CHALLENGE

[Tintenfisch]

OK, guys, you asked for it. Here's pic #1 of the Amazing GS Discovery. We challenge you to figure out...

What this is, and
Why it's significant

Go for it!

 

[Steve O'Shea]

YO Steve???? I s this a joke about the Sperm whales stomach you promised us????????????????? lol??? HELP??

Tiz no joke sharpcuda. We'll pick up on the sperm whale stomach contents thread soon, when we've had an opportunity to catch our breath; we've not even begun to tell that story yet!

TTF has been immersed in GS stomach contents all eve, sorting through the mass of amorphous bits and pieces contained in those pics; the story will just get better, but it will take time to compose it also.

Rusty, you've done good
Cheers
O

 

[Fujisawas Sake]

DEFINITELY a run out of the bathtub yelling "EUREKA!" event....!!

WOW... You were right... this is pretty big!

Well, that makes sense... *kicks himself for missing it* But is the male killed or simply ... er... castrated? And I guess it serves two purposes here, sperm packet delivery and some extra energy for the female.

*study, study study*

*yawn*

Sushi and ... zzzzzz....

John

 

[nanoteuthis]

Ah-haaa....seems the Good Doctor is congratulating Rusty, and as I recall it was Rusty who came up with the autophagy idea.

So I think what we're seeing here is part of the Archi's own feeding tentacle, which I assume eventually regenerated. This was one stressed-out squid! Of course, there may also be spermatophores on it due to either a thwarted attempt at mating, or (if it's a male) one of those embarrassing "shooting yourself in the foot" incidents.

Are we getting warmer here? And while we're at it, do you suppose the locking mechanism on the Archi's tentacle club was the original inspiration for Velcro? Inquiring minds want to know!

Tani

 

[corw314]

Fascinating stuff!!! Soooo, seems like it ate it's own arm????

Or one of it's own kind???

Interesting!!!!

Carol

 

[Colin]

So, she eats part of the male (who is going to die soon after mating) and she gets the benefit of the meal (probably her last) and the benefit gets passed onto the babies? A bit like arachnids???

So, the sperm in her arms are bitten out by herself and she removes the sperm that way?

So, when she is ready to lay eggs she eats her own 'sperm-ified' arms and the sperm makes its way out of the stomach into an ovary area?

em, more to follow maybe......

C

 

[rrtanton]

Hehe...just got back here, my internet's been all wonky...

Colin...what a fascinating idea! Could it be that they actually have to manually bring back out their deposited spermatophores? Although...Tintenfisch did mention they pretty much stab wherever they can, so maybe some spots would be too hard to get to?

As for my guesses... ...well, they're still just technically GUESSES! That was just a really good clue from Tintenfisch and I found a helpful drawing.

Still, I think the crossroads we stand at now is whether this is the Archi's own tentacles or another individual's. If they're it's own, we'd prolly know because it would be missing them? Which then further leads us to why? Senesence? Starvation? Colin's really wild and cool fertilization idea? If it's another's, the questions would become did it just eat the tentacles or the whole squid, and under what circumstances--was it a hostile territorial encounter, was it the popular "suicidal sex" theory, or was it naked predation? I'm really not sure WHICH of these I like best! Suicidal sex does have a certain allure, though...wasn't it mentioned somewhere here that specimens of adult male Archis are really scarce? If most washed-up or caught specimens are adults at or post reproduction, then I guess they would be scarce if they're being eaten!

And, finally, one last idea comes to mind. Since no one's ever SEEN an Archi eat, just how might that work? Could it be that it's kind of like trying to eat a sandwich with heavy velcro mittens on? That it's unable to eat it's prey without accidentally munching a decent bit on it's own tentacles, and that they just regenerate really fast? Or that perhaps the occasional sucker or sucker ring gets popped out of the club by struggling prey, and thus ingested? Given that the Kiwi contingent assures us these are pretty sensational finds, this idea sounds a bit less sensational and so maybe isn't it. Just thought I'd throw it out there...

rusty

 

[Colin]

good call rusty!

That would explain the lack of males....

if it ate the whole squid then beaks would prolly be in the crap too.. if they can withstand some whale's stomach acids for a while i think they would survive in a squids???

I think her pulling off her own suckers to release sperm is my best guess..... Otherwise Im about to get really silly and go over board with daft suggestions!

C

 

[rrtanton]

Please, go overboard! I think part of the coolness of this thread is we're getting some amazingly neat ideas, which maybe don't apply here but maybe are useful for someone to remember for some other purpose, someday in the future. Sometimes. :P

rusty

 

[Architeuthoceras]

OK we know what they are.

How big are the big suckers on a big Archi and how big are the biggest suckers in the contents of the caecum?

And is that a crab leg or archi parts???

 

[Steve O'Shea]

Hehe...just got back here, my internet's been all wonky...

Colin...what a fascinating idea! Could it be that they actually have to manually bring back out their deposited spermatophores?

And, finally, one last idea comes to mind. Since no one's ever SEEN an Archi eat, just how might that work? Could it be that it's kind of like trying to eat a sandwich with heavy velcro mittens on? That it's unable to eat it's prey without accidentally munching a decent bit on its own tentacles, and that they just regenerate really fast? Or that perhaps the occasional sucker or sucker ring gets popped out of the club by struggling prey, and thus ingested

Interesting, interesting, interesting! Our net's been playing up too - we keep getting booted offsite every ~ 3 mins. Very frustrating.

Col, Rusty, interesting suggestions/developments on the manual liberation of spermatophores from the arms; I don't believe we had considered this - but one of the challenges put to everyone was to explain how the structures could have been ingested (many heads are better than 2). It is worth further consideration. Unfortunately we didn't have the head and arms for this particular specimen, so do not know whether it had/had not mated, or had ingested its own arms/tentacle clubs. Such is life (maybe it ate its entire head ; you see, these things are damaged in the trawls, and more often than not incomplete).

Rusty, your final suggestion is what's been going through my mind now for the past few nights (as these things do). However, if they were such 'messy eaters' then we would expect to regularly encounter their sucker rings (and suckers ... as is the case here) in GS gut contents .... and this is not the case. There is much work to do be done yet to identify these gut contents (we need to spend a considerable amount of time looking beneath microscopes, comparing our considerably masticated bits and pieces with other intact museum voucher squid, and by a process of elimination identify the species that have been eaten; there are remains therein of another thing that could be Architeuthis, but could be something else [the structures are similar in two kinds of squid]; if they prove to be Architeuthis remains, then their high numbers within the gut contents probably couldn't be attributed to messy eating.).

Thanks all, Us

 

[Steve O'Shea]

That would explain the lack of males....

(Oooops, this is Tintenfisch accidentally posting as Steve... )
(Maybe I should take advantage of this )

Actually male Archis aren't that rare... they occur about 50/50 (despite that Spanish claim to have found the first specimen ever... :? ) though they do seem to come in patches, e.g., the first three I dissected were all male, and the ones we did last week all female. Also, fishermen (those who save squid for us) often get several in one trip, and save only the biggest - and since mature females can be about a third larger than mature males, you can guess who we're seeing more frequently.

As far as crusties go... egg on face for my previous brash all-inclusive 'no crusties or secondary ingestion.' Although mostly in tiny pieces, there are a few bits of crusty in there (like a mangled euphausiid), probably from one of the smaller squid Archi ate. But all the squid pieces there are definitely primary ingestion, and there are no bits indicating that Archi eats crusties itself - no crab legs, etc.

 

[nanoteuthis]

euphausiid

Was ist das??

:? Me

 

[Steve O'Shea]

It'z one of deez (a shrimp)

http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img...namesoup=like&where-namesoup=Euphasiid+Shrimp

...but can ya spot which one

 

[Tintenfisch]

... Or try this one for a better look...

Euphausiid (Krill)

 

[heydiddlesquiddle]

Hi Folks,

I'm just wondering if there are funds enuff for dna testing to see if these ingested parts are from the same animal??

Is dna testing a normal procedure with these examinations?

Tony.