What might I have seen in the market

**DWhatley** · Mar 15, '08, 1:21am

We went to our "international" market last weekend to see what they might have for Octane in the way of crustaceans. I didn't find much and what I did find was not fresh enough for human consumption (except the shrimp). I had to look at all the cephs, of course, and saw small "octopus" (large Merc size) in the fresh seafood case but where the mantle and arms come together was open rather than joined. Can anyone tell me if I was looking at a squid with octopus looking arms and mantle or are there octos who's mantle opening is at the arm join and fully half the body in circumference rather than slits on each side?

They also had some very large frozen "octopus" arms that were both thick and as long as my arm from the elbow to the finger tips. I am guessing these had to be vulgaris but wondered if squid arms are similar enough to be substituted? The suckers looked like octo suckers (tight to the arm) rather than the pictures I have seen of the larger squid who's suckers stick out like flowers on a stem.

**Jean** · Mar 16, '08, 4:23pm

the one surefire way I know to determine if a mystery ceph is a squid or an octopus is to get a close look at the suckers. If there are chitinous toothed sucker rings, it's a squid, if these are not present, it's an octopus....course Steve or Roy may have other ways to tell! Appendage number or structure isn't definitive, there are squid with no feeding tentacles (thus only eight arms) and octopus with vestigial feeding tentacles (thus ten appendages!) and so on!

J

**DWhatley** · Mar 17, '08, 12:33am

Thanks Jean,
I did try to look at the suckers and they looked like octo suckers but I have not seen many squid. I also realized that I have never really seen the underside of my octos mantle and it may actually look more like that than I think (feel a bit stupid here). I tried several times to look under Octane's mantle tonight and I think the knew I was acting differently ;>). He was not very obliging and I did not get a good look. Strange the things you DON'T notices when you are around something every day.

**monty** · Mar 17, '08, 12:39am

Originally Posted by dwhatley

Thanks Jean,
I did try to look at the suckers and they looked like octo suckers but I have not seen many squid. I also realized that I have never really seen the underside of my octos mantle and it may actually look more like that than I think (feel a bit stupid here). I tried several times to look under Octane's mantle tonight and I think the knew I was acting differently ;>). He was not very obliging and I did not get a good look. Strange the things you DON'T notices when you are around something every day.

You must not have spent as much time as I did looking at the pickled squids at Mote... The 3 foot long Dosidicus gigas had much scarier suckers (and beefier arms and tentacles) than the much larger Architeuthis but both showed the sucker morphology (rings and stalks) quite stunningly... (this is why I never managed to get over to the marine mammal section before they closed...)

**DWhatley** · Mar 17, '08, 1:16am

Monty,
The stalks on the big guys (as well as some of Kat's pictures) left a definite impression and I mentioned earlier that the suckers were not on stalks but closely attached like an octo sucker. What I did not look for was any kind of tooth inside the sucker. I would not have questioned them being octopus except for the size of the opening under the mantle (they were placed beak side up) that looked more like a bell attached from the inside rather than what I think mine would look like ;>).

**Jean** · Mar 17, '08, 4:37pm

here are some pics!

The first shows sucker rings from the third arms of Nototodarus gouldi on the left and N. sloanii on the right. Then there is an Architeuthis sucker ring and a Mesonychoteuthis hook (Thanks Steve for the loan of these) finally there is a slightly blurry (sorry) pic of P. cordiformis suckers!

J

**Jean** · Mar 17, '08, 4:42pm

Just for interest, here are pics of the hectocotylised arms (IV) of N. sloanii and a mated female you can see the stored spermatophores embedded around the buccal mass (mouth!) also if you look closely you can see sucker rings in the suckers (some are lost, they detach very easily once the animal has been frozen!)

J