Giant Squid footage on History Channel

[monty]

Thanks for the feedback, Monty! I do have a few programs that will be able to record the streamed footage, but I've got to mess with the settings in order for the recording to play back smoothly. Once I've got a smooth recording, I'll be sure to post a link to it!

Cool! Thanks!

[monty]

Anyone interested in ordering a copy of the show can do it here:

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/i...html?id=108310

[SeaWolves]

Dear Tonmo and All It's Members,

Last night History Channel premiered a show called: MonsterQuest: The Humboldt Squid Found. One year ago, I worked with the production company to help make this show.

My exposure to this documentary was when I viewed the debut broadcast with the rest of the world on Wednesday, November 14th 2007.

There are several errors in the documentary and since I was directly involved with the expedition as a research facilitator and explorer, I feel ethically obligated to present the facts for what they are and make corrections when errors are made.

I was not involved with the writing of this story, the editing, or the scientific, technical accuracy of this production. The only time I saw the footage of the “very large squid in question” was the day we shot it. I requested a copy of the footage several times to analyze it but was turned down.

I strongly believe that it was Architeuthis (not Dosidicus) but of course cannot confirm it due to the absence of ‘tell tale’ morphological structures like chitenous ring-teeth, wing (fin) shape, and size to mantle ratio and tentacle shape – length.

Below is a black and white of the show. What the documentary claims is titled as Myth. The Facts are presented clearly and a brief Explanation is given. The Explanation does not include my opinion. That is for another forum.

As always, my films, footage, still photographs, observations and diving methodology is available to the scientific and educational communities for the advancement of knowledge and support of on going research.

Myth 1
The squid was 54 feet long

Fact
I doubt the squid could be that big simply because the video footage analysis was not done correctly and subsequently over-estimated the size of the creature.

Explanation
1) The forensic video analyst erroneously identified a scrape on the animal’s skin at the head-mantle intersection was a reflection in the eye. Since the scrape would be a significant distance from the eye, the overall size calculation cannot be used, therefore it is simply not an accurate size assessment.
2) Based on personal experience in situ over a decade of seeing large squid, I strongly believe that the squid in the sequence is large, probably in excess of 25 feet, but considering the quality of the footage a precise size assessment cannot be made.

Myth 2
The “Camera Squid” I was holding was 8 feet long and 200 pounds

Fact
He was only 4.5 feet long and weighed an estimated 45-50 pounds

Explanation
I wasn’t a part of the writing or scientific, technical accuracy. I am 69 inched tall and with long bladed fins am approx 100 inches. If you use that as a scale when watching the documentary you can easily gage the size of the Camera squid.

Myth 3
The Trojan Squid “Psuedomorph” (or “Sue” for short) was incredibly successful.

Fact
It failed.

Explanation
The deployment of Sue was difficult and when performed, no squid approached it and no squid attacked it. If you watch the sequence, you will notice that the ‘jigged’ Humboldt squid that attacked it was actually caught on a traditional jig with a camera attached to it.

Myth 4
The expedition was performed in Cabo

Fact
It was performed solely in Loreto, Baja California Sur

Explanation
I wasn’t a part of the writing or scientific, technical accuracy.


Thank you for your time.

[Clem]

Scott,

Welcome to TONMO, and thank you for speaking out.

What led you to conclude that the now-infamous white spot was a scrape on the mystery squid's mantle? I see how the debrided integument would expose the reflective white flesh beneath, but it seemed as likely to me that the white spot was another object in the water, either a small squid or fish.

As first posts go, that was a doozy, sir. Hope you'll stay awhile.

Cheers,
Clem

[monty]

For what it's worth, despite my being a bit of a critic of the size estimate, I think the valuable work you, Dale, and crew did for the expedition came through in the show, and I very much enjoyed watching it. I think you should be proud of making it happen.

I certainly appreciate getting your and Dale's perspectives on it, and hope you can continue with this work. It's unfortunate that sensationalism seems to increasingly be the norm for science reporting, although it's understandably hard for people communicating science to the public to keep their attention enough to report the facts. It sounds like it's also very unfortunate in this case that the producers of the documentary chose to cut off involvement of you, and I'd imagine the other experts they interviewed for footage, from fact-checking the final version, but I also see it as sad that you and others end up disappointed.

I certainly want to thank you and Dale for sharing your experiences and adventures with us. I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone who's been discussing this on TONMO that we pick things apart because we enjoy understanding them, and that we do it out of respect, awe, and enthusiasm for better understanding and appreciation of these animals.

Cheers and thanks!

[erich orser]

Honestly, Scott, what Monty just said in it's entirety.

Thanks for your great work, and I don't think anyone around here has lost any respect for you or your team. When I saw a previous Monster Quest regarding Sasquatch I feared for you guys, but as always, your portions remain excellent.
I know the hand of producers when I see it, so I took the narration and the other content with a grain of salt and just enjoyed what you guys were able to accomplish.

Wondering if your really large squid might have been Moroteuthis instead of Archi? I haven't heard of them from the Sea of Cortez, but they're certainly found off of Southern California, so who knows?

[SeaWolves]

Here I am in my office this last Tuesday (13 Nov, 55 fsw off Santa Rosalia). This is the second biggest squid I've caught, a 6 ft + squid (1.1m ML) that allowed me to hold him for three seconds, then wrestled free, turned and bit my forearm and head drawing blood through my armor. Ivo will send me the sequence next week from NYNY. He says when the squid was on my head all you could see was my fins, the squid's fins and a giant ink cloud in the middle. (These creatures use ink to hide prey from others as well as for psuedomorphic decoys)

It is so nice having a photographer around to prove the 'fish story'. Ivo was "Pulled and Tagged" by five squid moments later pulling his fins, left arm and strobes. (As any good photographer would be, he was mostly concerned about his strobes)

I am refining a new-hand feeding technique in order to lure and hand catch them for a series of up coming experiments including more 'squidcam' work, tissue and blood sampling (without catch induced stresses) and tagging... and its working!

I Love My Job!

Thank you all for your support. The next time I film a 'Giant Squid' it will be reported my way. Just the facts, no opinions or masked motives and be made available to the scientific community for analysis. Reality is always better than "Hollywoodization".

Sad how some folks rush in to take credit for others work.

All the best to Tonmo and crew!

By the way, if a researcher from the Tonmo group can determine what species of 'Large Squid' my team and I filmed, I would love to hear it. I strongly believe it was Archy due to swim/approach pattern, but of course cannot prove anything. The manner in which it 'flowered' was different than I've observed D.g. move. Nonetheless, it was a big and beautiful animal.

Again, I thank you all.

[SeaWolves]

Kinda funny, "The White Spot" is sounding like "Grassy Knoll"...

The white mark is not an uncommon injury site to D.g. and in fact when I filmed the very big D.g. I dubbed 'Scar' he had a similar wound in the same area. This area is often 'tagged' by victims of cannibalization upon their cannibalistic / predatory squid. It is (as you know, the laceration / avulsion of the skin exposing the impressive muscular and fascia structures below, which are bright white often with a beautiful blue hue from oxygenated cyan blood cells) a chitinous ring teeth scape that occurs when the victim folds back to defend itself often striking around the leading edge of the mantle (of the cannibal). From what I've observed and filmed, the victim usually only gets one strike before it is then immobilized by rapid bites around the occipital folds. (the choice location for a quick kill by cannibals)

This of course isn't the case when a cannibal strikes the fins of a 'jigged' squid. The poor victim just gets torn to bits without a chance to defend itself. (which is why I hand catch them now)

I hope this information helps explain why I am convinced what the origin of the "white spot" within the footage sequence is.

All the best to you and again, my humble thanks for Tonmo's support.

[monty]

I'm not sure if I should say that I'm sorry to hear about your injuries, since you seem to be pleased with them. That's certainly a great picture of an impressive animal, thanks for sharing it with us!

[cuttlegirl]

What a fun job you have! Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

[corw314]

I missed this the other night. I hope they are planning to rerun at some point.

Great photo! Would love to see more.

And

[sorseress]

Scott! We're really glad to have your input. As you can well imagine, skepticism about the quoted size has been overwhelming ever since we first saw the trailers. It would be nice if shows like that would try to be a little more accurate, although any show with the title "Monster Quest" can be assumed to be more interested in ratings than truth. Still, there are going to be plenty of yo-yos who will go around talking about the real live 108 foot squid they saw on the History channel!

[Reconman]

Great to hear the truth from you, Scott. The next time you get footage of a big squid, please let us know, I'm sure all of us would be extremely excited!

[Reconman]

I've uploaded a monster quest segment from the first time seeing the big squid to the end of the episode on photobucket. I'm also currently uploading the video file to rapidshare for those who would like to download it to their HD's to further examine the footage. I'll edit this post once the footage is uploaded.

http://s119.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=BigSquid.flv

EDIT: Here's the rapidshare link http://rapidshare.com/files/70236728/Big_Squid.wmv.html

If any one knows of other upload sites that don't require you to wait for the download link, please let me know, thanks.

[Danno]

Good special. What a gorgeous looking beast even though it is really hard to make out. Was this enough umph to get funding to go back out and do it again? :)

[BradB]

I thought it was obvious they would have issues with scale of squids with the camera before seeing the end of this show. I cannot believe a team spending this much money didn't anticipate this problem. The obvious (but possibly expensive) solution would be to attach two cameras to the Trojan squid.

I think it is amazing that the first camera lowered for only a few hours saw a squid that almost any estimate puts at close to the largest verified squids. This is not a several month searching the depths for an elusive animal, we just dropped a camera, and it was right there. Imagine what could be found lowering large numbers of cameras capable of judging scale over several months in several different areas. Whatever this is, we likely will see more of it in our lifetimes.

I don't fault the history channel for false facts - anyone should be skeptical watching anything on TV, especially a series dedicated to cryptozology that offers convincing evidence on everything it investigates. I do think the "8 foot" squid being held by the diver clearly seen on camera was ridiculous and should not have been aired. Stay tuned to the follow-up of this episode: MosterQuest investigates sitings of a 15 foot tall scuba diver off the coast of California.

Still a cool episode, and I think we will live to see many exciting sea creatures in our lifetimes, including squid and octopus that dwarf anything we've seen.

[monty]

I thought it was obvious they would have issues with scale of squids with the camera before seeing the end of this show. I cannot believe a team spending this much money didn't anticipate this problem. The obvious (but possibly expensive) solution would be to attach two cameras to the Trojan squid.

I think it is amazing that the first camera lowered for only a few hours saw a squid that almost any estimate puts at close to the largest verified squids. This is not a several month searching the depths for an elusive animal, we just dropped a camera, and it was right there. Imagine what could be found lowering large numbers of cameras capable of judging scale over several months in several different areas. Whatever this is, we likely will see more of it in our lifetimes.

I don't fault the history channel for false facts - anyone should be skeptical watching anything on TV, especially a series dedicated to cryptozology that offers convincing evidence on everything it investigates. I do think the "8 foot" squid being held by the diver clearly seen on camera was ridiculous and should not have been aired. Stay tuned to the follow-up of this episode: MosterQuest investigates sitings of a 15 foot tall scuba diver off the coast of California.

Still a cool episode, and I think we will live to see many exciting sea creatures in our lifetimes, including squid and octopus that dwarf anything we've seen.

BradB. If you scroll back a bit, you'll see that Scott himself (SeaWolves) does address some of your issues, including the 8 foot concern.

It's still interesting that there's enough big squids down there that one showed up in a few minutes... as you point out, the chances of seeming a rare or unusual one in that short time are slim... whether it's an extra-large dosidicus or something else like architeuthis or moroteuthis, it's interesting that there seem to be larger animals that aren't caught much by the fishermen.

I'm still wondering if any of the giant-sized squids school, and cross-species schooling would be particularly unusual.

[Clem]

Hello BradB,



Points well taken, especially about how succesful this first-time effort was.

One thing that's tickled me is the fact that the camera squid wasn't preyed upon, by other Humboldts or the big fella. Did the bright light ward off predators? It might have, but Taningia actually attacked the light rig when it was filmed live. Or, did the attached light illuminate potential threats before they could attack, giving the camera squid time to spot them and take evasive action? It would be interesting to know if a squid that didn't have photophores could successfully adapt to suddenly having a spotlight.

Cheers,
Clem

[dusty59]

Dear Tonmo and All It's Members,

Last night History Channel premiered a show called: MonsterQuest... There are several errors in the documentary....

Hi Scott and Tonmo members! I Googled up info on said program & was lead to this thread- the video footage is great, but I was really sorry to learn of the- let us say- "mischaracterizations" by the producers. I do hold HC accountable for the factuality of its "documentaries."

As has been said, I appreciate your taking time to give the actualities what was seen (reality is such a cool & fascinating thing!) and look forward to seeing more.

steven rhodes

[monty]

Last night, I was walking around in the fog a bit with a laser pointer ('cause I happened to have it in my pocket) and was thinking about the way that seeing the beam in the fog gave some perspective help in seeing where things were. It occurred to me that a good addition to the "squidcam" that was used by Scott, Dale, & crew would be to put two laser (or 3 if you're a predator fan) pointing out straight from the camera in parallel. That way, they'd put 2 dots of known separation on anything directly in front of the camera, so they'd provide an exact scale reference. Also, beams going off at an angle might provide some 3-d position help. Using a blue or green laser diode would probably work best, since red is attenuated so much by water, particularly since it looked like it was a black-and-white low-light camera anyway so it wouldn't care about the color.

Of course, the squids might be weirded out by this, but they're also likely to be weirded out by a camera with bright lights, so I don't know that a laser light show would make things any more unnatural.