Can I Buy this Octo?

[DWhatley]

I wish I had encouraging words ... Hopefully it is alive and still just a shy animal and not dead or brooding.

[iAlex]

This may seem silly, but what time are you looking for him? I'm lucky if I can see mine in the daytime at all, but once the lights turn off (red LEDs still on 24/7) and midnight to one a.m. rolls around he is out just hanging onto the glass.

[SueAndHerZoo]

Yesterday was 6 weeks..... not a single sign of him. I've been very good and very patient.... haven't disturbed a single rock in the tank or done any aggressive searching...... I just keep red light on 24/7 and look for him several times throughout the day and night. I'm a night owl so late night / middle of the night viewings are frequent but unproductive. I think today I'm going to move some rocks. If nothing else I'll be able to determine if the "missing" crabs I put in there have been eaten by an octopus or if they are hiding in the rocks. At this point I'm not holding out much hope for finding a live octo but ANY evidence, either way, would be helpful.
Sue

[DWhatley]

Look in holes in the rocks with a flashlight and be very careful with them. If it is still alive then it is likely brooding. Sad that this one did not work out and I hope you are not totally discourage with trying to keep octopuses.

[SueAndHerZoo]

Look in holes in the rocks with a flashlight and be very careful with them. If it is still alive then it is likely brooding. Sad that this one did not work out and I hope you are not totally discourage with trying to keep octopuses.

Managed to resist the urge to move rocks this weekend but probably will (carefully) one night this week. I'm disappointed but not discouraged. Actually the reason I really want to know one way or another is so that I can start hunting for another one if this one is no longer with me. If at first you do not succeed . . . .
Sue

[DWhatley]

Be aware that Carol did the same when she acquired Squid. It turned out that the missing octo was brooding but it appeared the two were unaware of each other. Should awareness happen, one (likely the brooding mom at this point) will likely be eaten by the healthier animal but since it is not done intentionally, we really have not seen results to match the conjecture.

On the other hand, one member started moving rocks (fortunately taking my suggestion) and found his little guy, quite healthy and kept him for a year more. HOWEVER, this was a male O. briareus and NOT an Abdopus. Additionally it was known to be a young animal.

[SueAndHerZoo]

Are you freakin' kidding me!?!?!?! Today is exactly 12 weeks to the day since I put my new octopus into my tank. As you know if you've followed this long and boring thread, I have not seen hide nor hair of him since I released him on May 26th. Today I figured I had been patient long enough and keeping this tank running was a lost cause so I went about tearing it down. No sense in keeping it up and running with nothing in it except a few snails and ghost shrimp. I carefully removed each rock one at a time, inspecting and shaking each one as I placed it in a pail. Nothing. I caught the few ghost shrimp, tossed them in another one of my tanks, and then removed the couple shells I had in there for decoration. Guess who was in the shell? The long lost octopus, alive and well!!!! I didn't know if I should scream for joy or yell at him for being so scarce for three months. THREE MONTHS without a sighting!

For the first two months I kept throwing a few crabs in the tank once a week and never really saw them again, either, since I have so many hiding places in the rocks, but now I realize they weren't hiding - they were being eaten! This poor fella must be hungry because I haven't thrown any crab in there for the past 3-4 weeks... wonder if he caught a couple of ghost shrimp to live on.

Anyway, thanks to the little stinkin' elusive octo, I had to re-aquascape the tank all over again and return everything back to normal. And since I had stirred up so much crud by gutting the tank I did a 50% water change. Luckily I had been at the shore today and harvested a bunch of snails, ghost shrimp and crabs for my puffer so I went down to his tank and took back some of the live food I had given him and moved it to the octo tank.

Geez! 12 weeks?!?!? And, had I not decided to give up and tear down the tank, I STILL wouldn't have known he was in there. I wonder if he's going to spend his entire life hiding from me. I didn't get to see much of him.... he was very deep into the shell, the only reason I know he's in there is because I saw a skinny little tentacle come out and then when I went and defrosted a piece of raw shrimp and waved it near the shell a few more tentacles grabbed the shrimp and stick and wouldn't let go.

This hobby is amazing. (shaking head)
Sue

[DWhatley]

Not to have a good laugh at your expense but

Since it ate, it is not likely to be brooding. Now that you know where its den is and it has taken food from a stick, keep offering. Freshly killed ghost/shore shrimp on a stick are rarely refused. This is not that unusual for O. mercatoris and may be similar with Roy's guess of O. bocki. I thought Wiley was "gone" many times (tank hatched merc that escaped the net and refused to be caught until he was 5 or 6 months old and then just came to the front of the tank one day - I think he was hungry and had eaten everything in the tank). Hopefully the tank change and your feeding will allow you to see this one now. Female mercs don't change den's often but they don't come out of them much either. My last female, Sleazy (cousin to the 7 famous dwarfs according to her namer), lived her entire life in her barnacle shell at the front of the tank. We could always see her but never saw her come out.

[SueAndHerZoo]

The shell on the sand (on the left) is where I found the octo. The second photo is a closer shot of it, with crabs, snails and ghost shrimp hanging out on it.

This morning I found the shell knocked over with the opening down in the sand. Should I leave it that way or should I turn it over for him?

[DWhatley]

I would turn it over and support it with some live rock but be sure it does not receive much light if you do.

[Usktang]

Please?

I was online placing an order of fish from NY Aquatics and, as usual, I scanned his "Cephalopod" section and he has a baby octo for sale, described only as "Bali". I'm going to try to post the photo that he has on his site so hopefully it will attach to this post.

As you know I raised some BiMac hatchlings for several months and would LOVE nice led lights to try again. But since you know a lot more about the different types available, perhaps you can offer your insight as to whether or not this would be a wise purchase or not? Hopefully it's not a blue-ring, but if I could find out more specifically what type it is I will better know which tank to put him in should I purchase him.

Thanks in advance.

I have never seen such species. Where you found it?

[SueAndHerZoo]

Just thought I'd jump in with a boring update: he / she is still alive and well, but I still haven't gotten to see him / her!!!! We are now at 6.5 months since I received this elusive little bugger and no matter how many times of day and night I try to search around with a red flashlight, I never see him/her come out of the shell. If I place defrosted shrimp on a stick in the opening of the shell, though, two little tentacles come out and grab it. I don't think this thing has grown at all since I got it - is that possible?

Anyway, whatever I'm doing I'll keep on doing because he / she seems to be healthy so I can only hope it's happy, too. Sure would like to catch a glimpse of this critter sometime before it expires.... perhaps it will be my Christmas miracle!

[DWhatley]

This is somewhat typical of some experiences with O. mercatoris AND one little nocturnal Indonesian (Espy) I got from Live Aquaria. However, I think you have seen less of this one than any other reporting except for one that Carol had, thought had died, added another octo and then saw it several months later.

[BIGMAINELOBSTER]

are most octopi this shy or is it only because you only check during the day mainly? I am a student and am awake until 6am all the time so if I got an oto would I be more likely to see it? do you think the shyness occurs because of the size of this octo? I am interested in one a little bit larger, and if that would be adventageous I would be more interested in that aswell.

also does price of octos generally deal with size or is that not a main factor, also how do I know how large an octo will get if I get it as a hatchling

[DWhatley]

BML, Welcome to the world of "box of chocolates" marine life. As Sue well knows, when we get octopuses they are from the wild, not from aquaculture, 99.9% of the time. Sue was close enough and willing to take a long drive (over 6 hours round trip) to acquire a couple of young hatchlings from a student whos lab animal produced young but it is very, very infrequent that this opportunity exists. The octopus in this thread was purchased through a retailer and was captured by nationals outside the US then imported. A third way we acquire them is through direct collection of animals in the FL Keys. Both imported and local animals show up in various pet shops. Typically, the "Indonesian" octopuses from Live Aquaria are animals in the Abdopus complex (often aculeatus) or in the Macropus complex (a nocturnal group). Their Caribbean offerings have been inconsistent and sometimes not even Caribbean (as I understand it, these come through a wholesaler and LA does not hand select them). Adding to the already complicated acquisition, are California laws that do not allow the sale of O. bimaculoides or O. bimaculatus (collectively referred to as bimacs) so these, though relatively easy to identify, are not common to be able to keep.

Identifying an octopus species is a challenge (often even for those who are well familiar with multiple species) because of their range of sizes and color patterns. None of the suppliers have much of a clue to the species, sex or age of an animal they have in stock. Occasionally a small collector will have caught one either in their aquacultured live rock, while out collecting other animals or will be offered one from a crab or lobster fisherman. The animals that come from out of the country are typically caught in the same areas and are typically one of two species but even that is hit or miss and will not be something the supplier has accurately learned to identify. A few of the collectors have learned a little about visual traits and make a good guess on species (and some species are easier to identify).

Age is not something you can specify and usually won't have much of a clue when you order. This is always a concern since an octopuses life span (for the kind we keep at home) is only 12 -18 months. Size is somewhat helpful but not definitive since species size varies from dwarf to medium and individuals vary considerably within species. Other than animals born in a tank, hatchlings are not available. On occasion very young animals are found but the more common case is and animal from 5 months to 12 months old. Often females will brood after only a month in the tank. My conjecture is that they are the easiest to catch since they go through a period of heavy eating (as well as looking for a mate) just before they lay their eggs. Females with eggs usually live until the eggs hatch and die almost immediately at hatching. While brooding the female rarely leaves the eggs and does not often eat. There have been a few females to live a bit longer but this is the exception (we do know of one and only one species that will lay multiple clutches. Hopefully this little animal will be captive bred for the pet trade in the coming years but it is not currently an option).

Sooo, we try to size our tanks to accommodate the most typical animals (55+ sump or larger) and expect the chocolate to be good but not know exactly what it will be like.