We had this topic on the earlier board, but just letting you know the first record of a 1 metre diameter 'giant squid' egg mass has just been reported off northeastern New Zealand seconds ago..... photos en route soon. :D :D :D :D

Oh to be diving up there right now!!! Hopefully we'll get samples this year and be able to determine what species is responsible for releasing these structures!
Tallyho
O

....and reports of a second egg-mass sighting have just come through!!

BUZZING!

Excellent!! Keep us posted...

:squid:

What's the chances of these being viable you think?

I'd be pretty sure that the eggs were viable, in the sense that they were fertilised prior to the female's release of the egg sphere ... but I'm not so sure whether collecting small samples of the eggs from an egg mass and maintaining them/'incubating' them in some culture environment is a viable proposition.

The first task is to determine what squid species is releasing them; presto, locate, sample & DNA sequence - not a problem (ok, relocating them might be). Moreover, there seem to be two different egg mass sizes, ~ 1 and ~ 2 metres diameter, so in all likelihood we are dealing with eggs from two different species/genera/families of squid (a little more DNA work). It is possible (quite likely) that these huge egg masses belong to something like an ommastrephid squid (eg, Nototodarus, Ommastrephes, or Todarodes), as opposed to Architeuthis (I just don't believe these egg masses are found in 'the right place' for them to belong to Architeuthis), but all of those ommastrephid genera are comparatively small (mantle lengths considerably less than a metre - nothing like Dosidicus) .... I'm at a loss, unless they belong to something like Mastigoteuthis cordiformis (and I don't believe so) or some rather large onychoteuthid squid (like Moroteuthis, and this I don't believe either)). Questions, questions, questions ....

If the DNA/embryological morphology points to the eggs as being ommastrephid then immediately I'd have to rethink my ideas on the 'hypothetical' Architeuthis egg mass size (I thought it might be ~ 2m) - it would have to be colossal. When initially released by the female it might be ~ 2m in diameter, but after some time, sponging up surrounding seawater, it could get to many metres across. Be cool to bump into a 10m egg mass wouldn't it!!! I dream.

So, stage 1 is to collect the samples and get the things on film (pretty much immediately); stage 2 to DNA them and undertake embryological examination to find out what on earth they belong to (pretty much immediately); stage 3, and this is the dream, to keep them live (Tintenfisch, hurry back from the US of A)... though a dream only (and some say pipe). We're going to try all 3 at once.
Cheers
O

HI Steve,

What techniques do you use to extract and read DNA? I tried when I was in Hobart (admittedly I was trying to use adult mantle and arm tissue) with absolutely no success. We were using an alcohol based extraction tecnique then PCR amplification, the idea was then to do a RAPD analysis. No go!! They have since tried EPICS with no success. This was with both Nototodarus sloanii and N. gouldi there is a real problem getting the DNA out in the first place :( I'd be keen to hear how you do it!!

J :bonk:

Not sure about this one Jean .... I just take a fresh sample and send to my gel friends (I'm no DNA person, but use the info they give me); Peter Smith (NIWA) has done a fair bit of electrophoretic work on the Nototodarus , and he's the chap I use for the 16S and CO1 DNA sequences ... and he's had no problem with Nototodarus before; I've a report somewhere where he describes his techniques (electronic version), so I'll track that down and copy relevant sections/methodology to you via snail mail or private e- (coz it might bore 99.999% of people here ..... a category in which I myself fall). I like whole and live animals!!

It may just be how 'fresh' your tissues were; I'd have thought there was no problem with mantle or arm tissues.

Re the egg spheres, we've got most northeastern NZ divers and dive-charter operators on red alert right now - if a sample is to be got we'll sure get it in the next few days .... watch this space!
Cheers
O

Hi Stve,

I'd appreciate that. I admit I prefer my animals alive and kicking too!!! I was only doing the genetics for completeness!!

J

Hi folks:))

I'm wondering what the followup summary of this was??

Tony.

Those eggs evaded us I'm afraid. We will get them on film one day, and when we do it will be that much more rewarding (there's nothing like a challenge).

I've not heard of any sightings subsequent to the initial ones. We might have to wait until December 2003 to get them, but at least we will be prepared!

Cheers
O

Thanks Steve,

We get what we call moon jellies come in to shore here each easter period. They are cresent shaped and about 5-7 inches in overall diameter and about 1.5 inches thick. They are almost perfectly clear with what looks like tiny sand particles in them.

I always presumed these were just another form of jellyfish however they lack all forms of tentacles or ways of feeding that i can see. They do not have any method of moving around and just move with the currents.

Could these be the egg forms of a ceph??

Tony.

Hey Tony, here on the East Coast of the United States we too get a lot of Moon Jellies in the summer. Their tentacles are hard to see and you wouldnt really notice them unless you were looking at them in an aquarium. Unlike their cousins they feed on tiny organisms that are also at the mercy of the currents.

Thanks Sideways,

I was thinkinf last night that maybe they are a planktonic feeding jelly fish.

Tony.

Thanks Steve,

We get what we call moon jellies come in to shore here each easter period. They are cresent shaped and about 5-7 inches in overall diameter and about 1.5 inches thick. They are almost perfectly clear with what looks like tiny sand particles in them.

I always presumed these were just another form of jellyfish however they lack all forms of tentacles or ways of feeding that i can see. They do not have any method of moving around and just move with the currents.

Could these be the egg forms of a ceph??

Tony.

The size of the structure is small, but a smaller-bodied squid could have released them (if they prove to be squid egg massess). The 'tiny sand particle' reference is most interesting as the 'grains' sound more like eggs (within a gelatinous matrix) than anything with which I am familiar in a typical jellyfish. You'll have to collect a sample and place it beneath a microscope in order to determine what you have.

Cheers
Steve

Here are a couple of pictures that I took of what we call moon jellies out here in california. One of the jellies is a bit worn out (uh, dead actually) from getting bounce off of rocks by the surge. Are these something like what you saw?

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=47

Oops, that was just one picture. Here's the other one:

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=48

Hi Jared,

Thanks for the link pics of your moon jellies, however they are totally unlike the ones that come in here each easter.

These ones are crescent shaped (horse shoe) and are nearly a perfect round cross section. When these things come in again i will take a pic of one ot two to post.

Keep smiling and take care.

Tony.

Something that caught me offguard once was a small crescent-shaped sausage-like alga, the little green cells embedded in a gelatinous matrix (thought I had myself something interesting for ..... a day or so). Looking forward to some pics of this mystery glob so that a name/phylum can be attached to it.
Ta
O

okies Steve, I have got my eyes peeled for the first of them to hit the shores here. As soon as i find one i will snap a few pics and see if i can get a macro shot of the sand like matrix inside them.

Keep smiling and take care.

Tony.

Watch this thread in weeks to come! :wink:

Ta-daaaa... Embryonic squid at ~6 days?!

:!:

Kat, they are precious! What species?

:?

Spectacular picture!

........watch this space also :madsci:

Well, the DNA is in on the 'giant squid' egg mass.

Check out the image on:
http://www.wadedoak.com/_disc1/00000240.htm

The egg mass in question does not belong to Architeuthis, even though the egg masses can reach nearly 2 metres in diameter. They belong to a rather common and quite small (doesn't really get any longer than 2 feet in total length) squid (though I'll leave the details out of this for now). We're working on the manuscript that describes these eggs, and how they are formed, fertilised and released. Shouldn't be that far from submission. They're different in a number of respects from a few other eggs that have been spawned in the laboratory (yes, people have managed this feat, but they have not been able to keep the little guys alive).

Just working out the frequency of observation; 7 of these egg masses have been reported to us now, found between the austral summer months of late November through to early April; 2 have been seen in March and 2 in December, 1 in each of the other months; the usual depths are between 12 and 30 metres. Maybe next summer we'll be fortunate to keep the little embryos going, although it appears that development is quite abnormal when the embryos/eggs are removed from the gelatinous matrix.

Will post an update online when we're further down the track.
Us

:shock: Incredible! Totally sci-fi! 8) How many embryos are contained in one of those things?

Hungry for more; standy by...

Well, we finally got this manuscript off last week, though it takes an eternity before these things are finally published (could be 8 months away yet). Will keep you all posted of developments.
Us

Not nearly so grand as an Architeuthis egg-mass, no, but lowly Loligo has been making her presence felt on Cape Cod's beaches (http://www.capecodchronicle.com/har071003%5F3.htm), this year. I've seen tons of the "sausages" scudding along the bottom of Pleasant Bay (which is separated from the Atlantic by a miles-long barrier beach). In over twenty years of Cape-time, I've never seen them before. Odd.

:|

Clem

....Clem, you should collect some, place them in cylindrical (!!!!) tanks, let them hatch and give this larval-rearing business a try! It's not nearly as hard as it has been made out to be - you'll just need to procure some food items (and I doubt brine shrimp would suffice).

If only I could lay my hands on an abundance of egg masses like this, right now.

Heavens, it's been more than three years since we posted on this thread .... my how time flys!

I was just forwarded this link (http://www.bio.uib.no/www.bio.uib.no/internesider/BIOINFO/2006/info37-2006.pdf) - great if you can speak Norwegian, but the pick on page 4 says it all. Nice stuff!

I'll try and attach a few of the images that have since been lost (over time) through this thread. You can see the New Zealand squid egg masses at the following link (http://www.tonmo.com/science/public/eggedmasses.php).

VERY cool! thanks for the link!

Heavens, it's been more than three years since we posted on this thread .... my how time flys!

I was just forwarded this link (http://www.bio.uib.no/www.bio.uib.no/internesider/BIOINFO/2006/info37-2006.pdf) - great if you can speak Norwegian, but the pick on page 4 says it all. Nice stuff!

I'll try and attach a few of the images that have since been lost (over time) through this thread. You can see the New Zealand squid egg masses at the following link (http://www.tonmo.com/science/public/eggedmasses.php).
Yeah, great old thread! Thanks for the link. I searched for quite a while for a translator for this but no luck.

...great if you can speak Norwegian...

Should Kat be all over this? I thought Norwegian was her next language hobby.

Cheers!

'The picture below is of a 'ball' that is a half-meter in diameter. The underwater photographer could touch the ball and squeeze it, but it returned to its normal form. There was a rod-like (?) material that stretched from side to side in the ball, and there were some noticeable ?bulges [the things around the outside maybe?] around it. It was hollow inside, jellyfish-like, but much thinner than a jellyfish (felt like it was less than 1cm thick). Anyone got an idea? Torleiv Braategard would like to know!'

Brought to you with a little help from flaggermus :wink:

Interesting! Thanks for that.

The "rod" thing is that uneven reddish-looking stick-thing in the center of the sphere, stretching from top to bottom. Do any ideas exist on what that is?

RE: Sinister Norwegian Blob:

http://www.underwatertimes.com/news.php?article_id=91073406251

"A zoology professor and squid expert in New Zealand corroborated by email - the peculiar gelatinous ball was a large squid egg sack."

Who dis anonimees expert?:wink:

Clem

Who dis anonimees expert?:wink:

A 'Sinister New Zealand Blob'?:wink: