Cephalopods are major figures in one of man's least noble popular enterprises: propaganda.

Despite their generally shy, retiring habits, octopus have long been used to connote villainy and dark intent. As such, they have also long been staples of propaganda illustrations. Their "alien" plan and features fit comfortably within the menagerie of animal images used to de-humanize a political opponent or military foe; their shyness can be made to seem seditious; and, their spoke-like arm corona fits nicely over a map or globe.

Typically, the Enemy Octopus stands in for a nation or distinct community, and not as an individual. The octopus has been cast as Nazi fascist, Jewish conspiracist and English imperialist (http://www.hatii.arts.gla.ac.uk/MultimediaStudentProjects/00-01/9703597b/mmcourse/project/images/octopus.jpg). They've stood in for Antwerp (http://www.newberry.org/nl/smith/slidesets/vs1_image3.htm), of all places. Stretch out the arms and they span the distance from 1904 Japan to 2003 internet, anti-Russian sentiment (http://www.bigredhair.com/boilerplate/soldier/bp.octopus.html) to anarchist website (http://www.fighttheoctopus.com/images/themes/theme_akoblueblocks/logo.gif).

There's a lot out there, so let's collect it and take it apart. If any TONMO'ers find material that's offensive or in questionable taste, please don't hesitate to submit it for private comment before posting. Don't want any racist, nationalist or otherwise violent types coming to TONMO for clip-art.

Clem

From the Netherlands, here's an anti-globalization outfit's rendition of a malevolent, capitalist cephalopod:

http://www.rnw.nl/informarn/assets/images/wto-krake.jpg

:x :x :x i dont know which to be madder about....the demonizing of a ceph or the anti-capitalist drivel....

i guess globalization is the imaginary boogie man for todays youth....

WK,

Peculiar, isn't it? Especially odd given that anti-globalization coalitions typically include ecologically minded-types, who ought to know better.

:roll:

Clem

I recall a very common cartoon from my junior high history books, dating back to the turn of the century. A brief search hasn't turned up an example, but it represents a large corporation as an octopus (I think Standard Oil.)

It strikes me that octos are chosen, especially for business cartoons, to emphasize the "tentacletip in every pie" nature of some corporations. Especially back in the olden days corporations could be involved in numerous venues and thumb their noses at fears of conflicts of interest or monopolistic practices. Companies continue this diversity today (though presumably without the more shady facets!) Witness Sara Lee, or Phillip Morris. And while GM is still (mainly) all about cars, consider that (as best I can count) they control 7 distinct automotive brands--10, if you count Opel (foreign-sales only,) Hummer (I kinda think of them as GMC,) and Oldsmobile (effectively dead.) Plus they have substantial relationships with various other corporations, such as owning 20% of Subaru and rebadging certain Toyotas or Suzukis as Geo (and now Chevy) models.

rusty

Rusty,

I'm not having any luck yet in finding the Standard Oil cartoon you referred to, but I did stumble across an official publication for the company whose cover is a delightful example of subversive graphic design. (http://www.roycroftbooks.org/images/standard_oil.jpg)

An explanation of how a stylized cephalopod, previously used to raise alarms about Standard Oil's monopolistic practices, came to appear on an offically sanctioned pamphlet can be read at the site maintained by Paul Jackson for the publisher, Roycroft Books. (http://www.roycroftbooks.org/standard_oil_ephemera.htm)

Al Hayat Al-Jadida, official newspaper of the Palestinian Authority, published an illustration on July 24, 2003, depiciting an American octopus dismembering Saddam Hussein; the illustration was made as a response to the deaths of Hussein's two sons in an American raid on their safehouse.
It's too gruesome an image for open airing in this forum, but can be viewed here. (http://www.pmw.org.il/new/images/octopus.jpg)

Clem

this my just be me with my personal biases, but i really dont see anything wrong with that.... :|

this my just be me with my personal biases, but i really dont see anything wrong with that.... :|

WK,

I don't find it particularly offensive, either: the American octopus is too comically grotesque to take umbrage at. But, it's probably best to not post images of bloody dismemberment directly.

Are there any Arabic-literate TONMO'ers who could translate the words written on Saddam's arms? I'd guess that they were the names Uday and Qusay.

The preponderance of anti-semitic, anti-Israeli octopus figures in some Arab political cartoons makes me wonder if the animal isn't held in especially low regard in the region. Consumption of cephs is proscribed by strict Kosher law. Are those restrictions shared in the dietary custom of Islam?

:?:

Clem

something that used to influence a person's criteria has now gotten mixed up with cephelopod's, weird that global matter's are invloved. :shock:

something that used to influence a person's criteria has now gotten mixed up with cephelopod's, weird that global matter's are invloved. :shock:

O.,

I agree, it is quite weird. The Arab political illustrations depicting an "Israeli Octopus" snatching territory paved the way for the Saddam image: applying ceph imagery to the United States draws upon that visual memory, strengthening the Arab readership's association of the United States with Israel, in a region where it is widely assumed that American and Israeli geo-political interests are tightly interlaced.

An image-maker searching for an animal to use as a stand-in for a community or polity of aggressive, expansionist repute really can't ask for more than an octopus provides. Flowing and plastic, its outlines can be stretched to envelop territories large or far-flung; the lack of a "face" makes for a blank canvas on which to project any desired visage; because octopus are shy and dexterous, they can represent any group or state that outsiders consider sneaky and conspiratorial.

I think the opaque nature of cephalopods to most people is key, here: poorly understood, they can represent any entity that defies the comprehension of those who find it threatening. Between Arab and Israeli, Communist and Capitalist, Fascist and Democrat is a fundamental chasm, a critical lack of engagement and understanding. The use of an octopus to arouse fear of "The Other" amounts to a tacit admission of moral and intellectual failure: "We don't understand you, and we don't to."

:|

Clem

oh dear, that is very sad, how could the Arabic use a ceph for a image like that, they are trying very hard to urge the U.S. to reply with something of their own. It's very weird, ceph's interfering in Global matter's hehe.Propaganda alway's revolved around war, during vietnam and so forth they used to propanganda to make U.S. citizen's join the miltary, now they have incorporated it with a subtle animal portraying war and contreversional issues. :|

oh dear, that is very sad, how could the Arabic use a ceph for a image like that, they are trying very hard to urge the U.S. to reply with something of their own.

O.,

Some of my fellow Americans don't need much provoking, I'm afraid. The "smoke 'em out, get 'em running" language used by some of our elected officials to describe the methodology of anti-terrorist operations likens the opponent to animals (prairie dogs?) that must be flushed from their burrows out into the open. The urge to de-humanize is not specific to any one region or conflict, I'm afraid.

In a softer key, here are a couple of corporate cephs snatching telecommunications satellites and playing soccer. (http://www.subvertise.org/img_med/275.jpg)

:roll:

Clem

I did not know that propaganda was involved with ceph's to this extent.
It's still strange that they are using a octopus to portray war and etc., because in very few occasion's have I seen a very confrontational octo, most of the time they are peaceful really, not like if they are looking for war and domination, since they are using the octo as propaganda for war etc. that might mean that those people really are frightened to got to war, I mean everyone know's that marine pet's only think about one thing...ESCAPING BECUASE THEY ARE SCARED TO DEATH, It's even on that movie nemo or whatever it's called.You understand what i'm trying to suggest. :)

The preponderance of anti-semitic, anti-Israeli octopus figures in some Arab political cartoons makes me wonder if the animal isn't held in especially low regard in the region. Consumption of cephs is proscribed by strict Kosher law. Are those restrictions shared in the dietary custom of Islam?

Interesting point, Clem. As far as I know, invertebrate seafood is permissible according to the Islamic laws of Halal (unlike the Jewish laws of Kashruth). I know from restaurant experiences that Indian Muslims do eat shrimp curry.

However, just because a food is not forbidden -- in either Islam or Judaism -- doesn't mean it's considered good eating. For example, my husband once asked an Orthodox Jewish friend why Kosher restaurants here didn't serve goat meat (since goats are cloven-hooved and non-porcine). His friend replied that goat meat is indeed Kosher, but "We just don't like the stuff." (That was of course an American Ashkenazic Jew, and his expressed preferences may not apply in other Jewish cultures, e.g. Middle Eastern / Sephardic.)

Therefore, perhaps certain Muslim cultures just don't like the idea of eating Cephs -- the "yecch!" factor. Anyway, unless s/he has seen HANNIBAL (or read Hodgson's classic HOUSE ON THE BORDERLAND), the average non-cephalofan probably finds an Octo a lot scarier than a pig.... :)

Tan Ninja

Taningia,

The fact that squid and octopus "ink" surely doesn't do them any favors when their cleanliness is being considered. Mesonychoteuthis would surely qualify as a filthy animal: it's mantle cavity lining is black and the animal appears to defecate directly onto its own gills.

Here's an over-wrought British illustration depicting the parliamentary system as a three-headed ceph. (This drawing also demonstrates how handy cephs can be when an artist must incorporate numerous subects in a single figure: just apply different labels to all the arms.) A bit too much going on in this one, I think, and the heads bear a slightly-more-than-passing resemblance to the residents of Springfield.

http://www.camrecon.demon.co.uk/octo.jpg

Taningia,

.... Mesonychoteuthis would surely qualify as a filthy animal: it's mantle cavity lining is black and the animal appears to defecate directly onto its own gills.


Eeeeeuuuuw! :yuck: Well, that would certainly tear it for me (though I imagine the meat would be as tough as boot leather anyway).

Along the same lines (and those of Kashruth, etc.), visual perception -- and upbringing -- definitely play a large part in dietary preferences. Case in point: I was brought up in a very ethnic, but not very religious, Jewish family. I attended once-a-week Hebrew School, but we only went to synagogue on the High Holy Days. We were not Sabbath observers, and didn't keep a Kosher home (though we did fast on Yom Kippur). As such, I was used to having meat with dairy and eating bacon at home, and when we went to Chinese restaurants we often had shrimp or pork. Lobster was an expensive delicacy, as it is now, but when we could afford the dish we considered it a real treat.

Anyway, when I was 17 I was dating an Orthodox Jewish boy (he would nowadays be considered modern Orthodox, as opposed to ultra-Orthodox or Chassidic). Of course, we always went out either on Sundays or on Saturday nights after dark, and we only ate at Kosher restaurants. Once when we were discussing food and religion (two of my all-time favorite subjects :) ), he said to me, "I guess I can see the appeal of eating pork -- I have to admit it looks delicious and smells wonderful. But why the heck would anyone want to eat a lobster? I mean, the things look like big cockroaches -- ugh!"

That made me ponder -- I have to admit that if I were raised to regard lobster as a no-no, it would look positively gross to me and I'd have no incentive to try it (though, like that Orthodox boy, I'd still be sorely tempted by bacon). Even though I didn't observe Kashruth, I had no incentive to try Calamari until, as an adult, a more sophisticated friend persuaded me to have some. Why? Objectively speaking, lobster doesn't look any less icky, yet I always loved the stuff. I think the difference was that Ceph-eating was never part of my upbringing. If I'd been Italian, Greek, Hispanic, or East Asian, a Squid dinner would have been no big deal for me. De gustibus non disputandum est -- diff'r'nt strokes for diff'r'nt folks.


.... the heads bear a slightly-more-than-passing resemblance to the residents of Springfield.


:roflmao: ....specifically, after Kang and Kodos had taken over their bodies.

BTW, when I used the quote mechanism on the board, I discovered the wonderful secret of how to incorporate an image in one's post! So, thanks for inadvertently opening up this new TONMO mystery to me. (Now I just need Tony to tell me the legal niceties of incorporating an image from another site that might be copyrighted!)

Tao Ninja DNA :yinyang:

But why the heck would anyone want to eat a lobster? I mean, the things look like big cockroaches -- ugh!"

This is so true... even if I didn't avoid them on conservation grounds (reaching minimum market size only after 5-7 years, reaching ages of 100+ if left alone, females being scrubbed of their eggs because berried females can't be sold, etc) I'm afraid I know just a little too much about what they eat (think marine dung beetles) to ever want to put one near my mouth.

Plus, they're cute.

Plus, they're cute.

Yes, and that makes them all the more tasty.

Full Disclosure: Clem is living on Cape Cod, where many earn their living by trapping and selling lobsters. This has been an especially difficult year for lobstering, with diminished stocks, steep prices and widespread poaching contributing to a generally gloomy outlook. Clem neither supports nor refutes the notion that lobsters are the marine equivalent of dung-beetles.

:roll:

Plus, they're cute.

Yes, and that makes them all the more tasty.

Full Disclosure: Clem is living on Cape Cod, where many earn their living by trapping and selling lobsters. This has been an especially difficult year for lobstering, with diminished stocks, steep prices and widespread poaching contributing to a generally gloomy outlook. Clem neither supports nor refutes the notion that lobsters are the marine equivalent of dung-beetles.


I'm on the fence about this -- I still don't think lobsters are cute, but they definitely look "cthuul" :cthulhu:. Being financially challenged all my life, I rarely eat lobster more than once or twice a year, so hopefully I am not significantly contributing to the depletion of the species. And I wouldn't eat a very large lobster because I know that would indicate it had lived a long time, and therefore was a "grand old man (or woman)" who had earned survivor's rights to a peaceful retirement. (Yes, this sounds very subjective, but I think people who are neither vegetarians nor observers of religious dietary laws, tend to create their own rules about what to eat anyway.)

With all my medically-prescribed dietary restrictions -- low fat, low cholesterol, low calorie, low alcohol, high fiber -- it's refreshing to take a break every few months and permit myself a lobster dinner with a glass of White Sangría (or a sirloin steak with an extra-spicy Bloody Mary :) ).

Hey, is this chat time? Let's see if I can get a connection....

Me

This has been an especially difficult year for lobstering, with diminished stocks, steep prices and widespread poaching contributing to a generally gloomy outlook.

Mmmm... yep... ringing any alarm bells? :alarm:

ummm... having trouble keeping up with the story line, is this the climax of the story, where's the rising action??? 8)
clem, ying-yang my brother.. :yinyang:

ummm... having trouble keeping up with the story line, is this the climax of the story, where's the rising action???

O.,

A small topical digression stalled over the thread, I'm afraid. It's my fault, I never should have mentioned food.

I'm trying to find one of the more famous octopus in propaganda, a WWII poster depicting Imperial Japan as an enormous cephalopod taking in Southeast Asia and reaching for Australia. Sound familiar?

:?:

Clem

'fraid not Clem, but it sure sounds interesting. Should you find it then a copy online (copyright?) would be interesting.

Food ... now there's a thought. Off to the golden arches.

'fraid not Clem, but it sure sounds interesting. Should you find it then a copy online (copyright?) would be interesting.

Food ... now there's a thought. Off to the golden arches.

Excellent idea, mate, and while you're there please have a Kiwi Burger for me. (We can't get them here, you know.... :cry: )

ummm... having trouble keeping up with the story line, is this the climax of the story....


Nah, that was just the entrée -- the climax is dessert, for which you have a choice of chocolate mousse, mango sorbet, or tiramisú. Kindly inform your waiter, Stephen, of your selection, and don't forget to leave him a generous tip -- he's saving up for a Neil Diamond t-shirt.

:D

:mrgreen: Tanks Tani. Tintentontoontinfisches day will come.

I'm trying to find one of the more famous octopus in propaganda, a WWII poster depicting Imperial Japan as an enormous cephalopod taking in Southeast Asia and reaching for Australia. Sound familiar?

:?:

Clem
Clem, I recall seeing a poster similar to the one you describe but i'm no sure, you could give the link to the pic, that won't violate any copyright issues...Will it?

take a look at this, clearly not propanga but it might influence a person's criteria somewhat and lead to the conclusion that octo's are evil lol.
http://members.aol.com/jeffsines/doc/48.jpg
I seriouslly took the time to read this article, was interesting, might be a bit boring but since when is the octopus satan????
clearly to christian's their share a similarity, weird.
here's the link:
http://www.tldm.org/Bayside/Messages/bm760624.htm

O.,

Yikes. That "Feathered Octopus" illustration is really something; the old pulp fiction magazines had some terrific illustrators. As for the Satanic octopus, well, some octopus are red, and their arms have occasionally been described as "horns" in pre-modern texts. Fishermen in the Sea of Cortez call Dosidicus gigas, the Humboldt squid, "The Red Devil," and cephs have long been lumped together under the "devilfish" name (along with large rays).

Clem

I seriouslly took the time to read this article, was interesting, might be a bit boring but since when is the octopus satan????
clearly to christian's their share a similarity, weird.

Not so, o.v. First of all, the language in the article comparing the Octo to an evil force was purely metaphorical. It simply referred to the multiplicity and flexibility of arms (I've heard the metaphor also used to describe political movements and business monopolies). Secondly, I have a netpal who is a hard-line Traditionalist Catholic, and while we may disagree on how Archis got here (creation ex nihilo vs. creation via evolution), we both think they are some of God's most beautiful, extraordinary, and majestic creations.

:rainbow:
Peace and blessings,
Tani

I've heard the metaphor also used to describe political movements and business monopolies.
very true, I've seen it happen also, clem has seen it too often I suppose, he brought up this article about some of it, they're is alway's two debating sides to everything, I concur that those who don't personally know ceph's should keep their atistic point of view's to themselves, other's might disagree of course, It does bother me to see octo's portrayed as something evil or harmful, this, which is entirely false.I've been handling octo's for about 10+ year's, I don't understand how those who have never tryed to learn about ceph's infer that they are evil or whatever, clem what's your thought's on this?
see ya guy's, peace! :)

.... I concur that those who don't personally know ceph's should keep their atistic point of view's to themselves, other's might disagree of course, It does bother me to see octo's portrayed as something evil or harmful, this, which is entirely false.I've been handling octo's for about 10+ year's, I don't understand how those who have never tryed to learn about ceph's infer that they are evil or whatever, clem what's your thought's on this?
see ya guy's, peace! :)

Hi again o.v. A couple of thoughts re this:

- Unfortunately, the Octopus is not the only critter to be tarred with the brush of negative metaphor. Look how common it is (in English, at least) to refer to a person one doesn't like as a "weasel", "snake", "rat", "worm", etc. None of these animals are evil in themselves, though we perceive some of their characteristics as unpleasant from a human point of view.

- Not everyone who enjoys scary images of Cephs necessarily hates them! The most close-to-home example here is the number of Cephalofans (myself included) who are also Lovecraftians. While HPL himself had a phobic aversion to all sea creatures, one of the qualities that hooks readers on his stories is the vividly terrifying portrayal of supernatural Cephs, in particular the tentacled god-monster Cthulhu :cthulhu: . Look at many of the less-technical TONMO threads, and you will find references to Lovecraft and the Cthulhu Mythos all over the place. In the world of Cephalofandom, Cthulhu and Oswald are equally welcome. :)

Blessings,
The Tanster

Well said Tani.

Thanks Tentacular! :) And BTW, where did you get that great avatar? I never heard of "Squid Girl" comics until I saw one being offered on eBay about a year ago, and I never saw another one since. I assume there were only a couple of issues released? Good stuff!

Dux vobiscum,
Tani

And BTW, where did you get that great avatar?
:oops: I blush to admit that I got it doin the old google image search. Does that make me very, very bad? When I first found Tonmo I thought to myself... I need something tres funky for this... so I spent an hour or so of valuable office time :twisted: searching through images till I found this one. I have not read the comics, but obviously I'd love to.
Oh and of course I look EXACTLY like that, right down to the bikini, thigh high boots and whip. :jester: Lucky I wont be making Tonmocon or my shallow facade would be shattered.
Rachel

O. & Taningia,

Well, I've stumbled onto another piece of this puzzle. Turns out, the process of sustaining the octopus' vile reputation was helped along by Adolf Hitler himself, in the pages of Mein Kampf: "If our people and our state become the victims of bloodthirsty and money-thirsty Jewish tyrants, the whole world will be enmeshed in the tentacles of this octopus." I'd been aware of Nazi propaganda illustrations depicting "International Jewry" as an octopus, but I was surprised to find that the association had been made by Hitler himself, in his ideology's founding document. Surprised, and struck by the suggestive proximity of the word "bloodthirsty" to his cephalopod metaphor.

Vampirism and cephalopods have a peculiar relationship in the popular imagination. In "The Toilers of the Sea," Victor Hugo endowed his "devilfish" (an octopus that attacks the hero Gillatt in a watery grotto) with vampiric attributes, explaining that octopus ingest prey by first liquefying them. Illustrations accompanying Hugo's text commonly show the devilfish's arms leaving bloody welts where the suckers had fastened onto Gillatt. It's not hard to imagine an ignorant man assuming that the suckers on a cephalopod's arm might be feeding structures of some sort, akin to the mouth-parts of leeches and lampreys. Even those schooled in biology and zoology might make the momentary visual association between the superficially related structures of an octopus sucker and a leech's mouth. Carl Chun owns the dubious distinction of having established a formal connection between cephalopods and vampires: in 1903, he first described Vampyroteuthis infernalis, the "Vampire-squid from Hell."

If Hitler read Hugo's novel, he might have appreciated the metaphoical possibilities of the vampiric devilfish. Where Gillatt stood for the particular working-class associated with the sea, and the devilfish for the system that exploited them, Hitler might have imagined the hard-working German volk parasitized by conspiratorial Jews. For Hitler, a man obsessed with the pseudo-science of racialism and eugenics, the notion of a parasitic appendage would have carried a potent psychic charge. Multiplied eight-fold, it provided him with a potent image. That it was abysmally wrong made it no less effective: the visual association made between sucker and mouth, between octopus and vampire, occurred faster than judgment and did not need to be rationally sustained. It was one of numerous bestial metaphors in the anti-semitic bag of tricks, and Hitler had an audience willing to suspend its critical faculties.

Below is the frontspiece to an 1883 edition of "The Toilers of the Sea."

http://expositions.bnf.fr/hugo/images/3/418.jpg

Mon dieu.

:goofysca:

Clem

....and more Gallic octo-phobia, here used to make Free-Masonry seem yet more threatening:

http://www.fm-europe.org/delta/images/anti/dictateur/pieuvre.jpg

:goofysca:

It seems the misunderstood octopus continues to represent evil in modern cyberspace...

Fighting the Octopus (http://www.infoshop.org/octo/thebigone.html)

:?

Hi again o.v. A couple of thoughts re this:

- Unfortunately, the Octopus is not the only critter to be tarred with the brush of negative metaphor. Look how common it is (in English, at least) to refer to a person one doesn't like as a "weasel", "snake", "rat", "worm", etc. None of these animals are evil in themselves, though we perceive some of their characteristics as unpleasant from a human point of view.

- Not everyone who enjoys scary images of Cephs necessarily hates them! The most close-to-home example here is the number of Cephalofans (myself included) who are also Lovecraftians. While HPL himself had a phobic aversion to all sea creatures, one of the qualities that hooks readers on his stories is the vividly terrifying portrayal of supernatural Cephs, in particular the tentacled god-monster Cthulhu :cthulhu: . Look at many of the less-technical TONMO threads, and you will find references to Lovecraft and the Cthulhu Mythos all over the place. In the world of Cephalofandom, Cthulhu and Oswald are equally welcome. :)

Blessings,
The Tanster

hello again :) , I know exactly what your leading to, It's not like if Im targeting those who made these pic's because I understand why they did it, as a youngster (still am, hehe) I though the same way too, I thought octo's were evil too, no way in hell were they docile right, hehe, it wasn't until I was in 8th grade that I learned to fully appreciate ceph's, If someone were to say a octo were a monster around me, you would surely recieve a socking from me lol (j/k but you get the point), you should know how many heated discussion's I had with people who had seen those prehistoric B&W movies with a huge squid attacking the fisherman, in the end they learned nothing just that I was some crazy fanatic of octo's trying to tell my side of the story lol, to sum it up I've had my fair share of monster ceph's argument's lol, I know were you're coming from, I totally understand what you're saying lol, no point in saying otherwise, will do some research on Cthulhu as I don't much about this, it's not my field of study or interest I suppose.

clem, adolp hitler's book eh, I suppose they're might be something about ceph's being those monster's everyone grew up to know, hehe, But isn't it a book mainly about german triump and german nationalism, where do killer octo's come in? :P
see ya later clem, peace. :)

O.V, the use of the imagery of the octopus by the Nazi state was inevitably racist and negative in tone. Unfortunately, Hitler alluded to the octopus more than once in Mein Kampf. In addition to the quote Clem has posted above in chapter 3 lies the following quotation in reference to his perceived view of European Jews:

"While one of these scum is attacking his beloved fellow men in the most contemptible fashion, the octopus covers himself with a veritable cloud of respectability and unctuous phrases, prates about ' journalistic duty ' and suchlike lies, and even goes so far as to shoot off his mouth at committee meetings and congresses- that is, occasions where these pests are present in large numbers -about a very special variety of 'honor,' to wit, the journalistic variety, which the assembled rabble gravely and mutually confirm."

There are a number of images that were produced under the auspices of Josef Goebbels' propaganda machine that depict international Jewry as some form of bloodthirsty octopus. Taste dictates not posting them here, no matter how relevent. Indeed, one issue of Julius Streicher's ranting Der Sturmer magazine depicted an octopus bearing a Star of David being stabbed with spears labelled 'truth' and 'enlightenment'.

On a (slightly) lighter note, here is another good example of the symbolism of the octopus this time taken from Life magazine from January 1953. The octopus/fire pump represents the cold war fears of arms and munitions being transported across Europe into Eastern Germany and thus feeding the then perceived Communist menace.

(BTW, Clem - fantastic research on this thread. Where do you find these images? It's all fascinating.)

...will do some research on Cthulhu as I don't much about this, it's not my field of study or interest I suppose.
O.,

Cthulhu is a recurring character in the fiction of H. P. Lovecraft. There are some at TONMO who actively worship Cthulhu and take pride in being his minions. Steer clear of them.

Where do you find these images?
Phil,

Google image search responds well to inputting words for cephalopods in various languages. "Pieuvre" (octopus) yielded the anti-masonic poster, while "pieuvre, Hugo" led me to a trove of illustrations associated with "Les Trevailleurs de la Mer." Still, there's a lot of brute-force slogging involved...and I still can't find that great WWII poster depicting an Imperial Japanese octopus reaching for Australia.

Thanks for that Antwerp octopus. I'd posted a link to a larger version at the top of the thread, but I'll take its re-appearance as an opportunity to ask a question: why Antwerp? Was it considered a "weak sister" by more ardent anti-communists?

Clem

Cthulhu is a recurring character in the fiction of H. P. Lovecraft. There are some at TONMO who actively worship Cthulhu and take pride in being his minions. Steer clear of them.
will do clem, don't want to get in anyone's bad side, anyway's I got you to back me up right. 8)

will do clem, don't want to get in anyone's bad side, anyway's I got you to back me up right. 8)
O.,

iä! iä! Chtulhu--

I mean, yes, of course, I'll back you up.

Clem

This is becoming one of my favorite threads, and by now, with all his research Clem could probably teach the subject as a college course (sponsored jointly by the departments of Journalism and Marine Biology).

More random thoughts:

- O., I think Clem's pulling a few of your legs. Most of us who pose as Cthulhu-worshipers on this message board are doing just that: posing, similarly to Trekkers who speak Klingon, or STAR WARS enthusiasts who go around saying "May the Force be with you." We're Lovecraft enthusiasts, and we're weird, but not that weird! There are, of course, exceptions. I used to belong to a Lovecraftian amateur press association called the Esoteric Order of Dagon, and I wondered why some people would edge away from me when I said that. Turns out there was another group called the Esoteric Order of Dagon, comprised of bona fide Cthulhu-worshipers who took the entire Mythos seriously! What makes this even funnier, is that Lovecraft himself was an atheistic materialist, who didn't believe in the supernatural, or in anything unprovable by observation or research. So go to your local library, take out a collection of H.P. Lovecraft stories, and prepare for some very classy chills (I recommend starting with THE SHADOW OVER INNSMOUTH, THE CALL OF CTHULHU, or a non-Mythos story entitled THE OUTSIDER).

- The TOILERS OF THE SEA pic is fantastic (though wildly inaccurate, of course), and would make a great wall poster!

- As upset as I am about Hitler's defamation of Octopuses, for some reason I'm just a teensy-weensy bit madder about his repulsive characterization of Jews. :x For some reason.

- Nevertheless, the Holocaust -- like slavery -- is an inescapable part of the world's history, horrific though it may be, and becoming informed about it is one safeguard against repeating the past (not next weekend, but next century). So, Clem and everyone, thank you for presenting these pieces of history, not only for the sake of Cephiana but as a cautionary note to the younger people who may be reading this thread.

- Hey Tentacular, don't be ashamed of your work as a teuthsome rubber-clad dominatrix! As a matter of fact, I am a tall voluptuous swordswoman who wears a metal bra and tunic, breathes fire, mixes it up with gods, and throws a mean chakram. Unfortunately, I can't make it to TONMOcon 'cause there's this short blonde chick who follows me around all the time, and I can't afford two round-trip chariot tickets.

Tani Warriorteuthis

umm... I guess I'll start with The outsider, the title sound's catchy, hehe.
has anyone read the art of deception?

umm... I guess I'll start with The outsider, the title sound's catchy, hehe.
has anyone read the art of deception?

THE OUTSIDER is a good choice. It's short, and even though it isn't a Mythos tale, it will give you a taste of HPL's unique style, which is a "love it or hate it" sort of thing.

When you read the story, bear in mind that Lovecraft himself had a sad childhood, with an unbalanced mother who dressed him as a girl, refused to hug or kiss him, and was constantly telling him things like "You are hideous." Many might disagree with me, but I believe THE OUTSIDER comes closer than any of his other stories to expressing the alienation he felt as a little boy. This adds a distinct touch of poignancy to its horror.

Let us know what you think of it.

Nope, haven't read THE ART OF DECEPTION. Intriguing title, though -- why am I thinking that whenever and wherever it was written, the author must've been a politician :mrgreen:

The Tanster

Nope, haven't read THE ART OF DECEPTION. Intriguing title, though -- why am I thinking that whenever and wherever it was written, the author must've been a politician :mrgreen:

nope try again, think along the lines of someone called kevin mitnick.

The octopus as an oppressive micro-manager:

http://www.lava.net/~pritchet/octopus.htm

Tony,

Eek, that's a good (and bad) one. It seems to be a comparative rarity, using an octopus to depict an individual. Perhaps the artist sat through one too many viewings of "The Little Mermaid." Ms. Lindsey must have been a quite capable operator; the octopus image suggests a measure of grudging respect.

:|

Clem

The worst thing about being offline for 2 days out of 7 is the Tonmo catchup on Monday morning!

Hey Tentacular, don't be ashamed of your work as a teuthsome rubber-clad dominatrix! As a matter of fact, I am a tall voluptuous swordswoman who wears a metal bra and tunic, breathes fire, mixes it up with gods, and throws a mean chakram.
You go girl!!! :notworth:

Cthulhu is a recurring character in the fiction of H. P. Lovecraft. There are some at TONMO who actively worship Cthulhu and take pride in being his minions. Steer clear of them.
Some of us actively worship Cthulhu with dice and character sheets. :wink: Ooops... 1d20 san loss. :bugout:

"My father used to tell me I had an octopus-complex... Analogies fail, but I am capable of behaving like an eight-armed cephalopod while protesting the innocence of my two arms on the table". JW

Sounds like this frat guy I dated a couple of times....

:lol:

Two more French-language evocations of monopolistic excess, featuring our friend le pieuvre.

http://mdh.limoges.free.fr/support/fsg2002/manif92.JPG

http://macalecole.free.fr/TALC/Images/1_m_ms_pieuvre.jpg

:|

Clem

Oh my god. A Bill Gates/octopus hybrid. Now that is truly horrifying.

Oh my god. A Bill Gates/octopus hybrid. Now that is truly horrifying.
oh god... :|

"The Arms of the Octopus" appeared as an advertisement in The Journal of Syphilis(!), paid for by Squibb Brothers, in 1943. Since the publication's readership scarcely needed such a graphic depiction of the disease's vectors, it might have been used in a much larger campaign, directed at a very large population: American servicemen fighting and working abroad. One can scarcely argue with the goal of STD prevention, yet the illustration remains a truly bizarre piece of public-health propaganda. If the illustrated vignettes were to be arranged into a coherent narrative, it might go something like this:

Once upon a time, a strapping American Officer met and fell in love with a wholesome young American (blonde) girl. They had moony-eyed conversations in cafes, danced in the evenings and afternoons were spent sitting chastely on the girl's parents' couch.

The Officer went overseas and spent a night with a foreign (dark-haired) woman of ill-repute.

He contracted syphilis and went to jail.

THE END

Clem

i found two cartoons in my book Dr Seuss Goes to War, comprised of his political cartoons from PM....

one has a octo (unfortunately of the goose stepping sort)

the other nautil-ish

quite disappointing that the man who brought us the sneetches casts cephs in such a disreputable manner, but no ones perfect (his cartoons dealing with the japanese make this clear enough)

my apologies for the less than perfect scans, i dont want to hurt the book's spine

WK,

Those are truly excellent drawings. (Thanks for risking the book's binding to post them.) Given Hitler's propensity to use octopus metaphors when referring to Jews, Seuss (Geisel) must have taken some delight in turning the weapon back on the Nazis.

The nautiloid character "V. Gayda" shown writing for Mussolini is one Virginio Gayda, editor of Il Giornale d'Italia, one of fascist Italy's house organs. Gayda is also the author of this memorable quote:

"Culture is necessary, but it must be alive and not too much of it."

:roll:

Clem

"Culture is necessary, but it must be alive and not too much of it."


have we found a slogan for this forum? :roll:

i tend to view gayda as a sort of goebbels lite in a watered-down verison of the axis....

ill keep my eyes open to see if i missed any in the book, and might just thumb through geisel's other works for any octos...

Here is a great WW2 propaganda poster called 'Victory through Airpower' depicting an American eagle swooping on the Japanese octopus. Apparantly issued by Disney in 1943, it is most un-Disney like.

Avast Phil,

Thank you so much for posting that image. Seems Disney wasn't constrained by notions of culturally specific animals, as Uncle Walt supplied octopus mascots for American forces, as well.

Note that the Imperial Japanese octopus is green; the more corrosive wartime propaganda and cartoon images of the Japanese people often depicted them as yellow or green-skinned. (However, the octopus Disney produced for the crew of a US Navy submarine (http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=734) was also green.) Note too the octopus' arm stretched out to Alaska's Aleutian island chain. That seldom-remembered theater of war saw the Japanese occupy several islands in June of 1942: Attu, later the scene of vicious fighting between the entrenched invaders and returning American forces (May, 1943), and Kiska, which was evacuated by the Japanese in advance of American efforts to reclaim it (in August of 1943).

But, what are those islands in the octo's arms? Oahu? Midway? Are those the flags of the Rising Sun on them? Midway was saved from the Imperial Japanese Navy on 4 June, 1942, (just days before Kikska and Attu were successfully attacked) and Oahu, though it did receive the attention of a few long-range IJN flying-boats, was never the target of a large-scale attack after 7 December, 1941. This Lockheed poster, then, shows the moment the tide turned in the Pacific: June 1942, and the strategic reversal of Japanese expansion, which was effected largely by a few American Navy dive-bombers at the Battle of Midway. Sadly, the lone eagle couldn't be everywhere, and the two Aleutian islands were taken.

By a huge green octopus.

Clem

my thoughts are that itd be hawaii and phillipines with the flags, signifying successful japanese attacks against the US.... and the aleutians were a feint for midway...

of course i could just be slinging nonsense

my thoughts are that itd be hawaii and phillipines with the flags, signifying successful japanese attacks against the US.... and the aleutians were a feint for midway...

of course i could just be slinging nonsense
Hello WK,

No nonsense, but I don't think the Phillipines are in the picture. The two territories within the octo's grasp are isolated, in the middle of the Pacific; if the Disney artist(s) had meant the viewer to think Phillipines, they'd most likely have included nearby China and Formosa (now Taiwan) in the picture as reference points.

You're absolutely right about Japan's Aleutian offensive being a feint. Admiral Yamamoto, chief architect of the Pearl Harbor strike, wanted to draw the remnants of America's aircrfat carrier force into a decisive fight, and reasoned that the US Navy's flattops would be divided in defense of Midway and the Aleutians and overwhelmed by the IJN's numerical superiority. Yamamoto also considered the Aleutians to have been a possible forward staging area for the Doolittle raid on Tokyo; only after the war did the Japanese learn that Doollittle's raiders had flown their normally land-based B-25's from the deck of the U.S.S. Hornet. In the event, the American carriers stayed put and prevailed at Midway, while the Japanese octopus took posession of two of the most inhospitable islands in the Northern hemisphere. The catastrophic defeat at Midway was kept under wraps, and the Aleutian gambit was spun by Japanese propagandists as a triumph.

:|

Clem

No nonsense, but I don't think the Phillipines are in the picture. The two territories within the octo's grasp are isolated, in the middle of the Pacific; if the Disney artist(s) had meant the viewer to think Phillipines, they'd most likely have included nearby China and Formosa (now Taiwan) in the picture as reference points.


we of course must keep in mind that this is propaganda, not a geography lesson... its meant to stir the feelings not apease the mind.... those flags are meant to motivate the lockheed workers to keep them cranking out the planes to beat the enemy.... instead of 'remember the alamo" i think the disney artist is going for "remember pearl harbor and the bataan death march".... but then again we're speaking about a company that has a rodent dancing with cleaning implements, so i could be wrong....

The drawing below appeared in The American Issue, a newspaper produced under the auspices of the American Anti-Saloon League. The League, a driving force behind efforts to prohibit the sale of alcohol in the United States, published a number of papers in the years between 1893 and 1933, all of them dedicated to an evangelic approach to temperance. "The Liquor Octopus" appeared in The American Issue on January 4th, 1919.

:wine:

Clem

I'm not sure if it has come up but 'The Octopus' is a wide ranging umbrella conspiracy theory developed by Danny Casolaro (and only discovered when he as allegedly "suicided"):

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/article/id901/pg1/

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/the_octopus.htm

http://www.constitution.org/col/octocaso.htm

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/casolaro/

http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/octopus.html

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/octopus.htm

Explanation of name:

http://www.rense.com/general/caso.htm

A book on it:

http://www.steamshovelpress.com/fromeditor24.html

whos most recent cover features a big octopus (of course):

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0922915393.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Thanks for bringing the Casolaro case up, Emperor. I once saw a lecture on that at a Fortean Times Unconvention and always intended mentioning it here, but could not remember enough about it to write anything meaningful.

Interesting paranoid stuff. Maybe he was onto something?

Phil: Yes I must try and make an UnCon one of these days.

Maybe he was onto something?

If nothing else he was a major influence on the current mega-conspiracies.

Emps

Spotted this in the Otago Daily Times on Saturday!

J

Spotted this in the Otago Daily Times on Saturday!
Jean,

Good cartoon there, if rather unrealistic. The President would have a very difficult time controlling an automatic weapon.

Ever wondered what an animated American octopus with hegemonic aspirations would look like? Click here (http://members.chello.at/irina.mangl/krake-www-mangl-at.gif) to find out.

:goofysca:

Clem

. The President would have a very difficult time controlling an automatic weapon.

Well he might shoot himself in the foot..............it'd make a change from them being in his mouth all the time :D (apologies to any Dubya supporters!)



. Ever wondered what an animated American octopus with hegemonic aspirations would look like? Click here (http://members.chello.at/irina.mangl/krake-www-mangl-at.gif) to find out.

:goofysca:

Clem

:goofysca: :shock: :bugout: :bonk:

J

Of interest in the last few paragraphs of this page:

http://www.aijac.org.au/updates/Nov-03/251103.html

Here's another, timely, and disturbing:

PA Daily Cartoons: 1. US Octopus is Dismembering Saddam (http://www.pmw.org.il/new/Latest%20bulletin.html#PAdaily)

:usa: !!!!!

:yuck:

Poor octi

J

Here's another, timely, and disturbing:

PA Daily Cartoons: 1. US Octopus is Dismembering Saddam (http://www.pmw.org.il/new/Latest%20bulletin.html#PAdaily)
TONMO,

Yeah, that's a rough one, and grossly unfair. We gave the man a haircut and shave, for Pete's sake.

The (annotated) illustration below appeared in an 1882 edition of The Wasp, a San Francisco newspaper founded in 1876 by the Korbel brothers, successful Bohemian immigrants who saw the value of diversifying their business interests to include print journals. Among the brothers’ established concerns were cigar-box manufacture and the production of wine and brandy; the latter business remains active under the Korbel name. Before selling The Wasp in 1881, the Korbels presided over a significant innovation in American newspapers: mass-produced color cartoons.

Tinted lithographs had been used to decorate the cigar boxes the Korbels produced, and they put their experience to use in The Wasp, commissioning G. Frederick Keller to illustrate the cartoons that appeared on the front cover, rear cover and centerfold of the paper. This layout was costly to produce and the paper lost money through a succession of different owners, but the drawings gave The Wasp its visual signature. Under the editorial direction of muckraking pioneer Ambrose Bierce, the paper routinely lobbed ordure at California’s most powerful men and institutions, with special attention given to the railroad monopoly controlled by the men known as The Big Four.

Keller’s illustration, “The Curse of California,” ran in The Wasp’s August 19th edition in 1882. It may not have been Keller’s inspiration to depict the Southern Pacific Railroad company as a monopolistic octopus, since the metaphor was also used in William Chambers Morrow’s 1882 novel, “Blood-Money.” Keller’s cartoon and Morrow’s novel shared a common inspiration, a bloody clash between farmers and representatives of the Pacific Railroad in the San Joaquin valley, at a place called Mussel Slough.

The Pacific Railroad was owned by Californian magnates known as The Big Four, these being Leland Stanford, President of the Central Pacific Railroad from 1863, and founder of Stanford University in 1884; Charles Crocker, President of the Southern Pacific Railroad and a member of the California State legislature from 1860; Mark Hopkins, and Collis Huntington. Control of the railways gave them de-facto control of the pace and direction of California’s economic development, since so many different concerns were allied to the transportation infrastructure. In “The Curse of California,” Stanford and Crocker’s visages appear within the octopus’s eyes.

Mussel Slough was a tributary of the Kings River whose surrounds had been settled by farmers; producing both agricultural crops and a small yield of shellfish, Mussel Slough was coveted by the Southern Pacific Railroad for its planned expansion into the San Joaquin Valley. Using their influence (and Crocker’s position) within the California State legislature, the owners of the Railroad arranged for land prices to be increased by over 1000%, far beyond the reach of the poor farmers who had settled the Slough, and on May 11, 1880 armed land-grabbers hired by the Railroad, accompanied by a U.S. Marshall, began the forcible repossession of homes and land. They were met by a group of armed farmers, and in the ensuing exchange of fire six men were killed.

Keller’s “Curse of California” is a prime, early example of how discrete elements of a narrative can be assigned to each of an octopus’s arms. The Wasp’s octopus has ten appendages, though one of the array has nothing to grasp. The arm clutching several head of livestock and their tender has the word “Freight” written on it, and is one of two arms to wear text; the other coils around a representation of San Francisco’s tony Nob Hill, home to the city’s economic and political elite, and is marked “Railroad Monopoly.” Rendered as a lonely burial plot, at the bottom of the page, is Mussel Slough.

Clem

Hey, it's got nostrils!! Where's George?

Very interesting, Clem, I enjoyed that foray into Californian history. Nicely written. :thumbsup:

And now... back to Moroteuthis.

:onycho: (almost)

Tintenfisch,

Thanks very much. I "found" that cartoon a month ago, but it took a while to research. There's more to that California story, and yet more octopus stuff to relate, but I need a little beer. Breather.

:beer:

Clem

I'm not sure if it has come up but 'The Octopus' is a wide ranging umbrella conspiracy theory developed by Danny Casolaro...
Emps,

Our friends at Fortean Times have posted an online article about Mr. Casolaro's Octopus conspiracy theory, including an odd tie-in with the Burning Man (http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1550) festival. Very odd, indeed. Click here (http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/172_octopus.shtml) to read the FT update.

Clem

Sorry, i think that's a bit too far from reality for me.... :|

Sorry, i think that's a bit too far from reality for me.... :|
"Cobras! Cobras!"

:goofysca:

The Swiss may cherish their neutrality in matters of international dispute, but if you try to take away their beloved municipal baths, you'll be sorry.

At the end of the eighties, Geneva's Bains des Paquis, established in 1872, were threatened with a drastic, character-altering overhaul. Patrons of the baths organized to prevent the teardown, gathered signatures on petitions and put up great posters, like the one below.

In September of 1988, the matter was put to a referendum, and the city's plan to modernize the baths went down to defeat. Instead, funds were allocated to restore and stabilize the existing structure. This victory warranted a party, but it was September, and a bit brisk to be playing splashy-splashy in Lake Geneva's waters, so the party was held the following May....

Clem: terrific find; great summary. Thanks for posting!

(Where does he find this stuff?)

TONMO,

Thanks much.

Now, where were we? Ah, yes: the Genevois were about to celebrate the defeat of the octopus (city government) threatening les Bains des Paquis.

Problem was, they had a big, dead, symbolic pieuvre in the pool.

So, they lounged on it, and dove from it, and generally made do.

And at least one guy ate it.

I love a happy ending. :mrgreen:

Fantastic images and commentary, Clem. Thanks! :D

Avast Phil,

Thanks a lot. Aren't those posters great? The linework reminds me of Hergé (Tintin) and a Dutch artist name of Joost Swarte. Haven't yet found the name of the Swiss artist who made them.

For a look at les Bains (and they are quite lovely), click here. (http://www.bains-des-paquis.ch/index.html)

:sink:

Le Clem

I was watching the history channel and saw a picture of a octopus cartoon, but cant find it on the web... it was following the collapse of the Louisiana lottery... what a shock, corruption down there :roll:

I was watching the history channel and saw a picture of a octopus cartoon, but cant find it on the web... it was following the collapse of the Louisiana lottery... what a shock, corruption down there :roll:

WK,

Thanks for the tip. No images, yet, but here's a link to a brief description of the lottery and why it was called an octopus.Click here, (http://lsm.crt.state.la.us/cabildo/cab11a.htm) then scroll down the page.

I'm off to troll the ether.

Clem

heres four i found on the web... dont have descriptions for all but the gist can be gleaned from them....i had another, but i couldnt blow it up enough to be able to read it....

last one....

Apologies for the Bookshop logo on this one, but the image was too appropriate for this forum to miss.

(1938) Henry C. Wolfe, The German Octopus


Published several months before the Munich capitulation, Wolfe’s book concerns itself exclusively with the Third Reich’s foreign adventures, in particular the Nazis’ drive through central Europe and the Balkans, ominously concluding with the question of “Czechoslovakia---Next Prey?”

heres four i found on the web... dont have descriptions for all but the gist can be gleaned from them....i had another, but i couldnt blow it up enough to be able to read it....
WK,

I'm knocked out by what you've found. Great stuff.

The Russian octo can be viewed in a larger, more detailled format if you click here. (http://www.bigredhair.com/boilerplate/soldier/bp.octopus.html) The English legend reads:

'Black Octopus' is a name newly given to Russia by a certain prominent Englishman. For the Black Octopus is so avaricious that he stretches out his eight arms in all directions, and seizes up every thing that comes within his reach. But as it sometimes happens he gets wounded seriously even by a small fish, owing to his too much .[i] Indeed, a Japanese proverb says: "Great avarice is like unselfishness." We Japanese need not to say much on the cause of the present war. Suffice it to say, that the further existence of the Black Octopus will depend entirely upon how he comes out of this war. The Japanese fleet has already practically annihilated Russia's naval power in the Orient. The Japanese army is about to win a signal victory over Russia in Corea & Manchuria. And when...............St Petersburg? Wait and see! The ugly Black Octopus! Hurrah! Hurrah! for Japan.

The handbill is dated 1904. On February 8, 1904, the Japanese Navy launched an attack againt the Russian fleet anchored at Port Arthur, with devastating results. The war was occasioned by Russia's rejection of Japan's territorial claims on the Asian mainland, including Manchuria and Corea, and the Russian annnexation of the Liaodong Peninsula. Japan and Russia fought a sprawling war, involving hundreds of thousands of troops and big fleets, culminating in the lopsided Battle of Tsushima on May 27, 1905. After that decisive naval victory, Japan (with diplomatic assistance from a sympathetic Teddy Roosevelt) negotiated a favorable peace. The defeat of the vastly larger, established power by upstart Japan - "a small fish" - came as a major shock to the West, and helped fix in the Japanese psyche a fatal overconfidence in the inevitability of its ascendancy.

Interesting that the legend is written in English. A not so-subtle warning to Britain, perhaps? Who's the "prominent Englishman?"

Below is the anti-Chinese cartoon you found, "What shall we do with our boys?". That header might be "The Wasp." If so, it's the same nineteenth-century San Francisco paper that ran the famous octopus cartoon condemning the excesses of the Pacific Railroad monopoly. If so, then the artist is probably G. Frederick Keller. (Click here (http://www.tonmo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=125&stc=1) to see an annotated version of Keller's "Curse of California" octopus cartoon.) Presumably, the loitering boys are out of work because Chinese immigrants have "taken" all the low-wage clothes manufacturing jobs.

I've no sure idea what the historical context for the subway illustration is. It's a beautiful work. Look at that little sliver of orange sunset backlighting the skyline.

:thumbsup:

Backing up a bit: I highly recommend James Bradley's Flyboys to anyone with an interest in the fraught and complicated history between Japan and the West. Before reading it, I'd no real sense of the scope of the Russo-Japan war. Most of the narrative deals with WWII, but Bradley illustrates the parallel courses of American and Japanese Manifest Destiny with great skill.

WK, thanks again for the great contributions.

Apologies for the Bookshop logo on this one, but the image was too appropriate for this forum to miss.
Phil,

Apologize for nothing, that's a great find. It perpetuates the odd tit-for-tat cycle of octopus-themed illustrations produced by both the Nazis and their opponents. Hitler vs. Heartfield, Jewish octopus vs. Nazi octopus, and so on. Do have any background information on Mr. Wolfe, the author of "The German Octopus?"

:thumbsup:

Clem

Clem, you are amazing, thanks so much for all the images and especially the relevant historical information. How much work did you put into that research? I'm impressed!

BTW, that "Subway Octopus" scared the living sh*t outta me! (Maybe 'cause I live in NYC and have to ride them things too bloody often....) I find it interesting that the face -- OMG, what a face! -- was like a distortion of the usually-benign Chinese dragon. Is this some sort of antiquated racial slur of political origin? I don't think there was the same sort of issue regarding Chinese workers in the construction of the subway, at least not here in NYC, but then again lots of cities have underground transit systems and the poster could refer to one of them.

Any further info about this?

Quite fascinated,
Tani

Any further info about this?
Taningia,

Nope. Aren't you getting the info? I was told you were getting the info.

Yours truly,

Clem

Nope. Aren't you getting the info? I was told you were getting the info.


Not about Subway Octo I ain't. And you said you ain't got none neither.


I've no idea what the historical context for the subway illustration is


So's you're obviously getting me confused with someone who was getting the info. But I didn't get no info. Not from you, not from nobody nohow. Anyone here got the info? Info needed here.

About Subway Octo, that is.

'Cause we ain't got no info about Subway Octo. Gol durn it.

Maw

if i had to guess about the Subway octo, i'd say the octo looked somewhat in the style of a chinese/asian dragon type thing.... what west coast cities have subways? i ask west coast because if you look at the far left arm, you can see something like "Hollt Cal Pull" whatever that means.... if not US, what other English speaking cities have subways? london of course, but what about Hong Kong or any other former ENglish colonies?

another one.... the BHP discussed is half of BHP Billiton, a company formed after the Aussie mining company BHP bought the British company Billiton... found it on eBay....


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3587328524

Check out this ad/propaganda article from a 50's magazine, asking for donations to help support... independent doctors... down with organized health services! :bonk:

The Medical Octopus (http://thetillery.bizland.com/medoct.htm)

How about this internet site for an extremely unsubtle depiction of the use of octopus imagery in conspiracy theory:

http://www.ctrl.org/graphicHome/CTRLhome.html

(Thanks Nancy!)