for sure.

The retention properties for acrylic tanks are unknown by participants in prior discussions. I have several acrylics but only two with an unknown history. Another is known reef only use but not 100% on any kind of copper treatment, however, reef only use is a good bet for no copper. FOWLER use is questionable. The smallest acrylic that was likely a freshwater tank (and you can almost guarantee a FW tank will have been exposed to copper) for some or all prior life (and was likely unused for years) has successfully housed mercatoris through their natural life spans. The larger acrylic (60 gallon) was also a freshwater tank housing cichlids. The owners were unaware of copper based medications but there was no guarantee. It has housed three octopuses successfully for longer lifespans than poison would allow.

I have avoided buying used glass tanks (Maya's new tank is glass but I know the history and acquired it from the original designer).

 

[Fishy]

Ok fingers crossed, he kept discus and I have a feeling they are sensitive to copper.

 

[DWhatley]

I noticed the discuss and I did not use copper with mine but when I looked up treatments, copper was included. Most discus keepers will be very aware of what the are willing to put in the tank so asking would likely get you an answer but be sure to check if he kept anything else before the discus.

 

[Fishy]

He says he has used copper heavily in the past few years, so I think I'll pass on this tank.

 

[DWhatley]

Interesting DI sand since it is copper specific and intends to address the problem of residual copper. I don't know of anyone who has used it or how effective it is on tiny amounts of copper but I can't see that there would be a negative with adding it to your filtration as long as you can effectively keep the sand from the tank. I have experimented with putting a penny in a tiny tank and then using poly-pad and did get a blue-black filter rapidly. After removing the penny the filter eventually stopped turning colors but I don't know if the tank is truely clear of copper (my experiment was to see if a penny would really put copper into the tank, not really to see if I could remove all of it).

 

[CaptFish]

Too bad about the tank. I would still get it just not for a Ceph.

D- what year was the penny? cause the modern penny has very little copper in them.

Years / Mass / Diameter / Composition

1864 to 1942 / 3.11 g / 19 mm / 95.0% Copper and 5.0% Zinc & Tin (bronze mix)

1943 / 2.70 g / 19 mm / Steel with Zinc coating

1944 to 1946 / 3.11 g / 19 mm / 95.0% Copper and 5.0% Zinc & Tin (bronze mix)

1947 to 1962 / 3.11 g / 19 mm / 95.0% Copper and 5.0% Zinc & Tin (bronze mix)

1963 to 1982 / 3.11 g / 19 mm / 95.0% Cu and 5.0% Zinc

1983-Present / 2.50 g / 19 mm / 97.5% Zinc and 2.5% Copper (20% lighter)

 

[DWhatley]

I can't remember if I dug up an old one or decided to use one of the newer ones. I remember wondering at the time if there was enough copper to even show on the poly-pad because of the decline in copper use but for the life of me I don't recall which I decided to use. Part of the idea was to add the copper then filter is mostly out and attempt to raise pods in the tank. Theory being that maybe palegic babies needed to ingest matabalized copper. Far fetched idea but given the current state of affairs it was worth a try. Unfortunately, Serendipity's eggs never produced young and the project stopped. The tank is still running (more or less - I forget to top it off and it goes somewhat stagnant but there is nothing in it alive) and I have no idea if there are traces of copper still present.

Which ever penny I used turned the filter so dark blue that it looked black after a week or so of not filtering so it did produce the desired copper traces.

 

[Fishy]

Interesting experiment!
I have found another tank which is a Betta Lifespace 1500 for £550. It's a bit expensive but it's only two weeks old and its original price was £875. It comes with a sump, cabinet, filter pads, piping and a pump. It measures 5'x2'x2' and that's about 150 US gallons / 125 UK gallons. Are Betta tanks of good quality?

 

[DWhatley]

We don't seem to have them here but it appears the 1500 is discontinued. You might want to do some internet browsing to see if the problem was more the size or leaks. These are made in China so the reason for discontinuing may be more size related. My quick check did not come up with any negatives but all were for the smaller sized tank 9 (and all well liked by their owners).

 

[Fishy]

I have found a 736 litre tank with cabinet, completely set up for tropical marines with sump, vecton 25 uv light unit, a heater, a V2 protein skimmer, power head, sump light, Ocean runner 3500 pump and a twin air pump. It will come with live sand, live rock and livestock but I hope to sell them / give them away immediately. I know of many people and aquarist shops that would happily take the angelfish off my hands! What sort of species could live comfortably in a 736 litre tank (195 gallons)? I would love to keep O. Cyanea or O. Vulgaris (NW Atlantic form). It would probably be much easier for me to keep tropical marine species because I can't find any heaters that have thermostats at around 10-12 degrees C.

 

[DWhatley]

I would love to keep either of those species too but don't have a tank large enough. Roy has kept Cyanea in the lab and has mentioned that they keep well in an even smaller tank but I don't recall anyone keeping a vulgaris. I tried to get the volume of water for the ones we saw at Mote during TONMOCON II but never got the answer. Apparently Cyanea does not naturally range far from its den and would seem like the ideal large octo for a big tank so that would be my vote if you have an option (and I want to see an active journal on one so I can be a vicarious keeper )

 

[Fishy]

Ok, will research cyanea, another plus is that they are diurnal and have the most amazing colour changes! I'd love to teach one how to unscrew a jar! However I'd hate to cramp one, I have heard they are one of the most intelligent octopus species known. Vulgaris tend to occur around here during the warmest summers, sometimes they cause havoc and affect the shellfish industry but they aren't really found close to the shore. I know one was found under a pier close to where I live, so maybe I could put PVC pipes into the water as a sort of trap, then drive it home in a coolbox. The local aquarium has had many escape, apparently they like to wander more than many species.

 

[DWhatley]

There is a survey I recently saw that was done sometime ago that tried to isolate quantify which octos were most likely to escape in ccaptivity and vulgaris rated either the highest or close to the highest. I will try to find it post a link (I can't remeber if O. Cyanea was listed at all but I don't think it was one of the octos reported).

Here it is, I was thinking is was a paper Ceph collaborated on but was not positive.