Jim Anderton (NZ Fisheries Minister) has announced the capture of an enormous Mesonychoteuthis hamiltoni specimen. It was caught in Antarctica and is now in NZ. Story is here:

Amazing specimen of world's largest squid in NZ (http://www.beehive.govt.nz/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=28451)

:meso:

dangit, why don't they ever show the EYES in these pictures...

the .doc file at the beginning has some more info: 450kg!

:squidaut:

:shock:

Is this the same squid shown in the three photos posted here? (click) (http://fishing.net.nz/asp_forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=18709) The operation performed to secure the new specimen looks like what's occurring in the third pic.

dangit, why don't they ever show the EYES in these pictures...
Monty, I think they do show one eye! :grin:

Clem

http://www.smh.com.au/news/science/squidzilla-hooked/2007/02/22/1171733932836.html

this one includes another pic:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21269279-30417,00.html

http://www.stuff.co.nz/3970915a10.html

Monty, I think they do show one eye! :grin:

Clem

The full size version at http://www.beehive.govt.nz/Gallery/Img/07-02%20Colossal%20Squid%20with%20skipper%2 0mid.jpg

makes that look like just a fold of mantle or similar; something with skin... sadly.

The full size version makes that look like just a fold of mantle or similar; something with skin... sadly.
Oh, well.:roll:

There's been a lot of squid news of late, hasn't there!

Who knows what is around the corner.

"Dr Steve O'Shea, from the Auckland University of Technology, says the previous largest find weighed 300 kilograms.

He says if calamari were made from the squid the rings would be the size of tractor tyres."

London Doubledecker tires, surely, good Doctor!

I'm thrilled and overjoyed at this, but sorry for the squid itself, obviously. So, will we now finally find out? Large eyes but mostly internalized, looking out thorough relatively tiny slits, as the first pictures seem to suggest?

Steve,
I really looking forward to any report you can provide after studying this incredible animal. Makes me want to come over to NZ today and ask if you need help!

CBC Montreal (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0i-0&fd=R&url=http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/070222/K022202AU.html&cid=1113841843&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM)
New Zealand fishermen catch rare squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1501AP_New_Zealand_Colossal_Squid.html&cid=1113841843&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM)
Seattle Post Intelligencer, WA - 1 hour ago
WELLINGTON, New Zealand -- A fishing crew has caught a colossal squid that could weigh a half-ton and prove to be the biggest specimen ever landed, ...
450kg Beastly Squid Hauled up from the Deep (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-1&fd=R&url=http://www.bitsofnews.com/content/view/5243/44/&cid=1113841843&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM) Bits of News
Biggest ever Colossal squid caught (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-2&fd=R&url=http://www.iol.co.za/index.php%3Fset_id%3D1%26click_id%3D143% 26art_id%3Dnw20070222092527705C301928&cid=1113841843&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM) Independent Online
New Zealand fishermen land massive squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-3&fd=R&url=http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm%3Fid%3D284752007&cid=1113841843&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM) Scotsman
all 104 news articles

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1501AP_New_Zealand_Colossal_Squid.html&cid=1113841843&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM)

New Zealand fishermen catch rare squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/1-0&fd=R&url=http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/16755714.htm&cid=0&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM)
Miami Herald, FL - 19 minutes ago
WELLINGTON, New Zealand - A fishing crew has caught a colossal squid that could weigh a half-ton and prove to be the biggest specimen ever landed, ...


More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/1-0&fd=R&url=http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/16755714.htm&cid=0&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM)


24dash.com (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/2i-0&fd=R&url=http://www.24dash.com/environment/16928.htm&cid=0&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM)
'Colossal' 990lb squid caught by New Zealand fishermen (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/2-0&fd=R&url=http://www.24dash.com/environment/16928.htm&cid=0&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM)
24dash.com, UK - 17 minutes ago
A New Zealand fishing crew has caught and landed an adult specimen of the colossal squid - a sea creature with eyes as big as dinner plates and swivelling, ...


More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/2-0&fd=R&url=http://www.24dash.com/environment/16928.htm&cid=0&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM)

10m Colossal Squid Landed By NZ Fishermen (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/3-0&fd=R&url=http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm%3Fid%3D60472%26rubrik1%3DScien ce%26rubrik2%3DNatural%2520Sciences%26ru brik3%3DOceanography%26sort%3D1%26sparte %3D4&cid=0&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM)
ShortNews.com, Germany - 17 minutes ago
Fishermen in New Zealand have landed what is believed to be a world-record-breaking squid.The squid which took two hours to land in Antarctic waters weighs ...


More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/3-0&fd=R&url=http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm%3Fid%3D60472%26rubrik1%3DScien ce%26rubrik2%3DNatural%2520Sciences%26ru brik3%3DOceanography%26sort%3D1%26sparte %3D4&cid=0&ei=m3bdRaO1N8SEHaS54fwM)

New picture on the BBC page (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6385071.stm)

:shock: Eyes?

...and this 450kg monster definitely is not the one we've recently seen pics of, since that one had a massive wound in the dorsal portion of the mantle. No such injury is visible in the AP-credited photo run by The Australian, or the BBC-hosted Getty Images shot (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/sci_nat_enl_1172138091/html/1.stm) (similar, but better)....

Edit:...as Architeuthoceras has already discovered!

No eyes, only gaffing damage :sad:

OK, any bets on ML? 2,50 m? 2,65 m?

saw this on the tv news last night our own DR SOS was admirably restrained, I'd've been jumping up and down with excitement!!!

I hear it's heading to Te Papa (museum)......Steve are you getting a squiz first??????? Hope so, we'll be waiting for details!!!!!!!!

J

I would suppose it was about 1,45 times the mantle length of the last catched Mesonychoteuthis, this would be a bit over 2m when I remember the mantle length of the juvenile correctly.

Wahoo! :glass:

I can recall from this site (http://homepage1.nifty.com/ozok/ika-story2.htm) that it used to host an image of a huge, big mantle, big finned crimson squid, just below the surface; tiny black eyes. I think at the time Steve commented on that particular one that it was perhaps a spent female Moroteuthis. I would really like to get my hands on that since ommitted (!) photograph now, I feel a strange sense of recognition...

sad that it died, but well done to the crew for managing to get the mantle as well, can't have been easy gaffing [sic] and pulling that weight onboard without the head coming off.

They were actually smart enough to net the brute and save the mantle. Good men, regardless of their toothfishing habit...

Scroll to the bottom of that Japanese site Ob. The image is still there if it's the one I'm thinking of.

No, those are "merely" the first ever pictures of a live Architeuthis, unless the Kyoto ones where earlier; the one that's gone walkabout was in between the arrow and them, if my memory serves me...

OK, any bets on ML? 2,50 m? 2,65 m?
3, 40m ML. Care to wager on mantle circumference?

...Oh man, are we ever nerds.

:lol:

3,40?! You're on, it'll cost you a beer or two :grin:

3,40?! You're on, it'll cost you a beer or two :grin:
I'll gladly buy a round, after you've settled the 3, 40m bar tab.:sagrin:

This thing has such a large mantle its absurd.

Hey quick question...

Would an adult female of this species probably be bigger?

also...

Think the squid died because of the lack of decompression? Rose to the surface to quickly, or does that not matter?

Hey quick question...Would an adult female of this species probably be bigger? also...Think the squid died because of the lack of decompression? Rose to the surface to quickly, or does that not matter?
Hello Danno,

If you haven't read it yet, check out Steve O'Shea's Giant Squid and Colossal Squid Fact Sheet (http://www.tonmo.com/science/public/giantsquidfacts.php). Dr. O'Shea notes that female squid are often larger than the males; there's also a graphic projection of just how sexually dimorphic male and female Mesos might be. The great size of the mature male specimen announced today makes a mature female the next Mesonychoteuthis Grail.

Your second question re: what ailed the squid is a really good one. I can't answer it, but rapid presure change has to be considered; older accounts/photos of Meso catches have indicated more energetic behavior at the surface, but those appear to have been smaller, possibly younger animals. You are sure to get more responses to your questions.

Cheers,
Clem

Usually the thing that kills deep-sea squid brought to the surface is temperature, not pressure. (Since squid have no swim-bladder or other gas-filled spaces in the body, nothing expands much on the way up as far as we know.) In Antarctica, however, temperature shock may be less of a problem, since surface temperatures don't differ as much from the depths as they would in more temperate waters. I'm not sure what Antarctic surface temps are like in the summer though - there could be enough of a difference. (How's that for conclusive and helpful? :roll:)

...sorry, quick interject: I just checked Youtube and there's a slideshow of the new Meso, with an interesting pic at the beginning...I'll delete this post if it's a repeat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l_sMGXPvpA

Edit: See above. The head on this animal looks incredibly strange. Articulation of the arms where they emerge from the crown is almost joint-like, area above what's left of the eye suggestive of a brow, giving it a nearly raptorial look.

There's been a lot of squid news of late, hasn't there!

Who knows what is around the corner.

Yeah, really! And this certainly won't hurt potential funding
of further research!!! The first GOLDEN AGE of BIG SQUID
RESEARCH is in full motion! Yow!!!
:mesonych:
:archi:
:grin:


Vincent

Yeah, really! And this certainly won't hurt potential funding
of further research!!! The first GOLDEN AGE of BIG SQUID
RESEARCH is in full motion! Yow!!!
:mesonych:
:archi:
:grin:


Vincent

I guess the stars are finally right.

... a slideshow of the new Meso, with an interesting pic at the beginning...

Here's a screen cap of the new image if anyone has trouble running YouTube. Great find Clem.

The head on this animal looks incredibly strange. Articulation of the arms where they emerge from the crown is almost joint-like, area above what's left of the eye suggestive of a brow, giving it a nearly raptorial look.

Yeah, the head is tiny - it looks so much narrower than the mantle, especially in the second photo. That's quite different from the 2003 specimen and from most visual representations I've seen. Some other cranchiids have heads that are quite narrow, but big bulgy eyes that make the head appear about the same width as the mantle. Unless this Meso had big googly eyes, that exploded... :bugout:

Eeeeenteresting.

Or maybe, just possibly, a different species Kat? Yes, I know, I know.....:wink:

Oh my god. First those amazing Taningia videos and now this. I am so incredibly psyched-I've been almost wetting my pants with excitement. And you're right, the funding is going to come in like mad now-nothing like real-life sea monsters (bet you five dollars that the documentaries will be using that phrase) to captivate the public imagination!

The finding of this specimen may answer assorted questions, but it also raises some new ones.

The first I heard raised was "Where are we going to put a 450kg colossal squid?":hmm:

The second, raised by almost everyone in the office was "Can we go on a field trip to see it?" Alas the answer to that was no :sad:

Not that there would have been much to see except for a giant icecube at this point. Cant wait (though I suspect I will have to for some time) to see it, or at least decent pictures of it.

It's amazing what newspapers can do even with a press release in hand.

One English one has said that it was caught of the coast of the South Island. Which is true if you are willing to accept that Antarctica is 'off the coast of the South Island'. Of course going by that definition so are an awful lot of places :lol:

Or maybe, just possibly, a different species Kat? Yes, I know, I know.....:wink:

The thought did cross my mind, but maybe I've just been analyzing too many tiny differences in morphology and body proportions lately, trying to sort out the damn Onychoteuthis species :roll:. Mustn't be hasty, but we can :fingerscrossed: ...

... 'off the coast of the South Island'. Of course going by that definition so are an awful lot of places

Yeah, like Australia! :smile:

Excerpt from Dr. Steve's Giant Squid and Colossal Squid Fact Sheet (http://www.tonmo.com/science/public/giantsquidfacts.php):
Mesonychoteuthis lacks a hectocotylus – a specially modified arm used to transfer spermatophores to the female. As a rule, species that lack a hectocotylus have a relatively large penis, and presumably they use this organ directly to implant spermatophores hydraulically into the female. As no mature Mesonychoteuthis male or female is known, we cannot begin to guess how the monster does its business.
Does this mean that this specimen presents the first opportunity for us to better understand Mesonychoteuthis'... how shall I say... John Thomas?

Everything I've heard since they pulled it up suggests it was entirely intact. So unless that particular bit happened to drop off for some reason just before it came on board everything should be present and accounted for.

wish it wasnt killed..

:welcome: to TONMO, Cairnos! Since your profile says you're with the ministry, I'm wondering if you have any inside scoop... I'm very curious if the eyes are in good condition, and if there are any other pictures available, and if there are higher-res versions of the pics from the press release... also, Reuters seems to have an extra pic in their slideshow video that's not part of any press stills package, and that's the one that's might show an eye... Any idea if we could get those sorts of this here on TONMO?

Of course, your profile doesn't say if you really have any connections, so I apologize if I'm being inappropriately enthusiastic, and you're just an interested squid-fan who happens to work at the Ministry...

But I'm glad to see you here, in any case :grin:

But I'm glad to see you here, in any case :grin:

As am I! :welcome:

What a day!

:welcome: Cairnos

So, Steve, how long have you known about this?

I don't think I saw this blog referenced on this discussion, but http://www.squidblog.com/ has some other pics I also don't think I noticed on this discussion.

squidblog is actually how I found tonmo not to long ago

Hi looks2ce and Cairnos,

The pictures to which you referred to over at Squidblog we believe probably referred to a different capture, probably on the 8th January. It's almost certain that two colossals have been caught within a couple of weeks of each other but the media is beginning to mix up the two incidents. There was no press release over the first photos and as they have only begun to emerge in the last few days it's understandable that they have begun to be confused. It's all a bit of a mess at the moment, but stay tuned, I'm sure the truth will emerge here fairly soon.

Interesting times, eh?

believe me Phil - I am staying tuned :):)


just a short time ago I thought architeuthis was it. The biggest and last mystery of the deep (cephalogically speaking of course).

Colossal squid caught by New Zealand fishermen (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/1-0&fd=R&url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070223.WORLDS23-3/TPStory/International&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)
Globe and Mail, Canada - 21 minutes ago
Wellington -- A New Zealand fishing crew has caught an adult colossal squid, a sea creature with eyes as big as dinner plates and razor-sharp hooks on its ...

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/1-0&fd=R&url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070223.WORLDS23-3/TPStory/International&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)

450 kg colossal squid caught (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/2-0&fd=R&url=http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html%3Fid%3D27dab8d7-957a-4b74-8f36-ad3ff1b0a49b&cid=1109129877&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)
Vancouver Province (subscription), Canada - 1 hour ago
WELLINGTON -- A New Zealand fishing crew has caught an adult colossal squid, a sea creature with eyes as big as dinner plates and razor-sharp hooks on its ...

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/2-0&fd=R&url=http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html%3Fid%3D27dab8d7-957a-4b74-8f36-ad3ff1b0a49b&cid=1109129877&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)

Giant squid found (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/3-0&fd=R&url=http://www.skynews.com.au/story.asp%3Fid%3D155908&cid=1113879740&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)
Sky News Australia, Australia - 6 hours ago
The crew landed the Colossus Squid in the Antarctic's Ross Sea, proof of a giant animal which was previously thought to be mythological. ...

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/3-0&fd=R&url=http://www.skynews.com.au/story.asp%3Fid%3D155908&cid=1113879740&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)

A Very Large Squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/4-0&fd=R&url=http://technocrat.net/d/2007/2/22/15232&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)
Technocrat.net, MA - 6 hours ago
Fishermen down in Antarctica have caught a new world record giant squid. One o the few completely intact specimens ever recovered, it tips the scales at 450 ...

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/4-0&fd=R&url=http://technocrat.net/d/2007/2/22/15232&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)

Hooked : Fishermen haul up a giant squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/5-0&fd=R&url=http://www.unison.ie/worldnews/stories.php3%3Fca%3D32%26si%3D1782092&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)
Unison.ie (subscription), Ireland - 6 hours ago
FOR centuries they have been the stuff of sailors' nightmares - enormous squid dwelling in the depths of the ocean. But fishermen in New Zealand came face ...

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/5-0&fd=R&url=http://www.unison.ie/worldnews/stories.php3%3Fca%3D32%26si%3D1782092&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)

Colossal Squid caught, (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/6-0&fd=R&url=http://www.geekzone.co.nz/inane/2333&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)
Geekzone, New Zealand - 11 hours ago
however according to reports I have read, if anything was going to be doing these attacks (that we know of) then its more likely to be the colossal squid ...

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/6-0&fd=R&url=http://www.geekzone.co.nz/inane/2333&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)

Mammoth task to display giant squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/7-0&fd=R&url=http://www.tv3.co.nz/News/NewsDisplay/tabid/209/articleID/21828/Default.aspx&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)
TV3 News, New Zealand - 10 hours ago
The 450 kg squid, which was hauled out of the depths of the Antarctic, is being considered for display at the national museum. ...

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/7-0&fd=R&url=http://www.tv3.co.nz/News/NewsDisplay/tabid/209/articleID/21828/Default.aspx&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)


TV3 News (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/8i-0&fd=R&url=http://www.tv3.co.nz/News/NewsDisplay/tabid/209/articleID/21804/Default.aspx&cid=1113865326&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)
Collosal squid to be studied at Te Papa (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/8-0&fd=R&url=http://www.tv3.co.nz/News/NewsDisplay/tabid/209/articleID/21804/Default.aspx&cid=1113865326&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)
TV3 News, New Zealand - 16 hours ago
A marine biologist has praised a commercial fishing crew, for their care in hauling an adult colossal squid on board in one piece. ...
Creature from the deep to be studied at Te Papa (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/8-1&fd=R&url=http://www.tv3.co.nz/News/HealthScienceNews/tabid/191/articleID/21804/Default.aspx&cid=1113865326&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8) TV3 News
all 3 news articles

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/8-0&fd=R&url=http://www.tv3.co.nz/News/NewsDisplay/tabid/209/articleID/21804/Default.aspx&cid=1113865326&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)

What do colossal squid and DS and PSP games have in common? (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/9-0&fd=R&url=http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Various/news.asp%3Fc%3D2403&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)
Pocket Gamer, UK - 17 hours ago
Incidentally, did you hear about the New Zealand fishermen who have recently landed what is thought to be a world record-breaking squid at some 10 metres in ...

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/9-0&fd=R&url=http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Various/news.asp%3Fc%3D2403&cid=0&ei=LcjeRYalNrTIHNGb-G8)

The proportions are really strange and it shows in this aspect really not much resemblance to the life-sized squid-model from the animal-face-off series...and looks also very different from my little Mesonychoteuthis-sculpture.

Hi looks2ce and Cairnos,

The pictures to which you referred to over at Squidblog we believe probably referred to a different capture, probably on the 8th January. It's almost certain that two colossals have been caught within a couple of weeks of each other but the media is beginning to mix up the two incidents. There was no press release over the first photos and as they have only begun to emerge in the last few days it's understandable that they have begun to be confused. It's all a bit of a mess at the moment, but stay tuned, I'm sure the truth will emerge here fairly soon.

Interesting times, eh?

What do we know here Phil? Can we have a summary of the situation as it stands?

If I understand correctly. The NZ Colossal that was featured on the BBC news site is one capture, but there appears to be another capture from January, now with different pics? What's the source on the 8th jan story?

Curiouser and curiouser.

What do we know here Phil? Can we have a summary of the situation as it stands?
Hello Capn',

I'll post what little more I know later, possibly in a separate thread to mitigate confusion. (From reading the news, you'd sometimes think that Archie, Meso and Taningia were the same species.) For now: those other pics are dated January 8, 2007, and were sent by the boat's skipper to a contact in the US. More story and pics to come, surely!

Cheers,
Adam

Clem is a man of his word, for the other Colossal Squid recently caught go to this thread here

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?p=88285#post88285

Head's reeling so much, I think I've got the bends. Momentous days for Giant Ceph Science!

Hello Captain,

Man, I know what you mean! We've enjoyed an embarassment of riches in the last few months.

Yeah, the head is tiny - it looks so much narrower than the mantle, especially in the second photo....Unless this Meso had big googly eyes, that exploded...:bugout:
...when I put the two overall shots side-by-side, I see exactly what you mean. My:twocents:? First shot the squid's still alive (one harpoon is entering the head), second shot it's dead (two harpoons solidly in the head). Kat, my bet is that you're right, that the hemispherical eyes ruptured within the brachial crown once those two harpoons went in, and the head shrank accordingly. The deflated, flattened mantle contributes to the impression of a tiny head, as does the angle at which the shot was taken. Perspective plays funny tricks on 2-D squid.:wink:

Cheers,
Clem

Here's a slightly different take on the matter, this time from the skipper of the San Aspiring, John Bennett.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/nelsonmail/3971766a6510.html

And here's a totally different take on the matter again (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/02/24/do2404.xml), and probably that which I like best of all!

and the fact that it's sending kudos your way is what? coincidental? :roll:

I am just tired of constantly justifying the sort of research we do when there is no obvious actual or perceived immediate value.

There is so much commercially driven research undertaken today; it is stiffling creativity.

I like that one too, Steve. It isn't all about the money.

Steve, I just sent you a PM.

I am just tired of constantly justifying the sort of research we do when there is no obvious actual or perceived immediate value.

There is so much commercially driven research undertaken today; it is stiffling creativity.

If it helps any, I may just look like a novice, but I posted a few comments here: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/02/colossal_squid.php explaining why I thought this find is exciting, interesting, worthwhile, useful, and such. I'm sure you either already know or can poke holes in all of what I said, but perhaps my naive enthusiasm can evoke a laugh in your bitter frustration, or something? Plus, some other commenter said to ask you about the time you left a squid on your desk when you went on holiday and made a large olfactory impression on the whole lab, or something like that...

but, although I agree with that OpEd that the fickle public just has a momentary flash of interest in giant squids when they appear on the media, there is really some significance to your work.

Steve, check out this guy, http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/, he has a lot to say about what school should be and what it was designed for. Thirty years teaching in New York, teacher of the year a few times, and now he blasts the whole idea of compulsory school out of the water, saying that is designed to create a controllable herd.

I wish there was one teacher like him in every public school, since he routinely allowed his students to get jobs in something that they were interested in instead of sitting in class without the admin ever knowing about it.

Colossal.

I am just tired of constantly justifying the sort of research we do when there is no obvious actual or perceived immediate value.

There is so much commercially driven research undertaken today; it is stiffling creativity.

I don’t understand why anyone would have to justify why they research squid. People research a lot of different things without there being apparent value for it (like history or physics). Squids are fascinating, and there is so much unknown about them. Why would anyone not want to know more about something that we share a planet with?

Neat, I'm learning a lot, thanks guys.

La science pour la science, with you lot all the way! So.... back to Clem's deflated eye theory? Isn't the squid's inner eye also vitreous, in which case it would not leak away? Isn't this maybe sexual dimorphism, rather?

La science pour la science, with you lot all the way! So.... back to Clem's deflated eye theory? Isn't the squid's inner eye also vitreous, in which case it would not leak away? Isn't this maybe sexual dimorphism, rather?

One of the major taxonomic criteria for squids is the presence or absence of a cornea: http://www.tolweb.org/Decapodiformes/19404 so in the case of Mesonychoteuthis, which is in Oegopsida (as is Architeuthis), there is no cornea. I think this means that the inner eye is open to seawater, so the area that has vitreous humor in humans is just sea water in the cornea-less taxa, but I can't find a specific reference to whether there's some sort of humor-like stuff that's just not sealed from seawater, or whether it's just filled with seawater...

Anyway, without coreneas, I'd expect the eyes to either drain or dry out, but I don't know that "popping" is an issue since they're not sealed anyway.

Monty, that is very interesting, what a good find. Is part of the interior of the brachial crown also open to seawater? Will there be a Colossal Squid Necroscopy II? It'd be sweet if there were a way to stabilize a relatively intact drained eye and temporarily re-inflate it, to get a sense of the shape and volume....dunno, put the eye in a tank of saline, insert a balloon and slowly inflate the ballon with water? Many question marks, the eyes being two big ones, but I'm also looking forward to learning more about the siphonal structure.

Cheers,
Clem

Monty, that is very interesting, what a good find. Is part of the interior of the brachial crown also open to seawater? Will there be a Colossal Squid Necroscopy II? It'd be sweet if there were a way to stabilize a relatively intact drained eye and temporarily re-inflate it, to get a sense of the shape and volume....dunno, put the eye in a tank of saline, insert a balloon and slowly inflate the ballon with water? Many question marks, the eyes being two big ones, but I'm also looking forward to learning more about the siphonal structure.

Cheers,
Clem

I don't know if there's a standard way to re-inflate the eyes, but I assume that our Teuthologist friends know more... I get tens or hundreds of hits when I google for info on dissecting and preserving squids, so I'll just wait until Steve, Kat, and others who have probably read all that stuff chime in. It's not obvious from anything I've read what the "open to seawater" aspect actually entails... if it is a very low-flow opening, for example, and if the eye's shape is maintained by some sort of elastic or rigid shape of the eyeball, or if there's some kind of gelatinous goop that is just in contact with the seawater, or what.

From tolweb, I gather that non-squid coleoids, except for spirula, tend to either have corneas or evidence that they once did (mentioned on the octopodae page), so I'm not sure how this works in squids. Nixon & Young don't mention corneas at all in their discussion of ceph eyes, as far as I can tell, which seems odd, since they do discuss retinas and the optic nervous system quite a bit.

I should credit Hallucigenia with spotting the cornea thing in tolweb and pointing it out to me a month or two ago, so I really just remembered when this came up... but I suppose the real credit goes to the folks who put tolweb together!

:welcome: to TONMO, Cairnos! Since your profile says you're with the ministry, I'm wondering if you have any inside scoop... :

Unfortunately not really. I work next door to the observer group and my boss got the job of coordinating what was done with it but I haven't seen any other pics than those that were released. The ships crew are more likely to have additional pictures/footage. There are some other pictures floating around but they relate to a previous capture by a different boat.

Clem, I like your thinking, but actually I think the head is the same size relative to the mantle in both photos - it's just that in the first photo (on the left), the head is off to the side (completely to the right of the dorsal midline, marked in white dotted line - you can see the 'bump' in the anterior margin that marks the midline), with the nearer (left) half of the mantle in shadow and submerged so that you almost can't see it (entire mantle width, as I see it, marked in yellow). In the second photo (on the right) the head is centered so you can properly see how narrow it is. To me, this specimen's head (in both photos) looks much smaller relative to the mantle width (head width (HW, marked in green) <50% mantle width (MW)) than in the 2003 specimen (see attached - in fresh defrosted shot, the head is only slightly narrower than the mantle, HW ~90% MW, and in the preserved shot, HW ~75% MW)).
More on the googly eyes in the following post...

OK. It is possible (and seems likely) that we way overestimated the Mesonychoteuthis eyes in the Discovery model. Unfortunately there are no good lateral head-shots of this or any other Meso specimen (that I know of), so we don't know for sure. What we do know is that other somewhat closely related cranchiids have very large, very googly, very delicate eyes (see attached shots of preserved Teuthowenia (http://www.tolweb.org/Teuthowenia/19560) (pellucida I think?))... IF Meso had eyes like this, then it seems likely they might have been damaged on the way to the surface or at the surface, through contact with the longline/hooks, the side of the ship, or the gaffs, prior to the photographs. When the eyes are damaged/ruptured/deflated, sometimes you get a flaccid deflated balloon of an eyeball, but more often in preserved specimens I have just seen an empty eye socket. So it is possible that Meso has big googly eyes and hence a much wider head in life than it appears in these photos.
Either way, the head/eyes of the 2003 specimen were so mangled as to prevent any useful reconstruction, yet the head width still appears similar to that of the mantle. Whether the present specimen's eyes are gone or intact, its head appears relatively far narrower...
Guess we just have to wait to see it!! :twisted:

Thanks Tintenfisch -- very insightful and makes sense. Handsome pics too... :bugout:

Handsome pics too... :bugout:

Yeah, lovely, why wouldn't anyone want to study squid? :roll:

Handsome pics too... :bugout:

Except for the critter in the top pic, using what looks like mesh to act like groucho...

It's the fluorescent lighting reflecting, but I like the way you're thinking:grin:

I am just tired of constantly justifying the sort of research we do when there is no obvious actual or perceived immediate value.

I was talking to someone the other day and at one point they said "But why did they need to collect it at all?" and I had one of those moments when you realise that you're talking to someone who speaks the same language, was raised in the same society and yet has a thought process so alien to your own that true communication is virtually impossible.

I get this sort of question all of the time - the 'why collect it at all' - and I haven't got an appropriate answer.

When I speak out about fisheries impacts (sorry, the 'effects of fishing') I get damned by the industry and some in the Ministry. When I don't speak out about these 'effects' I get damned by the public, accused of selling out by the conservation lobby.

The only peace I will ever find is when I walk away from cephalopods/the marine environment and go research moon rocks. Nobody seems to care if you collect a moon rock!

The only peace I will ever find is when I walk away from cephalopods/the marine environment and go research moon rocks. Nobody seems to care if you collect a moon rock!

How dare you defile the garden of the Moon-Goddess! Get your grubby hands off those rocks! Moonrocks are people too!

:roll:

Nobody seems to care if you collect a moon rock!
Moon-Men care. (http://www.silentsf.com/Project_Melies/Melies_HTML/Tableau_20.html)

Moon-Men care. (http://www.silentsf.com/Project_Melies/Melies_HTML/Tableau_20.html)

http://www.live-evil.com/moonquotes.html

Do I have to pay Boston a million dollars now?

This is perhaps getting a tad off-topic. And the moon may be OK, but people can get rather up in arms if you get involved in the politics of cephalopod rocks on Mars, apparently.

On-topic, sans Selenites (but with googly eyes), here's a living Teuthowenia at 880m, from Alvin. (http://people.whitman.edu/~yancey/squid880m.jpg) Beautiful animal, photographed near cold methane seeps west of Oregon.

http://people.whitman.edu/~yancey/califseeps.html

Edit:...another angle on the same squid (http://people.whitman.edu/~yancey/squid880mB.jpg) was hiding in a corner Yancey's main Deep Sea page. Sorry for messy posting, it's time for bed.:sleeping:

Actually, that mantleshape isn't at all that different from Meso, is it? Bar the fins, obviously. Based on the recent pictures and that of the trawled Russian specimen I still put my money on huge eyes peeking out through relatively tiny slits, however. Not sure whether they would be lidded, I'll do an artist's impression to post later on, to maybe explain a bit better what I mean...

New Zealand fishermen catch colossal squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://reports.discoverychannel.ca/servlet/an/discovery/1/20070226/070222_discovery_new_zealand_squid/20070226%3Fhub%3DDiscoveryReport&cid=0&ei=CQ7kReT_EJuaHLfijX8)
Discovery Reports Canada, Canada - 19 hours ago
Fishing for Patagonian toothfish in the deep waters off Antarctica, the unsuspecting group caught the largest Colossal squid ever found. ...


More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://reports.discoverychannel.ca/servlet/an/discovery/1/20070226/070222_discovery_new_zealand_squid/20070226%3Fhub%3DDiscoveryReport&cid=0&ei=CQ7kReT_EJuaHLfijX8)

New Zealand fishermen catch rare squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/4-0&fd=R&url=http://www.localnewswatch.com/jordanfalls/stories/index.php%3Faction%3Dfullnews%26id%3D677 83&cid=1113990331&ei=CQ7kReT_EJuaHLfijX8)
Jordan Falls News, IA - Feb 24, 2007
WELLINGTON, New Zealand - A fishing crew has caught a colossal squid that could weigh a half-ton and prove to be the biggest specimen ever landed, ...


More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/4-0&fd=R&url=http://www.localnewswatch.com/jordanfalls/stories/index.php%3Faction%3Dfullnews%26id%3D677 83&cid=1113990331&ei=CQ7kReT_EJuaHLfijX8)

New Zealand Fishermen Catch Rare Squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/7-0&fd=R&url=http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2007/02/24/ap/science/d8nf2f7g0.txt&cid=0&ei=CQ7kReT_EJuaHLfijX8)
Wyoming News, WY - Feb 23, 2007
WELLINGTON, New Zealand - A fishing crew has caught a colossal squid that could weigh a half-ton and prove to be the biggest specimen ever landed, ...


More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/7-0&fd=R&url=http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2007/02/24/ap/science/d8nf2f7g0.txt&cid=0&ei=CQ7kReT_EJuaHLfijX8)

Call me colossal (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/8-0&fd=R&url=http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/2/26/73322/4892&cid=0&ei=CQ7kReT_EJuaHLfijX8)
Grist Magazine, WA - 17 hours ago
It took two hours to land what is presumably the largest and only mature male specimen of a colossal squid -- a rare find indeed. ...


More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/8-0&fd=R&url=http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/2/26/73322/4892&cid=0&ei=CQ7kReT_EJuaHLfijX8)

Based on the recent pictures and that of the trawled Russian specimen I still put my money on huge eyes peeking out through relatively tiny slits, however. Not sure whether they would be lidded, I'll do an artist's impression to post later on, to maybe explain a bit better what I mean...
Loooking forward to it, ob. Re: the Russian specimen, I have some thoughts about that one, too...I think we're on the same page. Later today I'll post that pic in one of the older Meso threads. Here's a question about weight: is there a formula for determining the "wet" weight of a large, living squid, or any squid? Been thinking about how much of Meso's weight could be put behind that post holer-like beak.

To get a better sense of scale within the recent photos, does anyone know much about harpoons? The ones sticking through Meso's head? If we knew how long they were, or how long each section was, having that reference would be handy. (Or we paint double-decker bus profiles on the sides of all longliners.)* :roll:

Cheers,
Clem

*BBC linked to TONMO on their page. Woo! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6385071.stm)

New Zealand fishermen catch rare squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/1-0&fd=R&url=http://www.localnewsleader.com/olberlin/stories/index.php%3Faction%3Dfullnews%26id%3D693 01&cid=1114015722&ei=2F_lRbT9PKCIsgHOpoTADA)
Olberlin, KS - 6 hours ago
WELLINGTON, New Zealand - A fishing crew has caught a colossal squid that could weigh a half-ton and prove to be the biggest specimen ever landed, ...
New Zealand fishermen catch colossal squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/1-1&fd=R&url=http://reports.discoverychannel.ca/servlet/an/discovery/1/20070226/070222_discovery_new_zealand_squid/20070226%3Fhub%3DDiscoveryReport&cid=1114015722&ei=2F_lRbT9PKCIsgHOpoTADA) Discovery Reports Canada
95bFM: The Tuesday Wire with Richard Beniston (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/1-2&fd=R&url=http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0702/S00259.htm&cid=1114015722&ei=2F_lRbT9PKCIsgHOpoTADA) Scoop.co.nz (press release)
all 3 news articles

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Get out your gear, it's time to catch stripers (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/3-0&fd=R&url=http://independent.gmnews.com/news/2007/0228/Sports/048.html&cid=1114015163&ei=2F_lRbT9PKCIsgHOpoTADA)
Holmdel Independent, NJ - 8 hours ago
tractor-trailer tires, AP said, citing Steve O'Shea, a squid expert at the Auckland University of Technology. The animal would be 330 pounds heavier than ...


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Discovery brings back memories of PI's 'Squidly' (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/7-0&fd=R&url=http://www.salemnews.com/local/local_story_058121214&cid=0&ei=2F_lRbT9PKCIsgHOpoTADA)
SalemNews.com, MA - 16 hours ago
PLUM ISLAND - Fishermen in the Antarctic waters south of New Zealand caught something unexpected last week when they hauled in a half-ton colossal squid ...


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New Zealand fishermen catch rare squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/8-0&fd=R&url=http://www.localnewsleader.com/elytimes/stories/index.php%3Faction%3Dfullnews%26id%3D677 83&cid=0&ei=2F_lRbT9PKCIsgHOpoTADA)
Ely Times, NV - Feb 24, 2007
WELLINGTON, New Zealand - A fishing crew has caught a colossal squid that could weigh a half-ton and prove to be the biggest specimen ever landed, ...


More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/8-0&fd=R&url=http://www.localnewsleader.com/elytimes/stories/index.php%3Faction%3Dfullnews%26id%3D677 83&cid=0&ei=2F_lRbT9PKCIsgHOpoTADA)

There are definitely gloved hands in the picture frames, and these gaffs are probably some sort of standard fishing equipment. My gut feeling tells me this is a ML that's still a significant bit short of 3 meters (10 ft), but I truly hope to be forced to settle a 3,40 m bar tab :grin:

Weekly News | Christian Views (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/3-0&fd=R&url=http://www.worldmag.com/articles/12735&cid=0&ei=oQLoRZPFNrK8sAHYntHgBQ)
World Magazine - 5 hours ago
The largest documented colossal squid is finally out of the waters. Fishermen off the coast of New Zealand pulled in what most believe is the largest squid ...


More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/3-0&fd=R&url=http://www.worldmag.com/articles/12735&cid=0&ei=oQLoRZPFNrK8sAHYntHgBQ)

New Zealand fishermen catch rare squid (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/5-0&fd=R&url=http://www.localnewsleader.com/olberlin/stories/index.php%3Faction%3Dfullnews%26id%3D693 01&cid=0&ei=oQLoRZPFNrK8sAHYntHgBQ)
Olberlin, KS - Feb 27, 2007
WELLINGTON, New Zealand - A fishing crew has caught a colossal squid that could weigh a half-ton and prove to be the biggest specimen ever landed, ...


More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/5-0&fd=R&url=http://www.localnewsleader.com/olberlin/stories/index.php%3Faction%3Dfullnews%26id%3D693 01&cid=0&ei=oQLoRZPFNrK8sAHYntHgBQ)

How's this for size comparison: a larger uncropped version of the one already out there, showing most of one of the fishermen attending. It's from the nat geo website, big, but I do wonder whether it's really that much larger than the 2003 specimen...

When did the School Bus replace the London double-decker? Someone Americanized the chart!! :mrgreen:

Shame on these Colonials! Anyway, I think these are the eyes, if I'm not mistaken; the head is distorted through gaffing, giving the somewhat peculiar impression of smallness.

OK, I just did these sketches during lunch break using MS paint and my mouse, so no comments on artistic qualities, please....

I'm a tad worried about the purported size of the animal also, based on the pics. However, if there's a good 5 metres between the deck and the water level then that animal could well be huge (I don't know the lay of the vessel concerned, but I seriously doubt that the water line is that close to the deck, especially on a boat working in the Antarctic).

They must have hauled up ~ 450kg, as they had plenty of opportunity to weigh it at Sanfords when it returned (egg on face if seriously exaggerated). However, this could include a tremendous amount of water in that mantle, making it very heavy. Then again, the deck shot (with skipper) is of a deflated squid, water gone, and this must be what was weighed.

That it has been 'folded up' inside a plastic tub of dimensions 1.2m x 1.2m makes it appear small as well (that's not a big box).

We'll see soon enough. I don't think we'll be disappointed.

Nor do I; it's by all means a sizeable animal and if it's indeed a mature male we'll have a field day getting to grips with all those new insights! Just imagine it's only two or three years old, for instance, and there's the main issue of the eye morphology to consider, can't wait for all of that, quite honestly (jumps up and down in anticipation).

Brilliant reconstruction Ob, looks great to me.

Just a suggestion, but perhaps one of you clever chaps could work out how long the harpoons were via the black bars on the length, and then couple that with angular vectoring to work out a provisional squid length?

If the black bars are regularly spaced and we can work out what the length of the harpoon is, and possibly cross-referencing the result with early Jan Messie photo, then a tentative length might be arrived at?

(Easy for me to say as I have not got a clue how to do this...)

Brilliant reconstruction Ob, looks great to me.

Just a suggestion, but perhaps one of you clever chaps could work out how long the harpoons were via the black bars on the length, and then couple that with angular vectoring to work out a provisional squid length?

If the black bars are regularly spaced and we can work out what the length of the harpoon is, and possibly cross-referencing the result with early Jan Messie photo, then a tentative length might be arrived at?

(Easy for me to say as I have not got a clue how to do this...)

Gaffs are most likely 3-4m. It looks as if the mantle slopes back down into the water which is probable forshortenning it.

2,65 meters

Stuff.co.nz (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0i-0&fd=R&url=http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/3991342a7693.html&cid=1114397792&ei=K3X2RYW6D5K8sgGU9OyjAQ)
Colossal Squid Delivered To Te Papa (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.newswire.co.nz/main/viewstory.aspx%3Fstoryid%3D362949%26cati d%3D0&cid=1114397792&ei=K3X2RYW6D5K8sgGU9OyjAQ)
newswire.co.nz, New Zealand - 5 hours ago
Options concerning the possible displaying of the squid are still to be decided while scientists will begin examining the specimen over the next few days.
Massive squid to be shipped to museum (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-1&fd=R&url=http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/Massive-squid-to-be-shipped-to-museum/2007/03/13/1173722420503.html&cid=1114397792&ei=K3X2RYW6D5K8sgGU9OyjAQ) The Age
Colossal squid on its way to Te Papa (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-2&fd=R&url=http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm%3Fc_id%3D1%26objectid%3D104285 36&cid=1114397792&ei=K3X2RYW6D5K8sgGU9OyjAQ) New Zealand Herald
Giant squid off to Te Papa (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-3&fd=R&url=http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/3991342a7693.html&cid=1114397792&ei=K3X2RYW6D5K8sgGU9OyjAQ) Stuff.co.nz
TV3 News (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-4&fd=R&url=http://www.tv3.co.nz/News/NewsDisplay/tabid/209/articleID/23020/Default.aspx&cid=1114397792&ei=K3X2RYW6D5K8sgGU9OyjAQ)
all 8 news articles

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Ob, I think your reconstruction of the inflated eyes is quite excellent.

Hello all, here's some more Jazz from the BBC on the messie

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6453997.stm

I concur on the subject of the reconstruction, excellent work Ob.

Interesting that Bruce Marshall doesn't believe it's a male........I rather hope it is! Apart for the value to science, I like the idea of a REALLY BIG MOMMA out there!!!!!!!

J

Bruce Marshall:
"It's extremely unlikely to be a male," says Marshall. "If it is a male, the mind boggles at how big the female would be."
Steve O'Shea (via MSNBC/Newsweek):
Three years ago [O'Shea] proposed that a colossal squid could grow as big as half a ton. The reaction of his colleagues? “The scientific community laughed at me,” he says.
Was Marshall a member of that chorus?

The MSNBC/Newsweek piece (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17506125/site/newsweek/) is definitely worth a read. This caught my eye:
Bennett hurried to the deck to confer with Geoff Dolan, an observer from the New Zealand Ministry of Fisheries who was on board. International law requires that anything caught in Antarctic waters must be kept onboard and documented to guard against overfishing. So Bennett really didn’t have a choice but to haul in the squid. “We decided to get him onboard in as good a condition as we could,” says Bennett. “If we’d released him, he wouldn’t have survived.” By then the crew had gaffed the creature in an attempt to get it off the line.
I've entertained some doubts as to just how distressed this animal really was when it appeared, and this latest version of events makes me wonder more. Perhaps it was dying, due to changes in pressure or temperature, or perhaps it was exhibiting some post-feeding torpor (food coma). The crew helpfully rendered any argument moot by stabbing the animal while the Captain was off conferring with the fisheries observer. (What constitutes being caught, anyhow? Does holding on to a hooked tootfish count?) Mr. Bennett is to be commended for knowing the scientific value of his find, but there's something about this narrative that doesn't add up.

Clem