i was uncovering rocks in a dirty part of Redondo Beach, CA tidepools when i was surprised to find a CA 2-spot octopus. Body was about the size of a lemon, tentacles maybe 5-6 inches long (though i suck at estimating).

the color blew me away. i have a common brown octo which changes colors but always brown/yellowish/dark brown. This 2-spot octo today was speckled with blue and green and had a nice pink shade on the underside.

a few things to note: i read on here how water parameters have to be impeccable to keep octos, but i'm assuming for tropical ones? because this one today was in REALLY dirty water! 10 feet away was some sort of white film over it, and there was everything from bras to coke cans in this water.

my main question is, if one was to take one of these home to save the $30 at a LFS (and for a nicer color), how strong of a chiller would you need? CA waters are usually low 60s, however octos are in shallow water which is a bit warmer, no?

unfortunately my 1/15 HP nano chiller only goes down to 73, otherwise i could have a free supply of GORGEOUS octos. i can't get over how colorful it was - much more than the brown ones LFS's sell!

actually al octopus need great water chemistry. Remember in the wild they can move away from unsuitable conditions, also it is a sad fact that many do become contaminated with anthropogenic input, it may not kill them but there will still be sublethal effects :sad:

J

True, they can move away. i was stunned he was still alive because he seemed like he couldn't move very quickly and that he was almost stuck there in this 1-inch of dirty water, mud, rocks and plants. he allowed me to pet his mantle but shied away slowly, retracting to a better hiding place.

i just wonder if it's possible to almost save some of these CA types from the dirty waters (and the waters here are VERY dirty!). but, if a huge, expensive chiller is needed that would be unfortunate....

These octopuses are exposed to a variety of temperatures in tidepools. Although ideal conditions might be as low as 59 degrees, they can be kept in the low seventies. Many of our TONMO.com bimacs have been kept in the lower seventies, living as long as 13 or 14months. You could use your chiller or even a fan on the sump to achieve these temperatures.

Nancy

it will do fine at room temp, at 72F. in the summer months in socal rooms can be a lot hotter. to pull the temp down to 73 is ok. they are actually quite hardy being able to withstand the extremes of a tidepool. was it at malaga cove, or by the redondo beach pier? ive seen them at both places. my cousin in pv nextdoor has a few in a roomtemp tank and collects food from the tide pools. zy

i tried it yesterday, captured a 2-spot from a tidepool and have had it in 73 degree water. however, the octo looks really 'tired', if that's the right word. he's not hiding, rather stuck to the glass. he's moved around quite a bit but not all his tentacles are stuck to the glass like most i've seen. some tentacles droop over his head/body. sorta weird, also i haven't seen him go after any of the shore crabs or saltwater spot prawn i've got in there.

any ideas to improve his life? nice-looking octo, nice size....thx

It sounds like he/she is stressed. Do the tentacles look like curlycues? Even though everyone says it is ok to have him in warmer water, I would still try to cool the water down. Put ice cubes in a ziploc bag or blue ice. I kept Southern California invertebrates in a tank for 10 years and they were always less stressed when the water was cold (65-68 F), anytime it got near 70 F, they looked droopy. Is there a place for him to hide? Turn down the lights in the room (and/or tank) and leave him be for awhile.

It sounds like he/she is stressed. Do the tentacles look like curlycues? Even though everyone says it is ok to have him in warmer water, I would still try to cool the water down. Put ice cubes in a ziploc bag or blue ice. I kept Southern California invertebrates in a tank for 10 years and they were always less stressed when the water was cold (65-68 F), anytime it got near 70 F, they looked droopy. Is there a place for him to hide? Turn down the lights in the room (and/or tank) and leave him be for awhile.

this is probably obvious, but you should test everything you can about your water quality, too.

You have a couple of temperature problems. The first is that you took it from a cold ocean and quickly moved it to a warm world where it cannot behaviorally regulate its temperature and the temperature is constant on the warm side. Octopus, like many cold-blooded animals, acclimate to a particular temperature range. They may be able to survive at a different temperature, but not if they are quickly moved from one temperature to another. This will almost surely induce stress and possibly "shock". To take an animal acclimated to winter temperatures and plop it down in the warmest summer temperature it might experience is asking for trouble.

Also, remember that octopus can move in the wild. The tide pool may be 75 degrees, but the animal can usually move just a few feet a down slope or into a deep crevice and find cooler termperatures. They will do this to avoid sudden temperature changes. Your animal didn't have that chance.

A couple of other points. First, did you have a permit to collect the animal from a preserve or at least a fishing license to take it from a non-protected location. Second, octopus have arms, not tentacles. This might seem like a trivial point, but squid have both.

Roy

this is probably obvious, but you should test everything you can about your water quality, too.

Sometimes the most obvious are the things you overlook! One time in the aquarium we needed supplimentary O2 in one of the tanks and we COULD NOT get the aerators to work no matter what we did, we changed all the hoses, pipes air stones etc etc checked the genny (we were in the process of fitting a new aerator system) had gas and so on. We were on the verge of getting the tech back out when we noticed that the aerator wasn't plugged into the genny :oops: :oops: :oops:

J

My first thought is how long did you acclimate? I would have dripped him for a good 2 hours before introducing him into the tank especially if the tank temps and quality of water were that different. Normally, I drip for at least an hour and this is with a captive bred animal. What are your water parameters?

i was told by coast guard and lifeguard guys on the beach near the tidepools that you dont need a license to take inverts, only fish...and even with fish you dont need a license for fish if you're on most SoCal piers. however, there are size guidelines to adhere to.

to the 2-spot octo from the tidepool: i dripped about 1/2 cup of my aquarium water over the course of 3 hours since i work from home and have the time.

then i slowly put him in the aquarium. he looks better now and is moving around quite a bit. his arms aren't as droopy.

my water parameters are perfect - virtually 0 nitrate, 0 ammonia and perfect pH i achieve w/buffer. i do 2 water changes per week since octos produce so much waste.

i still like this 2-spot much better than the common browns who hide all the time.

one question though: i snagged a bunch of shore crabs as that's what Cabrillo Aquarium suggested for a 2-spot, but what is the best way to keep them?

i saw Cabrillo Aquarium had 2 crabs submerged in the octo's tank, but i've had a few die when they're all the way in the water. better to leave them in a bucket with little water, rocks and some seaweed? thanks for all your input, i'm gonna get video up really soon of this guy...

i was told by coast guard and lifeguard guys on the beach near the tidepools that you dont need a license to take inverts, only fish...and even with fish you dont need a license for fish if you're on most SoCal piers. however, there are size guidelines to adhere to.

Just for the record, to keep anyone else reading this thread from getting in trouble, I asked the California Fish & Game folks about this last year, and was told that Bimacs (both species) could not be collected for sale, but could be taken with a sport fishing license. Although it sounds like your local coastguard and lifeguard folks don't know this, if someone is caught by a game warden, I'm not sure "but the lifeguard said it was OK" would get them off the hook. I'm pretty sure you won't get in trouble for your new octo, but I wanted to make sure not to leave this thread giving the wrong impression, since I'm worried some future TONMO reader will get arrested or fined or something.

Roy, since I'm sure you deal with this all the time, perhaps you can provide more details about what permits are required and how one might obtain them? Or are academic/research collection permits all you've dealt with? Thanks!

I'm glad to hear that the octo's looking happier, too, of course!

Its all in here:

2007 Ocean Sport Fishing Regulations (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mrd/sportfishing_regs2007.html)

shore crabs should be OK submerged, after all they are at High Tide!

J

i was uncovering rocks in a dirty part of Redondo Beach, CA tidepools when i was surprised to find a CA 2-spot octopus. Body was about the size of a lemon, tentacles maybe 5-6 inches long (though i suck at estimating).

the color blew me away. i have a common brown octo which changes colors but always brown/yellowish/dark brown. This 2-spot octo today was speckled with blue and green and had a nice pink shade on the underside.

a few things to note: i read on here how water parameters have to be impeccable to keep octos, but i'm assuming for tropical ones? because this one today was in REALLY dirty water! 10 feet away was some sort of white film over it, and there was everything from bras to coke cans in this water.

my main question is, if one was to take one of these home to save the $30 at a LFS (and for a nicer color), how strong of a chiller would you need? CA waters are usually low 60s, however octos are in shallow water which is a bit warmer, no?

unfortunately my 1/15 HP nano chiller only goes down to 73, otherwise i could have a free supply of GORGEOUS octos. i can't get over how colorful it was - much more than the brown ones LFS's sell!



Joe13830- That might be a blue ringed octopus ! Ohhh nooo ! Stay away from those if you get bit the local pet store told me you only have about 10 minutes to live ! :-(

Joe13830- That might be a blue ringed octopus ! Ohhh nooo ! Stay away from those if you get bit the local pet store told me you only have about 10 minutes to live ! :-(

:welcome: Good thing he is in California then... Blue ringed octopus live near Australia and Japan. I think he is safe, although a bite from any octopus can be painful.

Check out this link for more information.

http://marinebio.org/species.asp?id=403

You will definitely need a permit to collect crabs though! Either a collecting permit or a sports fishing license and if Fish and Game catches you - the fact that you didn't know you needed a permit won't get you far...

Also, you need to be mindful that you are not in a marine reserve, you cannot collect in a marine reserve, no matter what kind of permit you have... I think you are ok in Redondo Beach. Cabrillo Beach is a marine reserve, as is most of Palos Verdes peninsula.

See this link for locations of marine reserves in California.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/mrd/mlpa/maps.html

Joe13830- That might be a blue ringed octopus ! Ohhh nooo ! Stay away from those if you get bit the local pet store told me you only have about 10 minutes to live ! :-(

If it's a blue ring, it's pretty far out of its element... they're only found around Australia, Indonesia, and the West Pacific, not over here in California. (Although Norman lists an undescribed species around Southern Japan)

um...NOT a blue-ring, i'm still alive 3 days after playing with 2 different octos in the tidepools.

you need a permit to collect crabs??? as kids we took them in california all the time, no one cares.

i dont feel bad because the waters here are SOOOO dirty - mostly from mexico dumping its crap (literally) into our ocean, thus polluting the coastline. i bet my new octo will be much happier and more active than in the water i found him in, which included a white film, coke bottles and other garbage! marine preserve? preserved with garbage !

what a shame. not to get political, but i wish our "leaders" would spend more $$$ on our own country like our beautiful coastlines instead of spending it on other countries (i.e. iraq).

another interesting thing to note: i was asking a female marine biologist @ Cabrillo Marine Aquarium in San Pedro, CA what the best diet is for an octo.

She told me crabs, but when i complained about how expensive they are, she suggested going right out the door onto cabrillo beach and collecting shore crabs. Never made any mention that it was illegal. An octopus, i can believe, but crabs?

interesting too that octos aren't OK to take but crabs are? they're both inverts...thx for the tip though, i hope mine lives a good while so i dont have to risk arrest snagging another (and touching the sh*tty water!)

another interesting thing to note: i was asking a female marine biologist @ Cabrillo Marine Aquarium in San Pedro, CA what the best diet is for an octo.

She told me crabs, but when i complained about how expensive they are, she suggested going right out the door onto cabrillo beach and collecting shore crabs. Never made any mention that it was illegal. An octopus, i can believe, but crabs?



I used to work at Cabrillo Marine Aquarium, many years ago... :silenced:

I usually don't have to deal with this red-tape because each year I apply for a scientific collecting permit. I have to specifiy the animals I want, pay $50, and notifiy Fish and Game prior to any collecting trips where I will be and what I will be collecting.

A few years ago I had a graduate student who let her permit lapse by a few days. She was feeding Tegula (snails) to her stomatopods and went collecting. She was stopped by a ranger, cited for collecting without a valid license, was hauled into court and fined a dollar for each snail. She had over 200!

This is one of the reasons I take the process very seriously.

Roy

Social Saltwater,

I keep fiddler crabs for trapper which I assume are similar to your shore crabs. Unfortunately, I have to buy mine and have them shipped since I am in-land. I have a two gallon tank subdivided into 1 gallon halves (I don't know that this matters :roll: but I keep 10 on each side) with a small nano filter - carbon filter pad only but constant circulation - a piece of lava rock in each 1 gallon section and a small light over the entire tank. The rock is positioned to allow the crabs to come out of the water when they choose but I keep the water low enough so that they cannot easily escape (I have had one or two "disappear" over the course of almost 3 months - one was reclaimed from the kitchen some 20 feet away). I feed them a small amount of marine fish food and rarely have one die.

I have read that others use empty salt buckets with some rocks stacked to allow surface time.

There is an escapee in my octo tank that cannot easily find surface area and it seems to be doing just fine but the ones in my feeder tank do often use the sunning rock.

I usually don't have to deal with this red-tape because each year I apply for a scientific collecting permit. I have to specifiy the animals I want, pay $50, and notifiy Fish and Game prior to any collecting trips where I will be and what I will be collecting.

A few years ago I had a graduate student who let her permit lapse by a few days. She was feeding Tegula (snails) to her stomatopods and went collecting. She was stopped by a ranger, cited for collecting without a valid license, was hauled into court and fined a dollar for each snail. She had over 200!

This is one of the reasons I take the process very seriously.

Roy


Roy - i sure do appreciate the head's up. now i'm dreading going back to take another octo if this one dies. $50 sounds like a bargain if you consider:

1. octos live a short-time, possibly meaning taking 2 in one year for that $50 license fee

2. alot of special order online aquarium stores have octos in the $40-$60 range anyway

i doubt they'd give me one since i'm not doing any sort of research, except for my own fun and maybe future website.

as for the crabs, yeah i'm keeping mine - which are the same as "fiddlers" - in a bucket with some seaweed, mud/sand, small amount of water + rock in it, feeding them whatever i can give them.

i'm just worried - the octo doesn't seem to be eating much, and i have my chiller down to 73. he's moving around quite a bit, breathing looks to be fine, i just don't see crab bodies or any proof of a good meal eaten!

He's probably still a little stressed. Is there live rock in the tank? He may be getting amphipods from that.

As regards octopus vs crabs, in NZ there is animal protection legislation under which octopus (& other cephs) are defined as animals (although only in the last few years!) but crabs are not!!!!! According to the Act octopus are higher invertebrates and are therefore more likely to suffer stress from inappropriate handling....crabs apparently don't! Which is why in NZ it's still legal to drop a live rock lobster into boiling water :mad: ...........cos "it doesn't hurt it":confused: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Having said all that one doesn't need a permit to collect crabs or octopus..but it does pay to check fishing regulations cos the penalties are severe! Instant forfeiture of any equipment used to collect the animals (including cars, boats, SCUBA gear.....everything, even if it doesn't belong to you!), Then you may get a summons to court where the maximum penalty is fine up to $250,000 and/or a prison term of up to 5 years which can be for EACH species you have!..........It's really not worth it!!!

J