Abdopus eggs !!! Help

Discussion in 'Octopus Care' started by octo.., Jul 9, 2012.

  1. octo..

    octo.. O. bimaculoides Registered

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    My male Abdopus turned out to be a female and has laid many eggs in her cave:goofysca: She has been showing very strange behavior. When she started brooding she blocked up her den for two days without coming out at all, then she was out for a few days taking little swims across the tank and then would retreat back to the den to clean the eggs and then go back out. When she comes out she greedily accepts food and hunts the other fish in the tank strange??? :bugout:

    I am going to try and rear the eggs I know that it is almost impossible to do with the small egg species but I will try.
    What I have is this food Its called Coral Smoothie it contains nine types of macroalgae, Copepods, Copepod eggs, Baby muscles, Baby Clams, Artemia Naupilli, Squid, and fish eggs. I am also going to use this Phytoplankton mix so I can make the Babies feel more at home, and give the prey some food to eat in the tank if they arent eaten. And therefore wont rot at the bottom of the tank.

    Please tell me if you have any suggestions because I need all the help I can get thank you.
     
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  2. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Please post a comment or two on giar's thread and keep each other notified of your attempts and progress as he(?) is in a similar situation with a macropus (from a similar area and also small egg). The more we can share the better! Photos of development and number of successful days with the environment and foods is especially helpful for all of us.
     
  3. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    What else is in the tank?
     
  4. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    There are a few instances of females eating for a short time while brooding but most stop once the eggs are laid. She may or may not eat the soft parts but I believe she is protecting her eggs and not hunting for food. It is likely she is trying to eliminate predators. Fish are not recommended as tank mates for octopuses and you may have problems with them picking on her or eating the eggs. They will definitely eat the hatchlings at birth.
     
  5. octo..

    octo.. O. bimaculoides Registered

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    I had 6 damselfish that were all crammed into a five gallon tank at the pet store so I bought them as a marine fish food. But Mohammed really liked them and they swam around with him. I saw no Nips or bites on Mo. Then on the third day three of them disappeared. I know I am not supposed to have damselfish in the tank I didnt think that Mo was a female at the time I dont have any other established reef tanks so I cant move them. I think having a few predators in the tank may slim down the numbers of offspring and give the babies an similar environment to that of the ocean.
     
  6. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Sorry octo.. but I can't agree with that thinking. A home aquarium in no way mimics the ocean :soapbox:, starting with the obvious size difference. Just using that single component, consider that in the wild many of the hatchlings will be eaten at hatching but there is enough space and current to disburse them to allow a few to survive their first hour. In the situation you present, they are nothing more than fish food like you provide for the fish at dinner time.
     
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  7. OB

    OB Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    Every single serious study to date has shown that the most likely viable food source for small egg paralarvae is/contains crab zoeae. Most other forms of simulated plankton have turned out to be a wasted effort.

    Specific paper on the topic to help you along:

    Iglesiasa J.; F.J. Sáncheza, J.G.F. Bersanob, J.F. Carrascoc, J. Dhontd, L. Fuentesa, F. Linarese, J.L. Muñozf, S. Okumurag, J. Rooh, T. van der Meereni, E.A.G. Vidalj and R. Villanuevak (2007) "Rearing of Octopus vulgaris paralarvae: Present status, bottlenecks and trends" Aquaculture, 266 (1-4): 1–15

    For your perusal and continued education: :grad:

    http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/extension/journals.htm
     
  8. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    I reread the article (it has been awhile since I last read it and needed to review before comment :old:) and the conclusion suggest that live shrimp may be an equal substitute for crab zoea. The use of "live shrimp" and copepods may have been interchangeable as he mentions specific copepods in several cases as well a mysis. Throughout the experiments enriched brine (at different stages) was used for quantity and expense reduction but the paper is clear that brine as an only food is unsuccessful.
     
  9. brent&kitty420

    brent&kitty420 O. bimaculoides Registered

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    Where would I get the crab eggs? Or larval shrimp/crab?
     
  10. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Have a look at the afore mentioned thread for some ideas that we have been discussing. He has come up with several thoughts and will be trying a mix from an eBay supplier. It is more likely that live shrimp can be tried over crab hatchlings (the paper only mentions new hatched and not eggs but one would suspect eggs would be equal IF you can keep them suspended. Cuttles have not been good about taking dead food until about 2 months, coinsiding with settlement time of the pelagic hatchlings becoming benthic). Mysis were also mentioned as a possibility for live shrimp and they are successfully used with cuttlefish (but bendensis cuttles are 100 times larger ... well 10 times anyway). I have had some success getting peppermint shrimp to spawn by keeping a pair in a breeder net (WITH A TOP - they will jump and will eat the hatchlings) and feeding them heavily. This will not produce enough food for even one but may add to the mix of what you try (one of the reasons brine are in all trials is the difficulty of providing other live food). Mysis may not be a bad choice though as the author mentioned he favored larger enriched brine and felt they were more successful than new hatch.
     
  11. octo..

    octo.. O. bimaculoides Registered

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    Will baby hatchlings eat planktonic shellfish?
     
  12. CaptFish

    CaptFish Colossal Squid Staff Member Moderator

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    Anything is worth trying. We don't know exactly what does and doesnt work. According to the studies being done farming the small egged species Crab Zoea is the best thing tried so far.
     
  13. octo..

    octo.. O. bimaculoides Registered

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    About when should I start seeing eyes in the eggs if they are fertilized
     
  14. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    Temperature and possibly other factors influence egg development. We have seen small egg species go from egg detection to hatching in as little as 10 days (often the begin date is not accurate though). I took a look at Cassy's thread (large egg and longer brood time) since I know when she produced the eggs (Mar 24), when I first found eyes (April 15) and when they hatched (May 12). So, for this set-up and a large egg species 3 weeks. You can expect less time and I would guestimate 2 weeks tops. You can start with the March 24 link above and scroll through some of the pictures to see the egg development but you will not see even that much with the small eggs because of the size difference (yours are a third or less in size). I highly recommend photographing if you can but getting a peak is difficult and disrupting the mother not recommended. Also keep in mind that the eyes are not always visible when they first appear. I am not sure why but definitely noticed that as I looked at the eggs more eyes appeared over a 5 minute period (or so).
     
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  15. brent&kitty420

    brent&kitty420 O. bimaculoides Registered

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    I had no clue eggs were even present all of a sudden babies were everywhere throughout a 2 week period we saw nothing from the mother.
     
  16. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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    This is not uncommon, especially if they brood right away since being reclusive in the initial month is normal. Brooding and about to brood is more detectable if they have been with you awhile. Normal clues are collecting small shells, trying out new dens and eating twice as much as they have been. Unfortunately, most new keepers get excited about the hearty appetite and increased activity. I think part of the reason we often see newly introduce females brood soon after introduction is the increased appetite so they are out more often and easily caught.
     
  17. octo..

    octo.. O. bimaculoides Registered

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    Mo's had the eggs for about a week so I should expect them to hatch in a few days
     
  18. octo..

    octo.. O. bimaculoides Registered

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    Mo has just stopped eating now 2 weeks into brooding
     
  19. octo..

    octo.. O. bimaculoides Registered

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    I have moved Mo and the entire den upstairs into my 30 gallon tank so the fish wont bother them. The problem is that this tank isn't exactly ready and still needs a month and a half to go so this will be interesting. Mo seems to be doing fine up there she seems to be getting impatient and just blows at the eggs as they swing back and forth. Tell me if this is normal or not. Mo's eggs are on the roof of her den and she clings onto the top of the den covering all the eggs in her mantle. She doesnt really seem to run her arms along them at all, she just blows. I also think that the eggs are fertilized because I see little brown specs on some of the eggs( is this algae or eyes?)
     
  20. DWhatley

    DWhatley Cthulhu Staff Member Moderator

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