CHALLENGE

Tintenfisch

Architeuthis
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OK, guys, you asked for it. Here's pic #1 of the Amazing GS Discovery. We challenge you to figure out...

:arrow: What this is, and
:arrow: Why it's significant

Go for it!
 

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...I was just zooming in on the image... and is this (the thing circled in purple) an eye?

I thought I read that giant squid pulvarize their food before it gets digested... is that true?

download.php
 
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Steve O'Shea said:
What would it mean if you were to find a Roman coin inside an Archi stomach caecum

OK this may be slightly off topic, but one of my archaeological aquaintances once found a Roman brooch at the site of a Roman villa at Folkestone in Kent in the UK. It apparantly had a stylised octopus holding a dolphin in its arms and was absolutely exquisite. I just wish I had a photo of it to show you all. (By a strange coincidence the site overlooks my ammonite quarry)

Tony, your idea of a crab leg is interesting. Is there any previous evidence of Architeuthis ingesting bottom feeding creatures? As previously pointed out this would imply a hitherto unsuspected lifestyle.........
 
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Is there any previous evidence of Architeuthis ingesting bottom feeding creatures?
I don't know (wish I thought of that when I suggested there was a crab in there! And some octopuses for that matter...) -- but this would fit in with the image of a sperm whale swooping down to the bottom of the sea to munch on a mass of giant squid. How else would the sperm whale get so many beaks in its stomach? Imagine thousands of giant squid writhing on the sea floor, feeding on bottom dwellers, and migrating to a new spot to feed anew.
:squid:
 
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...I was just zooming in on the image... and is this (the thing circled in purple) an eye?

I thought I read that giant squid pulvarize their food before it gets digested... is that true?

They sure look similar to eyelenses I've found in the guts of smaller squid, they seem to be fairly resistant to digestion.

The limb does look crustacean. Even if the GS isn't a bottom feeder something it ate might be and what we're seing are the results of secondary ingestion. When I was going through the guts of the southern arrow squid I came across heaps of bivalve pediveligers (mobile shelled larvae) not normal prey. These little bivalves were less than 1mm long and the squid typically had mantle lengths longer than 200mm. then I noticed that the bivalves were always associated with an unidentified fish, probably a pipefish (definitely a snyngnathid anyway!!) Now these guys would eat bivalve pediveligers , so I deduced that they were secondary ingestion!!!

The crustacean would fit in with the GS eating an octi.

Thing 2 looks to me like a fish lower jaw but I could be way off base, some even look like hagfish teeth..................awwwww now my brain's turning to mush!

J
 
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tonmo said:
the doctor and his apprentice

Oi! That's 'the doctor and doctor-to-be,' thanks! :wink:

Soooo, OK, here's a clue. Check out Steve's guide to characters, Fig 6.3 - and bear in mind that the features on that particular structure are diagnostic, e.g., number occurring, shape, size, etc. :idea:

And I will say, there's nothing mammalian or avian in there, no crusties, and nothing secondarily ingested.

As soon as we can sort out the best bits, take some more mysterious (but enlightening) photos, and get them developed, things will become clearer. Hopefully this will be within a couple days, although we're moving... but I'm pushing to start sorting tonight. :smile:
 
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OK, I will go out on a tentacle -- uh, limb -- here. Is it possible that some of those unidentifiable things are Architeuthis larvae or paralarvae, thus indicating that Archis, like guppies, cannibalize their own young? (Or if they are indeed terminal breeders, the young of other Archis?)

Either that, or it's an elaborate hoax concocted by Colin, and the photo depicts the actual contents of a traditional homemade haggis.

Yum, yum! :yuck:
 
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Okay...well, I'm actually willing to now "bet" on something. I bet these are specifically sucker rings, probably from an Archi. They don't resemble the ones in Steve's characters article (but shouldn't, since that's a different species.) But they DO look pretty much identical to these (old!) drawings...I'm not sure how to attach an image here, so I'll tell you how I got there. Follow this link:

Architeuthis dux

Then scroll down a bit and find the "Characteristics" section. In that section, under "Tentacles," you can find a link to "tentacular clubs." That's got the drawings.

Clumsy, I know...sorry, I'm not sure how to make it cleaner than that.

It seems to be implying that these only occur on the tentacular club, which would mean this guy ate at least that part of another Archi...or if not, at least the arms in general. So...it ate another Archi, or parts of one? Or even ate its OWN? Somebody's mentioned here before that senescent octos sometimes eat their own arms...

rusty
 
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Okay folks,
Here's my presumption about this consumption of what is most likely a tentacle from an architeuthis. It could be possible i suppose that the male secrets his sperm in the end of a specially formed tentacle and deposits it within the females mantle. When the female uses the sperm (possibly thru her own "manual insemination") she may be like many other male mate eating creatures and ate the sperm carrying tentacle, or she may have taken the tentacles from her mate during the mating.
The sperm holding tentacle may indeed have slightly different characteristics to thier other tentacles which may explain why the parts visible in the clue photographs might not resemble known anatomy structures.
Was this a female archi?? and if so was she recently fertilized?

In the second clue picture could the worm looking item actually be the sperm sac??

Are there traces of sperm within the contents?

My original thoughts were however that this may have been a coelacanth (sp??) meal as I have seen serrated edges to these scales in pictures before.

Tony.
 
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Warning: :grad:

Although the males of many species of squid do have a hectocotylus and reproduce that way, Archi definitely has a completely separate and unmistakable 'male bit' (as Steve likes to call it tactfully), which, in mature males, can reach up to a metre or more. The males actually stab the females (and often other males) in the arms, mantle, under the eyes, whatever they can reach, and forcibly inject spermatophores into the skin, where (our best guess goes), they remain until the female is ready to produce her eggs. When she does, the eggs are sealed into a large gelatinous sphere (up to 2m in diameter), which she then cradles in her arms for a bit before allowing it to drift free in the water column. We think the spermatophores would be chemically triggered somehow by the presence of the egg mass, break open, release the sperm inside, and thus fertilise the eggs within the mass.
Sounds wild, but the egg masses have been documented (there may even be pictures of them somewhere on TONMO? There used to be... )
Anyway, the short answer is (too late), while the males' tentacle clubs aren't used as sperm conductors, they might well suffer casualties during the violent mating process.
 
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