Id request

[avi]

Hey, i'm avi from israel and i've found this fossil near afek (North israel)




Can you tell what is it?
Many thanks
avi

[OB]

first and foremost! It bears some resemblance to Procheloniceras, but I'm sure Architeuthoceras and Hajar should be chiming in, any minute now!

I have further taken the liberty of moving this to "fossils and history".

[Hajar]

well I had never heard of Procheloniceras before (and don't know much about ammonites), but what strikes me first in the photo are the tubercles and the straight ribs, something like the Late Cretaceous Texanites?

[Hajar]

There are some Texanites images here.

[avi]

thanks!
i took another picture:

[OB]

I agree on interpreting the tubercules as such, and am trying to make sure I understand the geology sufficiently to make a Texas/Israel linkup via the Tethys overflow. I know Texanites is found as far East as the South of France, but is has four or five rows of tubercules, rather than just two (three?), so, close, yet no cigar. Will keep at it, interesting query to answer

[Hajar]

Others will know more, but I looked at the Texanites in the "Atlas of Invertebrate Macrofossils" edited by John Murray, where it says, "Ornamented with strong straight ribs with 3 or more tubercles"; "U Cretaceous (Santonian-L.Campanian). Worldwide."
Their illustrated example is from Transkei, Africa.

Your rock is an external mold Avi. I think I can see three tubercles per rib on the inner whorl. Do you have any pieces of the actual ammonite?

[Hajar]

I came across this.

[avi]

Nope, thats the only piece i've founded

[Architeuthoceras]

Boy I sure missed seeing this thread yesterday, talk about embarrassed

It looks like Protexanites bourgeoisi, except for that mid lateral node, an ammonite quite common worldwide from the Late Coniacian (Late Cretaceous). The mid lateral node probably puts it in Reginaites or Bevahites. Texanites would have five nodes throughout ontogeny, some of these others develop and lose nodes depending on diameter, these are very hard to ID because of this but it is definitely a Texanitid (probably Santonian).

[Hajar]

Thanks Kevin, a number of new names for me there. Perhaps "Texanitid" is close enough given that we only have a partial external mold to go by and don't confidently know how many nodes there were per rib (since we only glimpse them clearly in the external mold of the inner whorls).

Something that might be fun to try Avi would be to make a latex cast so that you can see what the actual fossil would have looked like.

[Architeuthoceras]

If there was a mold of the venter it would be a lot easier to ID. The flatness of the side makes me think of Texanites, but at that diameter (compared to the hand) it would surely have at least 4 nodes on the preserved portion, the only one missing would be the outer ventro-lateral node.

Reading the treatise just now, Anatexanites develops a 4th (lateral) node on later whorls, then it says it is a probable macroconch of Protexanites, so now dimorphism rears it's ugly head.

[avi]

More of the same
i've found one more fossil today at the same place
But much more small.
The inhaler is for the proportion

[avi]

The first picture shows how i found it.
then i broke it by force, and separate the fossil into 2 chunks:

[Hajar]

Well done Avi, there should be more good specimens to find. Is that a clear enough view of the tubercles Kevin to make an ID?

[Architeuthoceras]

I think I'll stick with the tentative ID of Protexanites.

[avi]

Thank you very much pepole for this discussion
you help me alot.

[palentologistDH]

Hello Avi
The fossils you have found is an ammonite. As the first one is only an imprint I can't tell you what species of ammonite it is, however I can tell you the age. Because you can see two layers of spikes in it I can tell you it was Jurassic around 160-180 million years old. These spikes would have been used to tell predictors it was dangerous, it would use these spikes when attacked by shooting them out. The second one is not an imprint but is in bad condition, it is a Liparoceras ammonite, it also has spikes and most are 185 million years old Jurassic.

Daniel