Caught either a juvenile E. Dofleini or O. Rubescens last night.

[Joe-Ceph]

Where did you find that regulations booklet?

Just google "Oregon fishing regulations"

A PDF is online HERE for Oregon.
And HERE for Washington.

Then search the pdf for the word "octopus"

 

[tonmo]

I don't dive, but if I did...

...I probably wouldn't flip rocks or disturb ANYTHING in the environment I'm observing. I'd minimize any disruption, and steal all I could only with my eyes. Personally, I wouldn't touch an octopus either... but it must be quite an experience to see one in situ.

TONMO could probably stand to have a stance on this... something along the lines of what was just stated, although, if someone were to harvest one octo for their own safe keeping, so long as it was within federal/state/whatever regulations, I suppose that could be condoned... probably a discussion for the ethics forum.

Just an aside!

 

[DWhatley]

Interestingly, I think Taollan's situation is governed differently than a sport fisherman and goes back to the EU bill and the point I made about scientists having to abide by different laws than fishermen. I would not be surprised if the rules change in the next few years with the new cephalopod classifications in Europe so it will be both interesting and important to watch.

 

[Joe-Ceph]

[If I were a SCUBA diver]...I probably wouldn't flip rocks or disturb ANYTHING in the environment I'm observing.

I have mixed feelings about this. I've collected a few wild bimacs for myself, and to give to a few others, and I find them by tipping (not "flipping") rocks at low tide. If done correctly, the amount of disruption is insignificant, but if done wrong, a lot of stuff dies. I always put the rocks back in the same place, and with the same orientation, because the living conditions are drastically different under a rock compared to those on the top. I often find rocks that some idiot has flipped, and left upside down, so that everything, on both sides has died, so I hesitate to advocate rock flipping, but if done carefully, it's no problem.

To be fair, in the medium to long run, it probably doesn't matter if some rock flipper kills everything on some of the rocks. Every winter or so, the storms bring in enough sand to almost completely bury all the rocks in the tide pools where I hunt octopus, killing almost everything on all the rocks. A few months later, after the sand has washed away, all the life comes back. The water is constantly teaming with tiny planktonic larva of many (all?) species of inverts, each ready to land on an exposed bit of rock with favorable conditions, and grow. When the sand is washed away, the bare rocks will simply be repopulated, as part of a natural cycle. Nature can abide a few careless rock flippers, but it's still better to "tip responsibly", even if only so that the next guy can enjoy looking at the sponges you didn't kill (at least until the sand comes back).

 

[Joe-Ceph]

...TONMO could probably stand to have a stance on this... something along the lines of what was just stated, although,

I think it would be a disaster for TONMO to have a stance on anything. I think TONMO is valueable because its mission is to collect, and make accessible, the experience and knowledge of the people who keep, or are at least interested in, cephalopods. It places minimum limits on what can be said (be civil and non-commercial) and so has allowed a wealth of useful knowledge to accumulate. If TONMO starts taking stands on issues, then it's mission changes to that of an advocacy group, seeking to change people's minds, and behavior. The two missions are incompatible. If TONMO gets an agenda, then it necessarily stops welcoming some of the people that could be contributing, and starts having a bias. In short it would reduce the amount and diversity of input from contributors, and taint the credibility of the information found here. I think Tonmo should continue to be an unbiased forum that allows each of us to speak in our own voice. If Tonmo tries to speak for us with a single voice (i.e., "have a stance"), it will replace some of our voices with it's own, and the value of TONMO would be greatly diminished.

 

[Cuddlycuttlefsh]

Yes! Preserve the TOMNO forever!

Though I also have mixed feelings about this too. I would love to have a stance at this for the welfare of Octopuses (and other things that dwell in these waters).

 

[Cuddlycuttlefsh]

Back to ID

Okay anyways! Back to working on the ID! . Um, it would be helpful if I had some info on the behaviors of the octopus BEFORE it was benthic. Just so I know, was the octopus swimming more often (by jet propulsion) or was it, sorta like clinging to the water surface? I know you have many pics of the octopus resting on the bottom of the tank but thats just the tip of the iceberg. If the octo was clinging on the surface it's probably E. Dofleini, if it is swimming more than its rubescens.

 

[Taollan]

In most western states it is illegal for recreational fisherman to retain game fish live, and there are separate sets of regulations and licensing for retaining game fish for aquaria. Even though you can fish for GPOs with a fishing license doesn't mean that you can with that same license capture them for your aquaria anymore than having a valid hunting license that allows you to harvest a bull elk will also allow you to capture that elk, keep it alive, and keep it in your backyard.
Here is what I believe is the relevant line in the Oregon fishing regs:

It is unlawful to: transport live fish into, within or out of this state; hold any live fish in the waters of this state; or release or attempt to
release any live fish into the waters of this state; except as provided by OAR 635-007-0600(3)(a) for aquaria fish intended for aquaria
use and those holding a valid Fish Transport Permit.

 

[AquaticEngineer]

In most western states it is illegal for recreational fisherman to retain game fish live, and there are separate sets of regulations and licensing for retaining game fish for aquaria. Even though you can fish for GPOs with a fishing license doesn't mean that you can with that same license capture them for your aquaria anymore than having a valid hunting license that allows you to harvest a bull elk will also allow you to capture that elk, keep it alive, and keep it in your backyard.
Here is what I believe is the relevant line in the Oregon fishing regs:

As long as its for personal use and not resale, and you dont take it from one body of water to another your fine within oregon. You actually dont need any kind of shellfish license to collect a lot of things here.

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/MRP/shellfish/regulations.asp

They differentiate between fish and inverts for transport. They aren't going to make you kill and clean your clams before you take them home Same thing applies for any octopus.

Also, the fish transport permits are free to anyone who wants to apply for them. But they are really only for tracking transport of live fish for resale.

All of that changes though when you have commercial fishing licenses and permits.

On a side note, you can get a Cervid Propagation license (ie Elk, Deer) for $6.50
Business Xpress License Directory

 

[Taollan]

Good, I just wanted to make sure you had checked and weren't going to get blindsided by anything. In Washington it is a bit more restrictive in terms of octopus collection. I also think Washington may have historically had more problem with people collecting GPOs and giving them to other people for aquaria.

Oh, and while a cervid propagation license is relatively cheap, there are still a ton of hoops to jump through, including a facilities inspecition by ODF&W. So my point still stands, you can't buy a hunting license and grab a elk and throw it in your backyard. Additional licensing is required.

 

[DWhatley]

I am thinking we should copy this discussion to a thread about state collection of octopuses as it has brought out some very interesting information. We have some similar discussion and discovery about collecting bimacs in CA that I will try to coordinate and hopefully CaptFish can add some insite for FL. It is a little late for me to start trying to gather what we have tonight but I will work on it next week. I think the ethics forum is a likely place to house the collection but I am not sure of the best way to organize it. Initially, I was thinking by state but it might be best by species since the west coast rules seem to deliniate (I don't believe the East Coast does, we just have brown octopuses ).

 

[Cuddlycuttlefsh]

The sad thing is ANYONE could possibly get license to harvest wildlife from somewhere, it's like license don't mean anything.

 

[AquaticEngineer]

The sad thing is ANYONE could possibly get license to harvest wildlife from somewhere, it's like license don't mean anything.

Yes and no.

Anyone can harvest for personal use, as long as they stay true to the set limits. Honestly if you wanted to try and "work" the system and collect as many octopus as possible here in Oregon it would be a full time job that didnt pay. I've been looking for a juvenile while tidepooling here for almost 2 years and this is the first one I have found. A diver would have much more luck I'm sure than I have thus far.

Now as far as being able to collect more than 1 a day, you'll need at bare minimum a commercial fishing license, and with that alone you are restricted to selling only to wholesale fish buyers. So you'd be looking at about $2 a pound if your lucky

BTW, this only applies if your fishing for them in the Ocean.
There is no commercial harvest allowed inside of Oregon coastal bays or withing 200 yards of man made structures that extend into the ocean (jettys). In order to collect anything commercially from the intertidal zone you have to submit a paper that includes every species you intend to collect along with GPS coordinates of every site you intend to collect from. Then they will review what you've submitted and issue permits with designated limits for each species you've submitted.

So yes, anyone can get a license to collect what ever they want. But only someone who is dedicated enough to take the right path will actually do it. Most people wont. You have to do the ground work to know where, what, and when things are there to collect, and then fork out the $$$ for all the permits to collect, transport, house, and then sell them.

The only reason I've been able to do this was because I was already doing most of this just as a hobby.

 

[ceph]

The sad thing is ANYONE could possibly get license to harvest wildlife from somewhere, it's like license don't mean anything.

Dive gear is $$$.
Octopuses are hard to find.
Live octopuses do not ship especially well.
Octopuses do not live in groups.
Octopuses do not mate in large groups.
Octopus meat does not sell for much.

In most cases, logistics limits the collection of octopuses more than anything else.

James

 

[Cuddlycuttlefsh]

Well those factors that made octopus fishing unreasnable are some of the things I'm very enlighted about, but what about worldwide fishing on not just cephalopods but swordfish, tuna, etc? There are studys that show 90% of all Swordfish and Tuna were taken from the ocean, I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but octopuses are the just part of the many wildlife targeted for fishing in the human sociaty.