A long extinct octopus.

Discussion in 'Cephalopod Fossils' started by Phil, May 7, 2003.

  1. Phil

    Phil Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    16
  2. tonmo

    tonmo Titanites Staff Member Webmaster Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2000
    Messages:
    8,738
    Likes Received:
    515
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Awesome! I've been interested in this (ie, what's the oldest octopus fossil?) for a long time! So elusive of course; no bones...

    Here is the English translation coutersy of AltaVista's Babelfish:

    English Translation (this takes a few moments to process)
     
  3. Clem

    Clem Architeuthis Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    49
    Re: A long extinct octopus.

    Never mind the octopod, that chestnut is spectacular.

    Could be posterior fins. That might be a second lobe folded beneath the mantle.

    The level of preservation is incredible. Entombment had to have been instantaneous. What are the fossil's dimensions?

    :?:

    Clem
     
  4. Phil

    Phil Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    16
    Just noticed, it appears to have SEVEN arms. OK, one might be concealed behind the mantle............but maybe not?

    Draw what conclusions you will!

    As for dimensions, I really don't know. I've only got this one photo to go on so your guess is as good as mine. I wish I had a few pics more to reveal.
     
  5. Phil

    Phil Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    16
    Thanks to Clem, here we have another fossil octopus: Palaeoctopus newboldi. which is from the late Cretaceous period and was found in Lebanon.

    http://owen.nhm.ac.uk/browsing/images/c278/c027828r.jpg

    This is the earliest known true octopod, apparantly the French Jurassic fossil Proteroctopus ribeti posted above is undetermined as to its classification. It has been classified as a Vampyromorph (from which the modern octopus and modern Vampyroteuthis stem), or possibly it is an even earlier true octopod.

    Some researchers have been attempting to determine the presence of ancient octopods by looking for secondary evidence; i.e by examining drill holes on fossil crustacea.

    It seems to be very hard to find info on these fossil octopi; there is not much out there....
     
  6. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    somewhere under the desert sky
    Beautiful fossils! You'd think, just once, they could find an ammonoid in some of these Lagerstätten. An ammonoid preserved in that way would answer so many questions!

    Still searching

    :ammonite:
     
  7. Phil

    Phil Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    16
    Wouldn't it just!

    Now, as mentioned on another thread somewhere, indeed there are some researchers who are sitting on a unique ammonite that does indeed display soft-bodied anatomy. If only they could be persuaded to post a photo here.........eh, Clem?

    Fingers crossed......no promises.........
     
  8. Clem

    Clem Architeuthis Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    49
    Sorry, I missed that. Got the pneumatic chisel going.

    Yes, that would be nice, wouldn't it?

    :wink:
     
  9. Phil

    Phil Colossal Squid Supporter Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ressurrecting an old thread....

    Just found this fascinating extract. It appears that Proteroctopus is no longer the oldest octopus known. There has been a discovery of a Carboniferous (!) period octopod from the Mazon Creek fauna in Illinois at the astounding date of 300 million years old. This is 160 million years older than Proteroctopus. Interesting that it shares features with the lineage that led to Spirula and the other advanced coleoids. This will obviously have a major impact on our understanding of cephalopod evolution.

    It just goes to show how poor our understanding of early coleoid evolution is, one chance find and the whole system requires major revision.

    The full article is available on the Blackwell Publishing website but will cost $25 to download. Any takers?

    http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/1475-4983.00155/abs/
     
  10. neptune

    neptune Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2004
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    0
    25 bux :shock: , tell me its worth every penny/pence.
     
  11. fluffysquid

    fluffysquid Vampyroteuthis Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2003
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    0
    wow, very interesting. heh and it didn't occur to me that I might not have to pay to see the article cuz i'm on a campus with access! Thanks for posting.
     
  12. neptune

    neptune Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2004
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    0
    share?
     
  13. um...

    um... Architeuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,968
    Likes Received:
    0
    :shock:

    :alarm:
     
  14. neptune

    neptune Haliphron Atlanticus Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2004
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    0
    did you order um?????
     
  15. michael schmidt

    michael schmidt Blue Ring Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    ammonites with soft tissue

    ammonites with soft tissue preservation are not impossible to find. i have photos of several, and even have a plate of Jurassic aged ammonites from France with soft tissue remains.

    email me for photos
     
  16. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    somewhere under the desert sky
    Great find Phil :D , I will have to wait until I can get hold of the university library's copy. Looks like a banner day for the Fossil & History Forum today, I just might get up towards 200 posts if this keeps up :jester:
     
  17. um...

    um... Architeuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,968
    Likes Received:
    0
    It would be nice to see you post more, Kevin.
     
  18. um...

    um... Architeuthis Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,968
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's a picture of Pohlsepia mazonensis, along with a brief description. This is all lifted straight from the article in Paleontology.

     
  19. Architeuthoceras

    Architeuthoceras Architeuthis Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    somewhere under the desert sky
    Thanks for that Um...

    :notworth: :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:
     

Share This Page