Bimac Hatchlings

[SueAndHerZoo]

Thanks, D, for all the information and research you provide. It's truly priceless and so very helpful. I so wish I had spent more time examining the dead hatchlng for missing tentacles. When I had him on a paper towel I did take a toothpick and try to separate his tentacles but he was pretty clamped and sticky and slimy so I didn't pursue it. Now I am thinking had I put him in a container of water I would have been better able to evaluate the condition of his body. I HOPE I don't get another opportunity, but if I lose another one I will try harder to examine it.

So at this point my loss could have either been a sibling attack or a water change. Why do you think you had negative effects after water changes.... one of the parameters was too far off from the removed water? I have to wonder which one... temperature? Salinity? Ph? I guess these are things we will (hopefully) learn as more of us experiment and journal. But since I only lost one to a water change and since I did find a sibling in the breeder trap with the dead one, I think I'm going to lean towards this death being caused by a sibling attack.

Headcount summary: I picked up 7 hatchlings 6 days ago, gave two to a fellow reefer (they are still alive) lost one of mine to death, have three in three separate breeding traps, and have one somewhere in the main tank (hiding in rock).

Sue

 

[DWhatley]

I have no real clue Sue but if I were to pick one standard parameter it would be temperature. I am inclined to think the Caribbean hatchlings need warmer water than the adults but that is second guessing and I did not record temps to make any kind of meanigful statement. Hopefully I will be doing this again in a few months and make more technical recordings of the various environments I set up. Thales is seeing that the larger tank is producing the best results with the O. vulgaris and that matched my experience as well. It is unclear why this would be the case but only one of my small environments had living animals for more than a few days. There is a big difference in the small (vulgaris) and large (briareus) hatchling needs but the better longevity for both in the initial weeks seems to suggest larger, well established, stable environments are part of the equation.

Should you lose another, you can put it in alcohol (isopropol 90% or strong vodka) to preserve it for examination. Long term preservation should be done with formalin but if you only want to examine it and have it available for awhile, alcohol will work well for the hatchlings.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Headcount update: Picked up seven hatchlings from Boston 8 days ago, gave two to a fellow reefer, lost one of mine (assuming sibling attack) and FINALLY found the one that has been roaming free somewhere in the main tank. I now have four separate breeder traps each containing one hatchling.

I decided I really like the white mesh traps better than the clear plastic ONES but could only get my hands on two locally. This weekend I made two homemade ones out of filter media bags I had laying around. I cut a piece of round plastic (disposable container lids) and put it at the bottom of the media bag to give it some structure and have the drawstrings hanging over the side of the tank and secured in place by tying them to a plastic suction cup. Will try to get photos tonight.

I think, if these guys continue to survive, that I need to buy a better camera. Even with all the micro settings on mine I can't seem to get close enough without blurring.
Sue

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Headcount update: Picked up seven, gave two away, and lost my second hatchling last night so I'm down to three live hatchlings.

If we can learn something from each loss then it makes all the effort and journaling worth it, so my theory as to why this one died is this: he is the one that was "lost" in the main tank for most of the time (had escaped his breeder trap) and I only finally found him less than 24 hours before he died. My assumption is that since he was loose in the large tank he wasn't eating as well as the ones in the breeder traps. Upon examination of his body he is much smaller than the others and the only reason I probably was able to find him at all was because he was no longer hiding in the live rock but rather lying on the bare bottom tank under an arched rock. He was probably half-dead when I found him.

So, it seems the small, individual habitats have a better survival rate than the free-roaming hatchlings. Or at least that's my guess at this point in my very limited experience.

Any other theories or thoughts are very welcomed.

Saddened, but learning......
Sue

 

[DWhatley]

With a bare tank, that could well be the case but in a fully aged tank, I would expect it to find food (not recommending your change but analyzing the starvation thought). I kept a mercatoris hatchling that continually refused to stay in a breeder net placed in a mature tank (hence the name Wiley). I would spot him from time to time (usually just after posting I was sure he had died). Somewhere around 5 months he finally came out into the open and "let" me capture him (I think I had stopped feeding the tank with octo food for a week or so after not seeing him for a month). He lived to full life expectancy in a smaller tank after capture. He might have been a bit smaller than his sibblings but not much.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

With a bare tank, that could well be the case but in a fully aged tank, I would expect it to find food (not recommending your change but analyzing the starvation thought).

Wow.... I KNOW I posted a reply to this right after you posted it but it's not here! Lost in cyberspace, I guess. Actually the tank they are living in pretty much IS a bare tank. It's a 20 gallon that I threw together quickly when I heard I was getting hatchlings. It's bare bottom and only has a few small pieces of live rock. I have a huge Fluval running for filtration and siphon any debris out of the tank daily. I'll never know for sure why the "escaped" hatchling died but I wouldn't be surprised if it were starvation. The "live rock" in the tank isn't very "live".


I can't believe it's been two weeks since I posted an update! I guess it's true what they say about time flying even faster as you get older. The three hatchlings are still all alive (and well?). It's difficult to tell if they're healthy or not because I don't know how they should act or what they should look like but the fact that they're alive and getting bigger must be a good sign.

I really can't tell what they're eating. I offer them (twice a day) several different things and leave it in their individual breeder traps for several hours before removing it. They might be nibbling on stuff (they MUST be) but I never actually see them eat. As a matter of fact, the one thing I push on them the most is frozen mysis and even though they all grab at it (from the end of a pipette) they also seem to push it away immediately afterwards. (shrug) I froze some fiddler crabs and the next day broke one apart and offered it to the hatchlings. Two of them ran away from it and the third one, each time I would place a piece in his "den", would pick it up and throw it out. I think I like him the best. Mr. Attitude.

I have never seen any of the three ink.... is that a good sign or a bad sign? Obviously I have stressed them on occasion with my poking and prodding and cleaning and would have expected a cloudy reaction at least once. They still seem to want to run and hide when I show up for feedings...... amazing how personally I take it. LOL

I keep live brine shrimp in with them most of the time only because I think they need something alive to keep them amused and teach them how to chase, but hopefully that's not the only thing they're eating. The live mysids I put in there twice a week disappear but I'm not sure if they're getting eaten or dying.

I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and hope for the best and maybe in a few weeks they will be big enough to live with live fidders and figure out what to do with them. Right now, I'm afraid of which would be the prey and which would be the predator.
Sue

 

[SabrinaR]

I would say you are doing a pretty damned fine job. How much growth would you say you have noticed? If they are growing then they are obviously eating something. If you can get some live pods that will help with food diversity since you arent able to actually see them eat. Nancy (one of the staff) kept a baby octopus in a fully matured tank for months and was completely unaware of it. She had put it in there when it was TINY like a day old tiny. They had given it up for dead until 4 months or so later they look into the tank and there is this octopus sitting there looking at them. I think they scare it a bit too lol. It is believed that it lived off of pods as she never feed the tank.

 

[corw314]

It's good they have not inked because this means you have not startled them. And I think they must be eating something, I would guess the live Mysids. Cheering you on!!!!

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

I was able to get a few minutes of video on "the kids" last night. They're getting so big!

 

[Lmecher]

Your videos are great! The first one, could not figure out what that thing was. First thought it was a deformed thumb, then an ear. Second video cleared it up.
That was just too cute when the inklet hid in the shell. They are getting big. I was hoping it would get that shrimp. Have they taken any yet? I am very excited for you, keep up the good work!

 

[SabrinaR]

The inklets are SO CUTE! Keep it up, your babies are doing great.

 

[sedna]

OMG, thy are so cute! On the one hand they do look big compared to small egg babies, but still it's funny to think they are looking "big!" Great work, Sue!

 

[DWhatley]

Loved the second one in particular (both we fun of course). I am really bumbed right now about not being able to get Cyclop-eeze. It has just disappeared and I don't like having to find an alternative if I have hatchlings in a couple of months and would like to be able to make it available to Cassy now as it is the one thing I have see all ages eat.

 

[SabrinaR]

Are you going to pick up more babies from Boston? If so when will that happen?

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

First thought it was a deformed thumb, then an ear. I was hoping it would get that shrimp. Have they taken any yet?

Thanks for the laugh.... doesn't everyone keep "ears" in their hatchling tank???? It's the perfect place for them to curl up and hide. No, I have no shrimp eaters yet. There are two living in each of the bimac nurseries and the shrimp continue to live, unharmed.

OMG, thy are so cute! On the one hand they do look big compared to small egg babies, but still it's funny to think they are looking "big!" Great work, Sue!

I know what you mean - when I talk about how BIG they are getting and then show a co-worker a video, they look at me like I'm nuts. I guess we have to forgive the naivety of non-octo people.

Are you going to pick up more babies from Boston? If so when will that happen?

I'm on the fence about that, Sabrina. I had every intention of getting 10 or 12 new hatchlings but now I'm having second (and third) thoughts. I really didn't expect my three to live and thrive so was eager about a "second chance" to try again with a new batch. However, if these three continue to live (fingers crossed) then I am going to have a hard enough time accommodating three adults, let alone MORE than that! I have sent the Boston student a couple of good leads of places that were interested in taking some so hopefully she's qualifying good homes for a lot of them. I haven't heard from her in about a week and hesitate to contact her because I don't know what to tell her yet. If she should reach out to me and say she's desperate for a good home, of course I'll find a way, but if she can find good places for them I think I'll pass since these three cuties are (seemingly) doing well.

Then there's the part of me that says..... "what an opportunity - how can you pas it up??????"