• Looking to buy a cephalopod? Check out Tomh's Cephs Forum, and this post in particular shares important info about our policies as it relates to responsible ceph-keeping.

Beginner!

the reason that I suggested that you initially stock your tank with "hearty inexpensive fish" was to recommend that as a method of "cycling" your tank, not as a way of developing your aquarium keeping skills. Both of those are good things to do before you get an octopus, but some method of completely cycling your tank is mandatory. I think that you need to read several complete articles or book chapters that describe the nitrogen cycle in detail, so that you can come to fully understand it. I have some words of warning about what you might find online about "cycling" your tank:
The phrase "cycle your tank" is unfortunate, because it implies that after you watch (using test kits) the ammonia level rise, and then fall, over a period of days, followed by the nitrite level rising, and then falling (those two events constitute a "cycle") that your tank is ready for animals. A better term than "cycle" would be "grow a colony of denitrifying bacteria that is large enough to consume all of the waste my animals will produce per day". You see, at the end of a "cycle" you will have grown a population of denitrifying bacteria, but it might be a small population. The bacteria multiply in numbers until they run out of either "food" (animal waste) or surface area to live on (the pours on the surface of live rock for example). Assuming you've supplied enough surface area to live on (live rock (1 to 1.5 pounds per gallon?) or other bio-filter media (like the sponges in an Aqua-Clear hang-on filter) with good water flow over it's surface) you need only to supply a steady daily amount of animal waste for the bacteria colony to eat. Over a period of a week or two (or five) the bacteria colony will reproduce (or die off) and stabilize at a population level that matches the amount of food available. When your ammonia and nitrite levels measure consistently at zero, you will know the population size has stabilized to match the amount of waste that is entering the system every day (that marks the end of a cycle). The reason I suggested that you keep a few tough inexpensive fish after your first "cycle" is so that the fish will provide a steady amount of fish poop every day to keep your bacteria colony alive and fed. It's not a lot of fun for the fish to live in a tank while the ammonia and/or nitrite levels are above zero, but if they are tough, they'll get through it, and if they are cheap, you won't go broke if some of them ie along the way (I know, this is a harsh method, but it works, and I'm okay with it). After the ammonia and nitrite levels stabilize to match the rate of incoming fish poop, you can add another fish. That will increase the amount of poop per day beyond what the bacteria colony is able to handle, which will start another little cycle (rising, then falling levels of ammonia, and then nitrite) as the bacteria colony multiplies and grows enough to match the new higher amount of available food (fish poop). Then, after the ammonia and nitrite levels stabliize again, you add another fish (or two), and measure, and wait, and after a days/weeks, the levels will stabilize again. You keep doing this process of adding fish, and waiting until for the next little cycle to finish, until the amount of waste that your total population of fish is producing per day, is roughly equal to, or greater than, the amount of waste that you expect your octopus to produce (assume that an octopus produces about 1.5 times as much waste as an equal weight of fish would produce). Then, remove all the fish, and put your octopus in the tank, all on the same day. The octopus waste will replace the fish waste as a source of food for your colony of denitrifying bacteria, and since the size of the colony is already large enough to handle at least that amount of waste, your octopus wont' have to live through another cycle (toxicly high ammonia and nitrite levels). Get it? Just "cycling" your tank is not enough. You need to increase the amount of animal waste per day, which will trigger a series of cycles, until your bacteria colony is large enough to deal with all the octopus poop (and uneaten food, etc) that your octopus will produce per day. Most descriptions of how to cycle your tank don't explain that, and it's easy to miss the point of cycling, and put sensitive animals like octopus through a potentially deadly cycle (ammonia spike).

I didn't mention it, but you need to also test for nitrate (in addition to ammonia and nitrite) and do regular (weekly?) partial water changes to keep the nitrate level below 15 (and eventually below 10). So you need to buy at least these three test kits to be able to "cycle" your tank. You'll need to work out a procedure of doing regular partial water changes, and a routine for water testing, and other regular tank maintenance. It can take a while for many people to get these habits and procedures worked out, and until you get good at doing these things on schedule, without fail, your animals might have to live through some hard times. That is why Tonmo people recommend that you get some marine aquarium experience before you get an octopus. That way you can make your mistakes and learn the ropes without risking expensive delicate animals like octopus (and without getting discouraged as a result). So, after you get all finished with all the little cycles, and you are ready to swap your large population of hearty inexpensive fish out and put an octopus in, consider waiting on the octopus, and instead getting some other, less expensive, inverts to practice on as CuttleGirl suggested.
 
First question is about the live rock during the cycling process, should the live rock be present during the process. I've read that it shouldn't be present and i have read that it is important for it to be present during the process. It said on an online article that if i have the live rock present it will kill the seeds possiblitly. I understand the rock is important to the bacteria but is there any point in time that my cured, seeded, pours live rock not be present. Also another thing i found online that contradicts itself is doing a water change at the end of the cycle. It's seems redundents to replace a large amount of saltwater after spending 4 to 6 weeks building up the bacteria. I would assume doing this could possibly kill some of the bacteria. Finally there seems to be different mentions about have the filter and protein skimmer on during this process.

I am researching more about the cycling of the tank and found many different methods and have read that there is no exact science to this. I understand that you need to raise the amonia levels to start, then the nirtrite, but is there any definate markers to when the reaction is finished?The process stated above about purchasing sounds like a great idea but what do you do with the fish when you put the octo into the tank? just flush them?I also understand that there is solutions you can purchase at pet stores that simulate and even start this grow of these bacterias. Has anyone had experience good or bad with using these? It says that there will need to be constant weekly treatments does this sound like it might work. link --> http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3433706
 
In most cases the live bacteria in a bottle are close to snake oil. I say close because IF you actually get live bacteria (it usually dies quickly and most bottled products do not actually contain anything alive when you get it), it still has to be fed to grow. There are a few products harvested by the manufacture and shipped direct that might have an advantage but there is no real reason to use any additive. The one exception might be an emergency new tank condition where livestock might die because of a tank failure but even then I would not likely use anything from a store.

As you are finding out, there are about as many ways to cycle a tank as there are tank keepers and many of the methods work.

IME, if you are using live rock (the only way I will do a saltwater tanks, and I only use very fresh live rock) the live rock needs to be in the tank from the beginning it will provide the bacteria to begin your cycle and it is where your bacteria will grow. With fresh or uncycled live rock, you do not need fish at all (and there are other ways to cycle a tank without live rock that don't require fish but it takes much longer to build the bacteria base). Joe-Ceph does not use LR but creates it by raising the bacteria levels (any porous surface will become the equivalent of live rock over time and Joe also uses bio balls to help accomplish the bacteria build up where I rely on the LR I start with for all my biological filtration).

The water is not part of (or at best a tiny small part of) your bacteria culture, it is the substrate (all surface area, including rocks and anything you place on the aquarium floor) that nurtures the bacteria growth and it is fed by decaying matter, hence the need to add something live to feed (I use a clean up crew for this continuation of the cycle). The ammonia->nitrite->nitrate process leaves nitrate waste and that also needs to be reduced so clean as the tank becomes mature. Sand contributes little to the cycle but an argonite sand will help stabilize your PH. I never use live sand and refresh my sand after two or three years. Most people leave the skimmer off and don't stir up the sand the first few weeks, but again that depends a lot on what you start with. If you use uncycled LR, I recommend running the skimmer even at the beginning.
 
This is an over simplification, but it helps to imagine that there are two, and only two species of bacteria that will inhabit your live rock. Let's call them species A and species B. They both need a lot of surface area to live on (like porous live rock), so it makes no sense to cycle a tank without providing lots of available surface area for bacteria to live on, but there is one big difference. Species A eats ammonia (animal poop, rotting food, etc.) and converts it to less-toxic nitrite. Species B eats nitrite and converts it to not-very-toxic nitrate (then you do partial water changes to keep the nitrate level low). So feeding your animals produces food for species A, and species A produces food for Species B. Very high levels of ammonia are great for species A, but toxic to species B (and most marine life). That is why you will hear people say that you don't want to put live rock (that already has a good bacteria colony on it, and maybe a bunch of little marine animals too) in your tank while it is cycling, because the initial spike in ammonia, which will cause species A to rapidly increase its population, will kill a lot of the species B bacteria (and other life) on the live rock. Some species B will survive, and the spike of nitrite that results from species A consuming all of that ammonia will provide enough food for species B to rapidly increase its population back to where it was before it died back, and beyond. Let's use the term "base rock" to mean "dead live rock" or very porous rock (limestone) that could support a large colony of bacteria, but isn't right now. It's obviously okay to cycle your tank with lots of base rock, because there are no species B bacteria, or other animals, to kill anyway. On the other hand, it's also okay to cycle your tank with real live rock, as long as you only gradually increase the bio load (amount of animals living in your tank). That will produce only a moderate and gradual increase in ammonia, not a big spike.

I think you should listen to D. She knows what she's doing, and articulates it well. As she said, I don't use live rock, so I'm just talking theory, to help you understand the process. Her real world experience is a better practical guide. I use bio-balls in a wet/dry trickle filter, because I thought tropical live rock would look wrong in my bimac tank, and I wanted to use local rock (non porous, so useless for bio-filtration). I'm also a tight-wad, and a dIY guy, and not paying $5 - $9 per gallon for a tank full of live rock appealed to me (bio balls are almost free on the used market). The principal is the same, regardless of whether you use live rock or bio-balls (although I think live rock has distinct advantages if you want to use it and can afford it)

As far as "seeding" the bacteria colony is concerned, I've read that the only seeding products that are alive, and work, are super expensive, and shipped to you cold, and overnight. Even if they work, at best they just save time, and are certainly not required. The bacteria species (A and B) are in the air all the time, in small numbers, and will reproduce wherever the conditions are sufficient to support them (space to live on, and a steady source of food). You should think of "fresh live rock" (as D puts it) as being a bustling bacteria small town, and as such, it is a great way to save some time, and jump start the process. In essence, starting with live rock, from an established tank, or recently from the ocean, will start you bacteria population through mass immigration, as opposed to starting with just a hand full of settlers (from the air) and waiting for them to reproduce several generations to build up their numbers. Either way (or both ways) the bacteria will eventually reproduce until they either fill up all the space or use up all the food per day. Then you're cycle is done.
 

Shop Amazon

Shop Amazon
Shop Amazon; support TONMO!
Shop Amazon
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.
Back
Top