Aculeatus

[bluespotocto]

So I am pretty sure that my bimacs life is coming to a end. So i have decided to try a new species. I want to try out an Aculeatus. Mainly because I want to have an octo and coral in the tank together. I have a few questions about them. Will i need a heater for the tank and what temp of water do they like?(i live in santa barbara california) How do you know if the coral stings or not? How big will these guys grow? I have read that they are smaller then a bimac is that true? Also i have read that if you keep the octo well fed you can keep fish in there is that true? This will be my second octo so any other tips will help. One last question are they diurnal of nocturnal?

Thanks

[DWhatley]

Rule of thumb is NO fish. Keepers have experimented (purposefully and because they have not been able to remove fish) with mixed success. Size of fish vs octo and aggressiveness are important factors. I keep all my octos with inverts only and am unlikely to change but I have a serious case of MTS (likely terminal ) and use other tanks for other critters I want to keep.

Yes, the adopus complex group (most ided as aculeatus but there are several in the grouping that show up and one fairly common one is smaller than the aculeatus) are the smallest non-dwarf that we commonly see from Indonesia (often marked bali octopus).

Soft corals are a bit hit and miss and I would recommend attaching any polyps you try to a removable piece of LR. It becomes obvious rather quickly if it stings as the octo will react immediately. In general, short tenticled polyps are less of a concern than longer ones and avoiding anemones is recommended altogether. Mushrooms seem to be fine, leathers are no problem. OhToo did try madly to remove a mushroom when he started into senesence. I keep some brown and white polyps commonly called sun polyps (not the hard coral nocturnals that go by a similar name) in two of my octo tanks and they have done well, do not over populate a tank and have not disturbed the octopuses (they have climbed all over them without reaction). Most gorgonian are fine but need to be placed where the octo will not crawl on them and macro algaes, of course are another option.

I keep the Caribbean's beteen 75 and 78 in the summer and 72 and 75 in the winter but don't know if the winter temp is too cold for an Indonesian species.

[bluespotocto]

With that being said where is a good place to get one of these aculeatus (bali octopus)? Also are these guys nocturnal or diurnal?

[bluespotocto]

Ok so I think I found the octo at Live aquaria. It says its from indo-pacific. So I think its the right kind.

Now for the coral i am planing just to get some good beginner simple corals that dont sting a course. I will probaly got to my LF to get the coral. If any one can just list a couple good easy corals that would work that would be nice. Also some stuff about the coral that would help it grow strong and fast.

thanks

[DWhatley]

I did a quick search for the sun polyps (NOT Tubastrea) that I mentioned but neither place I webmaster have them in stock and the only other reference I could find showed them sold out. These are slow growing (as will be most of the softies that are octo safe) but make a very nice display and are very hardy. They look a lot like the common brown polyps that will populate (read that take over) very quickly but are NOT octo safe. Here is a link to a posted picture of Octane crawling around on them. In the bottom left photo, the large ones in front are at least 6 years old (acquired from a friend) and are even larger and more attactive now. The smaller polyps in the same photo are common brown's and had to be removed. The small group in the bottom right shot were newly added at the time of the photo.

Leather coral works nicely and do not require huge quantities of light. There are several sizes and colors (muted though, not bright). Tree sponges will add color as well as some of the brightly colored serpents (avoid the greens, eventually they beome aggressive and Mr. Green Jeans - shown in the photo - had to be relocated to his own tank a year later) and feather stars (albeit hard to come by). My favorite critter for octo tanks is not a coral though but I always recommend thorny stars for their color, daytime activity and clean up functions (you can just make out the orange thorny in the upper right hand photo).

The old adage, "nothing good happend quickly in a saltwater aquarium" applies to things that grow fast as well

[bluespotocto]

So pretty much dark sponge and leather corals should be good? Do i still have to worry about those guys stinging? How hard are those horny stars to find? I looked at 3 places and neither of them have them. Are there other kinds that will also work with the octo and will still clean the tank

[DWhatley]

I don't know about the propagation rights of the these guys

How hard are those horny stars to find

but the thorny seastar is native to Florida and should be available in a well stocked saltwater fish store. If you can't find them locally, Island Marine Life has some in stock. Mention my name and tell Lynn you want a really bright one if you order (it won't get you a discount but will get me brownie points).

In spite of what you find on the net about "Every Coral" having a sting, I am not sure this applies to most leathers or sponges. If they have any kind of stinging cells at all, they are not human or octo detectable.

[bluespotocto]

Will do, but your link isnt working. Also will coral attach to fake rock? I have 2 pieces of fake rock in there. I am planing to get a lot more LF but haven't had the chance if it wont then I will just take it out. Well i guess i never acutely realized does the coral go in the sand or does it attach to the rock? And also do you have to feed the coral? Sorry so many questions new to the coral and octo together. And do you have to feed the coral? Sorry new to the whole octo and coral together thing. does any one know how live aquaria collects there fish.

[Shkuey]

I got a couple of these serpent stars and my aculeatus ignores them as if they didn't exist. (Grain of salt: only been together 1 month.)

You can feed coral phytoplankton I believe? I'm not very experienced there either.

[bluespotocto]

Still wondering about the stuff below, but are these guys nocturnal of diurnal???????!!!????!!!!??? Also will pretty much any starfish work for helping with cleaning the tank?

Will do, but your link isnt working. Also will coral attach to fake rock? I have 2 pieces of fake rock in there. I am planing to get a lot more LF but haven't had the chance if it wont then I will just take it out. Well i guess i never acutely realized does the coral go in the sand or does it attach to the rock? And also do you have to feed the coral? Sorry so many questions new to the coral and octo together. And do you have to feed the coral? Sorry new to the whole octo and coral together thing. does any one know how live aquaria collects there fish.

[bluespotocto]

I would still like questions to be answered,please!!!!

[DWhatley]

I wrote a paragraph or two just at the time Tony made updates to the system and lost the entry and forgot to return.

Aculeatus is diurnal and small egged.

Link should be fixed for Island Marine Life. Lynn has a variety of serpents, including the harlequin (Ken - SealifeInc - won't mind me suggesting you shop with Lynn as he is trying to work full time with reef restoration projects and Lynn shares his facility). Avoid sea stars that are not either brittle or serpent or thorny and avoid green serpents. The Florida common star is not harmful to an octo (or visa versa) but is not a meat eater and will eventually starve with the lower lighting in an octopus tank. Even reef tanks are problematic for them and need to be estabished a long time before a common star will be able to find enough food to survive). Other starfish have starvation or aggression issues so keeping to the serpents and brittles is recommended.

If you are lucky, any polyps or leather you buy will be mounted on a small piece of some kind of substrate. If you are shopping locally, look for softies that are attached rather than loose. You will want to wedge the attached substrate into your existing rock so that the coral has water flowing around it (this helps for feeding) but not where you octo will maul it everytime it moves around. Generally speaking about 3/4 up the LR and toward an edge works well. Loose polyp mounting is better addressed by a reef forum and not suggested for your first softies but if you go that route reefcentral is a large community that is likely to have several methods for you to consider. Unless you are particularly graceful with super glue, I would avoid that method of attachment.

Depending upon the characteristics of your fake rock (is it porus, is it smooth, are there lots of grooves) it may or may not be an acceptable surface for corals. The surface and porocity matters less if you are using it as a base to support pre-mounted, non-encrusting corals like leathers. If you get a spreading encrusting coral the surface will make a difference. I guess the frustrating answer is, as usual, "it depends".

Yes, you have to feed the corals but there are different takes on this as well. Many corals feed on plankton that is hosted internally and needs light to grow but even these corals usually need meaty food. We feed our tanks 6 days a week with one day fasting. Many other people only feed once or twice a week. All of our tanks get a few squirts of frozen Cyclop-eeze and frozen mysis on feeding days (along with a small amount of liquid vitamins). You might cruise the different on-line stores, see what interests you and then look up the individual care criteria. Once you have a list and are armed with care knowledge, THEN go to your local pet store and see if they have any on your list. I would also make a list of Do No Buy's so that if you find something interesting you will know to avoid it. Additionally, most good aquarium stores have a well worn book with coral descriptions and care that you can reference while you shop.

[cuttlegirl]

Is there an aquarium club in your area? They might be able to answer some of your coral questions. Also, they sometimes trade corals, so you might be able to get your coral from the club.

[Octohk]

Check the post "Octo, Eel, Cuddle, Shark" I have this species and I posted some vids. You can see the size.

[bluespotocto]

So i think I almost have every thing I need to know except what kind of starfish can I get and not have to feed or do u have to feed them? Also what's the best kind so the octo won't eat it? And alos i sent live aquaria an email about the aculeatus they say they have. they said the octopus you will get is the one in the picture for the display?! So i guess can some one go there and just make sure that it is an aculeatus in the pic? And if it is not the species i want do you they will send it back?

Thanks for all the replies

[bluespotocto]

Ok so i think i am going to get 2 serpent starfish for the tank? I have read and it says they will eat left over food. Even if they do do that do you still have to feed them? Also i didnt get a clear answer on if you have to feed coral. So do you have to feed coral, and what do you feed them? I also didnt get a answer on how big do they get at full size?

thanks

[Nancy]

I'd recommend the soft corals called mushrooms. (dwhatley has some of these, too). Get the red ones and they are a beautiful addition to the tank. You can feed them phytoplankton and they'll also eat fish flakes and other food.

Nancy

[DWhatley]

Yes, you have to feed corals. It is how often and what that varies from aquarist to aquarist. I feed mine Cyclop-eeze and mysis shrimp and add a vitamin supplement.

The serpents will eat left overs and if you feed your corals something meaty, they will also eat what the corals don't so no additional food is necessary. I recommend adding a little extra coral food when there is no octo in residence.

From Norman's Cephalopods A World Guide Aculeatus has a body size of 6 cm (2 3/8") with an arm length of 30 cm (just under 1 foot).

Aquarium keeping is not a specific science and the rules are not hard and fast. Each tank requires observation and adjustments. I keep 8 marine tanks and each one is fed somewhat differently based upon how the critters fair.

[mucktopus]

I've never seen an aculeatus eat any echinoderm in the wild, so any star you pick should be safe from the octo.

[bluespotocto]

So I called my LF and they said they have the sun polyps. They didnt know if they were the tubastrea kind though. How do you tell the difference from the good kind and the bad kind? Also do you guys think $5 a pound is to much for LR?

thanks