• Looking to buy a cephalopod? Check out Tomh's Cephs Forum, and this post in particular shares important info about our policies as it relates to responsible ceph-keeping.

Arm & Hammer (NEED HELP BAD)

Tetra test kits are not so good. Poor quality test kits can do more damage than good because they get people chasing numbers.

There are no quick fixes (except 100% water changes with aerated, aged water and that is only so so) in saltwater. Things take time, and rapid changes, even if you are changing the 'bad' water into 'good' water can often have a detrimental effect on livestock.

Don't trust labels on saltwater (or freshwater) chemicals because there are intended to sell the item, not educate the buyer. Many products make all kinds of claims - some are outright false while some only make sense if you understand the closed environment as a whole. In saltwater, I would suggest only doing water changes and not adding any chemicals until you have a good grasp of saltwater fundamentals because it is so easy for the chemicals to do more harm than good.
Amquel is not an additive, it is a water conditioner intended to condition tap water. I would bet it gummed up the octos gills, inhibiting gas exchange.
If you want to try the octo again (I doubt it will be there when you check on him) I would do a 100% waterchange - where are you getting your water?
 
Starting over again is good advice.

I think we all need to be aware of the special problems our younger octo keepers have. They're short on cash and have no credit cards - we can order online with no problem, they can't. That means they're restricted to whatever they can find in their LFS, and even getting to the LFS may not be so easy. Tetra kits are often carried by LFSs.

As for the test kits, Tetra is a brand many start out with. In time Nick, you can read the reviews of tests on Reef Central. For pH you may end up with a pH meter, but that needs to be calibrated once a month.

I hope we can get some answer on the seawater that Nick is using - how long can he store it - or does he have to go back to the ocean every time he needs a water change. Having it in an home tank must be different from the large quantities that circulate and is filtered in labs and breeding facilities.

Nancy
 
Yeah the octopus is gone so I can start over. Unfortunately my dad went fishing so i cant do any large water changes for like a month. Hes going somewhere interesting though I cant remember what it is... Its like an island or somthing where pelagic fish gather. Hes going to catch me some stuff and bring it back alive for the tank. Hopefully he will have a squid or somthing.
 
Perhaps it would help to spend some time keeping saltwater animals that are easier to deal with for a while to get the hang of keeping a saltwater tank. The idea of putting wild caught animals into unstable tanks and seeing if they make it seems at odds with the purposes of this site.
 
Dont you think it can be stabalized in a month? Plus my fish are never unhealthy. The only things I ever have trouble with is cephs. And the occasional thing sucked up by the filter... Besides, trying to keep a single squid that would have otherwise died after jumping aboard the boat in mass isnt really doing much harm. My dad just just takes the odd one and puts it in a bucket with constant waterflow and tries to bring it to me. It cant hurt to try right? Besides that the crew eats them. I think my tank is probably a better fate...
 
Tako_Poke said:
Dont you think it can be stabalized in a month? Plus my fish are never unhealthy.

Maybe, maybe not as the cycle varies from tank to tank.
I don't really know what your experience with saltwater is, but from your posts that I have read it feels like there are gaps in your understanding of a saltwater system. It is the understanding that I think is key, as there are a million ways to skin a tank that all work if the basics are understood. :smile:

I think keeping cephs is more akin to keeping corals than fish. Fish are relatively easy, cephs and corals need more. Not more equipment necessarily, but a greater depth of understanding regarding what these animals need in a captive environment.

The only things I ever have trouble with is cephs. And the occasional thing sucked up by the filter...

This is one of those things that makes me feel there are gaps. If fish have been sucked up before, I would think the danger would have been eliminated.

Besides, trying to keep a single squid that would have otherwise died after jumping aboard the boat in mass isnt really doing much harm. My dad just just takes the odd one and puts it in a bucket with constant waterflow and tries to bring it to me. It cant hurt to try right? Besides that the crew eats them. I think my tank is probably a better fate...

It depends on your perspective. Being caught and killed quickly vs being transported to a tank that is unsuitable so the animal dies over time due to starvation or injury. I really do mean that it is a matter of perspective. Is it ok to poorly treat an animal because it would have died anyway? I think that is a personal decision. I do need to add that I have done my share of horrible things to animals as I was growing up and learning. I am now ashamed of many of them. :smile:
 
Thales said:
Maybe, maybe not as the cycle varies from tank to tank.
I don't really know what your experience with saltwater is, but from your posts that I have read it feels like there are gaps in your understanding of a saltwater system. It is the understanding that I think is key, as there are a million ways to skin a tank that all work if the basics are understood. :smile:

I think keeping cephs is more akin to keeping corals than fish. Fish are relatively easy, cephs and corals need more. Not more equipment necessarily, but a greater depth of understanding regarding what these animals need in a captive environment.



This is one of those things that makes me feel there are gaps. If fish have been sucked up before, I would think the danger would have been eliminated.



It depends on your perspective. Being caught and killed quickly vs being transported to a tank that is unsuitable so the animal dies over time due to starvation or injury. I really do mean that it is a matter of perspective. Is it ok to poorly treat an animal because it would have died anyway? I think that is a personal decision. I do need to add that I have done my share of horrible things to animals as I was growing up and learning. I am now ashamed of many of them. :smile:

So tell me... How does one go about aquiring this "understanding?" Could you reccomend me some books? Because your right, my understanding of aquariums is very limited. Primitive at best... But im working on it, and I could use some guidence.

As for those fish that got sucked up, I refuse to take the blame. In fact the first time it happened it was my seahare. I managed to save it and then it just went and did it again! It deliberatly stuck its head in the filter! I guess that comes along with the territory of not having a brain lol... :roll: Plus making the filter seahare proof would mean diminishing the quality of its filtration. Im not going to worry about it now that the stupid one kicked the bucket.

And lastly, I do beleive that dying my way is better than being killed the crews way... Hooks, cleavers, and boiling pots... Also my dad feeds them crabs. He says they eat them and each other lol. They usually die from bubbles in his care. Is that painfull?
 
Originally posted by Tako Poke In fact the first time it happened it was my seahare. I managed to save it and then it just went and did it again! It deliberatly stuck its head in the filter! I guess that comes along with the territory of not having a brain lol...

Well, sea hares do have a bit of a brain... but mine had the same obsession with being sucked into the pump, only mine would crawl over the overflow, down into the sump and over to the intake of the pump. Many survived this death-defying act and I eventually covered the overflow with frame made of pvc and window screen. The sea hares would still crawl over the overflow and then hang out until I rescued them...

Are you near the Waikiki Aquarium? They have a lot of great educational programs. I think you have to be 18 to volunteer, but that would be a great way to learn about aquariums!
 
cuttlegirl said:
Well, sea hares do have a bit of a brain... but mine had the same obsession with being sucked into the pump, only mine would crawl over the overflow, down into the sump and over to the intake of the pump. Many survived this death-defying act and I eventually covered the overflow with frame made of pvc and window screen. The sea hares would still crawl over the overflow and then hang out until I rescued them...

Are you near the Waikiki Aquarium? They have a lot of great educational programs. I think you have to be 18 to volunteer, but that would be a great way to learn about aquariums!

:lol: Seahares are so strange... Im on the opposite side of the island. But I go to school over in town. Hey heres an idea! Since I really need a job maybe they would hire me to mop floors after school or somthing! Clean things and hang out in the aquarium! Now theres a job I wouldnt mind...
 
Tako_Poke said:
So tell me... How does one go about aquiring this "understanding?" Could you reccomend me some books? Because your right, my understanding of aquariums is very limited. Primitive at best... But im working on it, and I could use some guidence.

Great! IMO, the best way is to plan out a tank that will house some hardier animals, and then move up. The hardest part is taking your time.

Online forums like TONMO and www.reefs.org are great places to get info. I suggest head over the reefs.org and browse the new reefers section. You will get a whole lot of questions answered just by reading what other new aquarists are asking. The only reason I recommend a reef keeping site over TONMO for newbie info is because there are many more people there in the same situation as you are in than there are here. (Don't worry Tony - I send people from RDO to TONMO all the time!)
I think the best books are 'The Reef Aquarium' vol. 1, 2 and 3. In fact one of the authors is at the Waikiki Aquarium. Perhaps if you went there, they may have a copy you can look at. They are pretty expensive, but they are one of the only books that I like to recommend.

As for those fish that got sucked up, I refuse to take the blame. In fact the first time it happened it was my seahare. I managed to save it and then it just went and did it again! It deliberatly stuck its head in the filter! I guess that comes along with the territory of not having a brain lol... :roll: Plus making the filter seahare proof would mean diminishing the quality of its filtration. Im not going to worry about it now that the stupid one kicked the bucket.

Actually, its pretty easy to critter proof a filter. Get a filter sponge, like the ones used for Aquaclear hang on filters, cut it in the middle of one of the ends and shove it over the intake of the filter. Then rinse it once a week. This kind of prevention is doubly important for soft bodied creatures like seahares and cephs.
I believe that whatever happens to animals that we choose to remove from the wild and put put in our glass boxes is completely our responsibility.

And lastly, I do beleive that dying my way is better than being killed the crews way... Hooks, cleavers, and boiling pots... Also my dad feeds them crabs. He says they eat them and each other lol. They usually die from bubbles in his care. Is that painfull?

As I said, that is something for everyone to decide for themselves. :smile:
 
Thales said:
Great! IMO, the best way is to plan out a tank that will house some hardier animals, and then move up. The hardest part is taking your time.

Online forums like TONMO and www.reefs.org are great places to get info. I suggest head over the reefs.org and browse the new reefers section. You will get a whole lot of questions answered just by reading what other new aquarists are asking. The only reason I recommend a reef keeping site over TONMO for newbie info is because there are many more people there in the same situation as you are in than there are here. (Don't worry Tony - I send people from RDO to TONMO all the time!)
I think the best books are 'The Reef Aquarium' vol. 1, 2 and 3. In fact one of the authors is at the Waikiki Aquarium. Perhaps if you went there, they may have a copy you can look at. They are pretty expensive, but they are one of the only books that I like to recommend.



Actually, its pretty easy to critter proof a filter. Get a filter sponge, like the ones used for Aquaclear hang on filters, cut it in the middle of one of the ends and shove it over the intake of the filter. Then rinse it once a week. This kind of prevention is doubly important for soft bodied creatures like seahares and cephs.
I believe that whatever happens to animals that we choose to remove from the wild and put put in our glass boxes is completely our responsibility.



As I said, that is something for everyone to decide for themselves. :smile:

Great! Ill head on over to the library tomorow and see if I can get them there. Ill also try this new forum. Hopefully with these tools Ill be adept in the basics of aquariums soon.
-Thanks Nick
 
Oh - and ask here! To make responses more useful, you might want to try to be very specific with each thread, don't assume that people have read all your threads, and try to give as much information as you can.

Try to get any saltwater books from the library - but before you believe what they say, ask if the books are considered 'good' first!

ROCK ON!

:smile:
 
Thales said:
Oh - and ask here! To make responses more useful, you might want to try to be very specific with each thread, don't assume that people have read all your threads, and try to give as much information as you can.

Try to get any saltwater books from the library - but before you believe what they say, ask if the books are considered 'good' first!

ROCK ON!

:smile:

I want to applaud this thread's positive direction... and add that there are a number of folks here trying to learn the ropes, so it may sometimes be good to talk with each other, answer each others' questions, and whatnot, since sometimes it's easier to talk with someone else who's learning now a bit before asking the experts. Not that the experts don't want to help, but sometimes they may be frustrated trying to explain the basics all the time, and I know several of you are trying to learn the ins and outs of tank setup and water parameters right now!

Also, looking for older threads of people who were in the same place some time ago can sometimes lead to insights and answers, too!

ROCK ON indeed!
 

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