Can I Buy this Octo?

**SueAndHerZoo** · May 22, '12, 1:11pm

Please?

I was online placing an order of fish from NY Aquatics and, as usual, I scanned his "Cephalopod" section and he has a baby octo for sale, described only as "Bali". I'm going to try to post the photo that he has on his site so hopefully it will attach to this post.

As you know I raised some BiMac hatchlings for several months and would LOVE to try again. But since you know a lot more about the different types available, perhaps you can offer your insight as to whether or not this would be a wise purchase or not? Hopefully it's not a blue-ring, but if I could find out more specifically what type it is I will better know which tank to put him in should I purchase him.

Thanks in advance.

**DWhatley** · May 22, '12, 4:24pm

I have no clue what species, but definitely looks young (vs adult dwarf). I would not put much faith in even a location from this supplier and the term Bali

Going down the list of normal possibilities:
IMO the arms are not proportionate for blue ring (too long and thin).

It almost looks a lot like O. briareus but I think not because of the color (they can show this color but IME they stay white and only color up when afraid and then only momentarily) but primarily, O. briareus show distinct bright blue around the eyes at this size.

The little noturnal macropus that is found in Indonesia can look very O. briareus like in some colorations but I have never seen one this small to know what the very young ones look like. If it is indonesian (ie Bali) I think this is where I would put my nickle (but no more of a bet than that). I really liked keeping this species. I have kept two, both were interactive but they are very nocturnal.

The roundish mantle could suggest O. vulgaris (found virtually everywhere) but, again I question the arm length as this is initially a pelagic species and the arms take awhile to catch up.

I would say it is NOT an Abdopus (aculeatus or one of the other similar in this group) because of the thickness of the mantle.

So, you have my, I have no clue observations. Personally, I think it is adorable and would go for it but I have a variety of tanks and can house most anything that normally shows up

**SueAndHerZoo** · May 22, '12, 5:12pm

Order placed.

I looked into actually driving there to pick up the livestock but between the gas and it being a holiday weekend (traffic) I'm better off having the package shipped. I opted to go the extra expense and have it shipped on Friday for a Saturday delivery so that I can be there to receive the package and immediately start acclimating (as opposed to receiving it on a weekday where they have to remain in the box till I get home from the office).

I'll post pix Saturday when he/she arrives.

Here we go again!

Sue

**Neogonodactylus** · May 22, '12, 5:14pm

Looks like a young pygmy something along the lines of O. bocki.

ROy

**iAlex** · May 22, '12, 11:45pm

I've talked to him before, that is a stock photo, not a WYSIWYG.

**DWhatley** · May 22, '12, 11:57pm

Welcome to the wonderful world of guess the octo

**SueAndHerZoo** · May 23, '12, 12:49am

Originally Posted by DWhatley

Welcome to the wonderful world of guess the octo

Hoping we have several contestants participating in the game show -- I'm gonna need all the help I can get.
Sue

**DWhatley** · May 23, '12, 1:05am

Almost anyone who orders on-line is an automatic participant

To be fair, I sometimes have an advantage because my primary supplier can be pummeled about the head and shoulders until I receive a photo (and, of course I know where it originated) BUT, Maya was supposed to be O. maya (was O. hummelincki), Puddles was expected to be A.aculeatus (or at least Abdopus) and Ziggy was supposed to be Mexican (she was Indonesian). It took several months to decide LittleBit was O. vulgaris and not O. joubini and I HAD advance photos.

**SueAndHerZoo** · May 23, '12, 9:21am

I could really care less what "kind" it is except that knowing the type will help me obtain the info and knowledge to best care for him/her. Just do me a favor, please, and let me know (once I can get pictures) if it's a blue-ring or some other creature that can potentially kill me. There are a few things in my life I'd be willing to die for, but this hobby isn't one of them.

**iAlex** · May 23, '12, 5:28pm

I highly doubt it is a BR, what makes you think it will be?

**SueAndHerZoo** · May 23, '12, 5:58pm

Originally Posted by iAlex

I highly doubt it is a BR, what makes you think it will be?

Nothing except for paranoia, fear of death, and a tendency to be caught by Murphy's Law too often.
Sue

**DWhatley** · May 23, '12, 6:02pm

During my time on TONMO, we have only had two people post about accidentally getting blue rings. One was Colin (former staff and actually before my time) and he had ordered directly from the wholesaler (all died during shipment) and the other is a suspect invalid post of a purchase from an LFS. I also know of an unposted incident where an LFS in FL received a dozen or so that MOTE euthenized. Your chances are pretty good at not receiving one but, as Roy points out, we know so little about octo venom that it is wise not to temp a problem. Don't look at my journals though, as I am not so cautious. I do know, usually, which species I am dealing with, don't keep exotics and keep my fingers - mostly - away from the beak

. I have been nipped by dieing, senescent animals - never with venom - that did not want to leave my hand and be returned to the substrate. The octo bites thread is a good place to spend a little reading time.

**SueAndHerZoo** · May 26, '12, 9:39pm

My baby octo arrived today..... any guesses what I got?
Sue

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**DWhatley** · May 27, '12, 8:32pm

How big is it? (mantle size of grape,golf ball, egg, ...) and roughly how long are the arms (2,3,4,... times the mantle). It does look a lot like the original photo but that one's mantle appears smaller than a dime.

**SueAndHerZoo** · May 27, '12, 9:00pm

I should have put something in the photos to give an idea of size... sorry. Mantle is a small grape. Tentacles are maybe twice the length of the mantle?

Really hard to say - I didn't see much of him because i acclimated him with a piece of live rock so he could hide and feel safe and that's exactly what he did. And now that he's free in the tank, I haven't seen him since I put him in there. When he was relaxed his tentacles were probably twice as long as his mantle but when he was traveling across the container the tentacles got much longer and thinner. Hopefully he'll make an appearance in the next day or two and I can get a better look (and photos) of him.

Sue

**DWhatley** · May 27, '12, 10:48pm

I've no suggestion and never seeing O. bocki but knowing O. bocki looks something like an O. mercatoris, Roy's suggestion from the original picture seems like the best offering so far. I went to my journal for Espy and see a similarity in the arm stripes and basic shape but not the eyes or red coloration (I don't think Espy ever showed red). Here is one of Roy's photos of O. bocki . The color the eyes seem to be similar but not sure about those arm stripes (which is why I looked at Espy's pictuers). Octos can show so many color and pattern differences, it is hard to say if a particular species can/does show arm stripes and I have seen them on most I have kept but definitely not all the time. Here is a image I found that claims to be (in situ photo) O. bocki WITH arm stripes.

I definitely think it is nocturnal. You said you had hoped keeping saltwater tanks would increase your patience, enjoying a nocturnal will serve this purpose

**SueAndHerZoo** · May 27, '12, 11:23pm

I was just looking through the photos on my smart phone and saw that I had taken a short video of the octo while he was still in the acclimation container. I'm going to try to attach it here.

And you're right, D.... I will learn patience and the ability to function on very little sleep (I've always been a night owl anyway). Last night I got up several times to peek in the tank with a flashlight but really am trying to resist because I don't want to spook him while he's so new to this place. Would you come out of hiding if you saw a big scary person with a bright LED in your face each time you came out of your rock? I wouldn't!

click picture to view video

**DWhatley** · May 28, '12, 12:20am

First expenditure you need to make is a red flashlight, better would be a red light to place over the tank. With all my nocturnals, I have used a red light on the tank that remained on 24/7. In a dark room, you don't need a great deal of brightness to see in the tank. For a temporary solution (ie ugly but functional) a simple work light (usually found in an automotive department, is silver, cone shaped and often comes with a pinch clip for hanging) and a red flourescent (Wal-Mart and Home Depot have them) screw-in bulb is easy to set up for anything but a tank with an opaque top. Almost of my nocturnals have acclimated to this kind of lighting and became accustomed to me watching them (Espy was the only exception to adapting to my presence, he hunted under the lighting but never acclimated to me).

**SueAndHerZoo** · May 28, '12, 12:28am

Originally Posted by DWhatley

First expenditure you need to make is a red flashlight, better would be a red light to place over the tank. With all my nocturnals, I have used a red light on the tank that remained on 24/7. In a dark room, you don't need a great deal of brightness to see in the tank. For a temporary solution (ie ugly but functional) a simple work light (usually found in an automotive department, is silver, cone shaped and often comes with a pinch clip for hanging) and a red flourescent (Wal-Mart and Home Depot have them) screw-in bulb is easy to set up for anything but a tank with an opaque top. Almost of my nocturnals have acclimated to this kind of lighting and became accustomed to me watching them (Espy was the only exception to adapting to my presence, he hunted under the lighting but never acclimated to me).

LOL Already have a red flashlight posted at every tank in my house, but for some reason last night I was using the bright white LED one to try and find the poor little guy. Tonight I will use one of the red flashlights. I just really want to find the spot that he has chosen so that I'll know where to look and was using all the light I could get in the hopes of seeing a tentacle move.

I love the idea of using nothing but a red light as a tank light but not sure if I can find one to fit this tank... I've got him in a 14 gallon biocube for now. As he gets larger (I HOPE he gets larger!) I will move him to a 34 gallon, and then if we determine that he's going to be a big guy, I will set up my empty 90 gallon cylindrical tank that I've never set up yet. I wonder if they make red bulbs for the Bio cube.... think I'll go search.
Sue

**DWhatley** · May 28, '12, 12:57am

Be sure to post any red lights you find that fit any standard tanks, so far we have not found any. Red lighting is not hard to come by or create (I have used red, high temp velum inside an outdoor light and others have covered the top in velum so that the white light is red in the tank). Esthetic red lighting is another story.

I don't believe this one will grow much but the 34 is likely to be the best option even now. One of the antecdotal things we have observed but not quantified is a heavier loss of little ones just after water changes and a better survival success in larger tanks. So the volume of the 34 would give a better buffer for water change trama. The 14 is a little goosey but I have been successful raising mercs in one after they were 5 months old (until that time, however, they were born and housed in a 45).