LittleBit - O. vulgaris?

**ieatfalalfel** · Aug 18, '11, 1:39am

i never get to see red... im partially color blind. sigh

**DWhatley** · Aug 18, '11, 1:51am

I would call that orange but Monty could turn that color when he was very small. As he got older I did not see it but in tiny patches. Thinking about it makes me want to put a tree sponge that color in the tank though just to see if Little Bit will match it. She will match the sand when not on her rocks but in the rocks she uses a wide variety of colors. Every time I try to take a find the octo photo of some of her best background matching she sees me and makes herself visible before I can even grab the camera. She does not stay her best red when I get out the camera either and so far the best I have been able to photograph is the bottom right picture in the collage on post #28.

**DWhatley** · Aug 18, '11, 1:53am

i never get to see red... im partially color blind. sigh

My youngest son is always "guessing" the wrong colors in the octopuses too for the same reason.

**ieatfalalfel** · Aug 18, '11, 2:00am

sorry about that. im probably going to have a post like, "look at my purple octopus" and you guys are going to tell me its brown.

**iAlex** · Aug 18, '11, 2:07am

We'll break it to you gently.

**DWhatley** · Aug 18, '11, 2:07am

Oddly, some browns look very purple or dark blue under actinic lighting. I had a very plain brown starfish that would become very attractive when under actinic lighting. Mandarin dragonettes are the same way. If you see one in natural lighting, especially in the evening they are a very dull brown but are brightly colored under aquarium lights.

**ieatfalalfel** · Aug 18, '11, 5:35am

i was just throwing out random colors... but thats cool. we have a dress code at school where i can wear purple but not blue and i dont see red. so take red out of purple and you have blue. i think everyone is breaking dress code. with my FW tank, i asked for a blue tetra and aparently they were all purple, but give us an update on little bit

**DWhatley** · Aug 19, '11, 12:38am

Little Bit comes to the front of the tank more and more when we pass by. She is nearly aways visible (but wearing camo) but now seems to attempt to get our attention. I have been putting my face up to the glass and she will come over and explore the glass in front of my nose. I got an order of small sand crabs to see if they would interest Espy (no luck) and Little Bit was happy to take one from my fingers but insisted on holding on to my hand for maybe as long as 5 minutes. I noticed sucker shed and think Neal's idea that our fingers aid releasing the pads has merit.

**iAlex** · Aug 19, '11, 12:56am

When do we get to meet Neal? lol

**DWhatley** · Aug 19, '11, 1:26am

At TONMOCON II (bottom photo) At TONMOCON IV

He has an account but rarely signs in.

**iAlex** · Aug 19, '11, 2:02am

IIRC, didn't you sign into once and start posting? :P

**DWhatley** · Aug 19, '11, 2:20am

I created the account because of an issue with pictures. It turned out that the pictures were too large for the new photo uploader limits but initially I thought I had hit a total upload limit.

Oh, and I only understand a VERY limited amount of text talk so I have no idea what IIRC means

**iAlex** · Aug 19, '11, 3:15am

If I recall correctly.

**DWhatley** · Oct 14, '11, 3:54am

I am way over due for posting in LittleBit's journal! She continues to be a special animal (of course Neal says I say that about everyone I keep

). She is less domesticated than most that interact and only wants to play for a few minutes at a time but her activity is more like a wild animal with curiosity about humans than a tank restricted one. It is hard to explain but, to me, she is the quintessential representation of an octopus.

As she has matured, she has started objecting to tank cleaning. Normally she will surprise me and sneak up and briefly grab my hand then go to her den. I piece the video to show what happened when I left the siphon in her tank unattended for a few seconds

Be sure to watch the very end! I was excited that I got that on video. I saw Octane (hummelincki) do that but in red several years ago and imagine it would be really freaky to see underwater.

Neal and I are both surprised at how strong she is. I let her pull on the back of my hand without keeping the skin tight and she left two arms of sucker marks! With all the handling I have done with these animals, this is the first time I have received a hickey :shocked:

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I still think she is joubini but she is getting larger than she should and often takes on the vulgaris look (especially the all white with brown eyes). At 6 months + there is no way she IS vulgaris but her size makes me question my identification.

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I keep thinking about moving her to a larger tank (I have the tube tank unoccupied) but am worried a surrounding change might trigger brooding. She is not cramped in her current tank but if she grows much larger she will be.

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**sedna** · Oct 14, '11, 8:25am

D, unless there is something else out there in the Caribbean, you have a joubini. I was surprised at how large both of the ones I had were. Really sort of too big to be a dwarf, but no where near the size of a briareus or vulgaris full grown. Yet another reason why they are the perfect octo for the home! Now, if you can just work your "D" magic when she broods! OB is certain all we need to do is get spawning crabs into the mix for food and we'd have better luck getting these small egged babies to live...

**DWhatley** · Oct 14, '11, 11:34am

Now, if you can just work your "D" magic when she broods!

Not with Little Bit (and my last attempt failed miserably with the large egg briareus). I was lucky to get her when she was tiny (6 months now) so she has never mated. I read a study somewhere that found removing eggs in less than 24 hours (exact time was a bit of a guess but ASAP and no longer than a day if I remember right, sadly I failed to record where I read it) of laying them may stop the brooding behavior (but not extend the lifespan a lot). I definitely plan to do this.

I have looked for crab spawn a couple of times (both frozen and live) but have not found a source (lots of references to using live for raising octos) and the fiddler eggs never seem to hatch. Usually the female dies before releasing the eggs and I now feed the ones showing eggs first to give the octos the benefit. I did have one adult female to survive that I put in with Cassy but never saw anything that looked like little crabs hatchlings. Next time I have a potential WC female, I will see if Paul has egg bearing crabs and try removing the eggs with the thought of feeding the unhatched.

**DWhatley** · Oct 16, '11, 9:28pm

Two things I keep forgetting to post that I want to record on her journal.

1) I have never seen the ruffle like papilli on anything but photos of a GPO. The look I am trying to describe is flattened skin in rounded (not pointed and wider than the typical spikes) scallops along the body. Little Bit showed this look last week but it was so fast that I did not have time for the camera.

2) My son reported that she bit him when he was feeding her while we were in DC. No broken skin or even marks but he swears he felt a sharp prick. I am inclined to think he felt her very strong suckers trying to leave a hickey that felt sharp as the blood rushed to the area. I have felt the sharp prick twice with senescent animals without a mark but Little Bit is quite healthy and I would expect broken skin if she was actually tyring to bite him.

**DWhatley** · Oct 20, '11, 5:19pm

OK so at least I think they have noticed each other and they are both sexually mature.

At dinner and for several hours afterwards (tank lights on) we have noticed both animals active on the glass (new development). We have tried to determine if they can see each other (the tanks are at right angles with an interfering stairwell) and believe they can if positioned in some areas. The behavior is identicle to what we observed with Cassy and Tatanka at a similar age.

That being said, it may be that they see US playing with the other octopus and have reached the interaction level that wants more human attention (this could have been the case with Cassy and Tatanka as well). They are different species and from different oceans and different temperature zones but I don't know if visual cues would make this obvious. There is no sign (color flashing or aggitation) that would infer aggressive behavior. I am not sure if we need to be in the room for this mutual dance to take place. We could never determine this with Cassy and Tank either even though I would try to sneak in and observe. We would see this after lights off with the O.briareus pair as well as early evening but they were crepuscular animals where Diego is diurnal and Little Bit appears to be more diurnal or crepuscular than the supposed nocturnal behavior of joubini (I believe the nocturnal label applies to O. mercatoris and not joubini from my observations).

**DWhatley** · Oct 27, '11, 3:51am

Maybe Little Bit is a miniture vulgaris

because she is getting too big for the 37 gallon tank. Tonight we moved her to the tube tank. We had decided to move her immediately after she laid eggs in hopes that she would not become broody but when she was spread eagle on the back wall tonight she took up more than half the length of the tank.

Initially she went into the rocks but as soon as the lights were turned off she investigated both the red lit and dark sides of the tank and has chosen to sit in the open on the red lit side. Her breathing has been normal the whole time and she has not shown the stressed white coloration even during the transfer. The tank parameters are similar with a slighly higher salinity and PH in the new tank but I decided the stress of any acclimation would be more than a direct transfer based on prior moves of other animals. She is not normally out at night but I she is spread out at the base of the LR and not clinging curled to the wall and seems comfortable.

In addition to the shrinking tank, I am expecting a new octo in the morning. I have no idea what it is (potentially a mercatoris) but it was a hitch hicker in some of Ken's live rock and is on its way. The new one could have gone in one of three tanks depending on its species but we decided to go ahead with the move tonight. I just hope this was not a mistake and causes Little Bit to brood early.