the pH in my tank is at 8.8 and nothing seems to be working. ive done two water changes, tried Proper pH 8.2 several times and also something similar but a different brand. it wont budge! none of the chem. stuff is expired, nor is the pH powder. ive checked it with 3 test kits. ahh!

I am also having this problem! I have a 120ish gallon system and my pH is about 6.6-6.8. I was told by the people we bought the system from to use "pH Down" but I'm wondering if there is a better way? (My Instant Ocean is measuring at a pH of about 6.6-6.8 so water change isnt going to help either...why is it so high???)

Also- I'm using deionized water to make the instant ocean if that makes a difference

make sure you use RO water and then use the seachem marine buffer... best stuff out there. get the raises and mantains...

What kinds of animals are in the tank and how are they doing?

Whatever you do, I would stop using anything to adjust the pH because they don't work in the long term. If you really have a pH problem, you need to find the cause and fix that.

O2 is often an issues with pH. Are your tanks closed or open?

Norge: I hope you don't mind me participating in this thread with my pH problem. If you do, let me know.
I have 7 Euprymna Scolopes squid (one is pretty small, the rest are adults) and the system is about 130 gallons. Does low O2 make the pH higher?

Not so much O2 but the minute amount of CO2 in the air. CO2 combines with water to form carbonic acid (this is why rainwater is naturally slightly acidic and why the great cathedrals are slowly melting). Adding a protein skimmer if you don't already have one will help gas exchange.

What do you have for plants in the tank? Plants consume CO2, so if you have a big hunk of chaeto you might consider removing it or switching it to a shorter photoperiod.

Dan

pH is still too high, there arent any plants, theres 1 damsel in it and 50lbs of live rock. i have a protien skimmer.. argh im going nuts. my teacher messed up the tank a while back by using baking soda (lowers pH in freshwater tanks) and someone suggested that it might have gotten into the live rock and is now leaching out. could that be the cause? if so, should i just get rid of all the rock and replace it? we did a 100% water change after the baking soda incident.

What is the pH of your mixed saltwater before you do a water change?

What test kit are you using?
Most pH problems aren't really problems but poor testing.

Also, the most important thing, are you experiencing any problems with your livestock that lead you to believe you have a water quality issue?

I've done a lot of reading on Reef Central and elsewhere concerning pH measurement. I guess we have no guarantee of getting accurate pH measurement unless we buy a true scientific instrument, which is quite expensife. I have two Pinpoint pH monitors that give different readings of the same water, despite just being calibrated and having new sensors.

Different brands of salt mixes are manufactured to come out with different pHs. I used Kent at one time, found the pH very low and variable. I've switched to Tropic Marin and found the pH comes out about right.

Calibration fluid for meters has to be new is also not always accurate.

Generally, the consensus is that pH meters are more accurate than test strips.

One good thing - if you aim for a pH of 8.2, you have some latitude - the pH can be a bit higher or lower and still be acceptable.

Thales is right - watch your livestock carefully - if its doing well, your pH is OK.

Nancy

the ph is 8.2 when i put it in for a water change. the only thing in the tank is liverock and the two tests im using are Aquarium Pharmaceuticals pH kit and Quick Dip test strips. it still isnt right...

I wouldn't trust either of those kits with a 10 foot tentacle. :smile:

If you are worried about your pH because of the numbers, I wouldn't worry. Beware of chasing numbers, its the path to leaving the hobby early both from frustration at not getting the right numbers, but also from the damage you do to your animals by trying to change the numbers.

Try this: get a cup of tank water. Test it. Then, bubble water through it with an airstone for 10 minutes. Test it again and see if there is a difference. Again though, with those test kits I wouldn't trust the readings at all. I would switch to Elos or Salifert.

ok, i'll try and find those tonight. i had two damsels in there just to see how they would do, i acclimated them properly and everything, and the next day one was dead and the other sickly. aghh. its gone down today though, around 8.3ish? im going by numbers because i want to get it right before i get the octopus. the octo the teacher got two months ago died after 3 days b/c of alkalinity (retard added baking soda).

There are about a million things that could have caused the fish to die - what has led you to believe that it was the pH?

Its very difficult to diagnose problems like this with limited information. I recommend keeping an aquarium log with every bit of info on it: results of regular water tests, water changes, livestock added, etc. As Thales said we can't even begin to guess what might have killed your damsel. At this point it could just as well be a nitrogen issue rather than a pH one.

Dan

What are your other parameters (nitrate, nitrite and ammonia)? How much baking soda did your teacher use? If you are worried about the live rock (how does it look?), I would take it out, rinse it in new sea water and return it to the tank. How long has this tank been up and running?

Good luck.

I learned a long time ago that if the animals are healthy and doing okay then stop chasing the pH. 8.8 really isn't that much of a disaster for a marine tank - its much worse going the other way anyway.

Id also add my support to the flaming of test kits - worthless rubbish! You can now get quite cheap and effective digital pH meters - i got one off eBay brand new for £20 - works fine.

Stop putting in pH 8.2, all you are doing is buffering the system even more. 8.2 is designed to be added to acidic tanks to make them more alkaline, not the other way round.

Scolopes, it could be excess nitrification through your filter keeping the pH low? Over filtering can cause that... what is your filter? Also, using pH Down will make the water more acidic not alkaline - you need pH Up!!!


BUT all of these are just quick fixes for pH. Its the KH you need to sort out. I always had good results with using a pH and KH supplement like Salifert KH and pH buffer.

The plants idea probably wont work because at night they respire just like an animal and release as much CO2 as they took out during the day. Thats why planted aquariums CO2 kits are switched off at night.

Baking Soda does NOT lower the pH in freshwater it will make it RISE!!! It will make the pH and KH rise!

The best thing you could do, is sit back, relax and let it work itself out. The pH and KH will come down naturally. I am really not 100% convinced that the pH is your problem! At most do a 50% water change, stir up the substrate first to release any pockets of waste or gasses, syphon it out and add the new water. Leave it without livestock for at least a week to ten days.

Stop adding chemicals.

cheers
Colin

i dont have time to sit back and relax, the octo is for a science project that has to be finished by the end of january. i havent added any chemicals in like a week and i do keep a log of measurements (required for fair) nitrate, ammonia, and nitrite were all around 0. i am starting to think the baking soda got into the rock and is leaching out. i am unsure how a soak in new water would help. the bs incident happened about 2 months ago.

Do you think the pH killed the damsel because of the test kit reading?

Again, I don't think thats it. The kits you have are icky :smile: and it feels like you are chasing numbers. In most cases where people report high pH, they don't really have high pH. Until you get the ability to use a better test kit, I wouldn't worry. Even then, I prolly wouldn't worry.

Well, otherwise-hardy livestock is dying for no apparent reason. I wouldn't worry about the pH either, but I think there is something to worry about in the tank!

Agreed, its something else...

but what? everything else seems fine.. any ideas?

Acclimation - how long did you acclimate the damsels? How did you do it?
Bad fish - how long were the fish at the store before you got them?
Bad test kits - perhaps your other test kits are not so great and giving you false readings.

How long has the tank been set up?

the tank has been set up for about a year now. i think it was a bad batch of fish b/c the others that i kept in a breeding/food tank died too for no apparent reason. *sigh* also, do any of your octos eat dead fish? b/c for my project i cant feed live vertebrates and i need to use 3 food types for testing and then also theres just normal feeding.

off topic, but does anyone know where i can find plastic springs?

Could you explain your project a little more? What types of food will you be offering the octopus, how many octopus are you going to use?

I am also having this problem! I have a 120ish gallon system and my pH is about 6.6-6.8. I was told by the people we bought the system from to use "pH Down" but I'm wondering if there is a better way? (My Instant Ocean is measuring at a pH of about 6.6-6.8 so water change isnt going to help either...why is it so high???)

yeah...i meant 8.6-8.8, not 6.6-6.8. but I think it's off topic for this thread now. I'm adding in som lower pH natural seawater when I do tank changes, we'll see if that helps

yeah...i meant 8.6-8.8, not 6.6-6.8. but I think it's off topic for this thread now. I'm adding in som lower pH natural seawater when I do tank changes, we'll see if that helps



What test kit are you using?

oo, would adding the natural seawater help?? cause i live right next to the beach (well, like 5 blocks, but thats close enough).....

the project is to see if octopi can correlate 2-D images (such as line drawings of foods or simple shapes) with 3-D objects/rewards. i was planning on using fish, shrimp, and crabs. the food is placed in a button-levered box which opens when the correct button is pulled.

the three buttons can all be arranged to open the latch and the images on the buttons can be rearranged too, for more variety (so it doesnt learn to use just a specific button).

before i use the box i was going to give it jars with the rewards inside and the correlating image on the lid (probably do this 3 or 4 times). should be interesting.

the box is handmade from a plastic "mini-helment" case, a variety of pvc piping, knex, slinkys (to make the buttons return), and a pair of custom made plastic hinges (not too hard but very aggrevating to put together).

oo, would adding the natural seawater help?? cause i live right next to the beach (well, like 5 blocks, but thats close enough).....


Help what? Have you tested the water with a reliable test kit to determine you actually have a problem?

well, i guess i kinda meant, like, would it be beneficial at all?

NSW? Thats debatable, even more so because you don't have corals.
Where do you live, and what is the water you would be collecting near?

i live south of the kennedy space center and the water would be just beach-collected waterfrom tide pools, i guess. the only things near it are houses (about 40ft away during low tide)

Tide pool water is prolly not very good. Most suggest collecting water by boat out where it is running clear. YMMV.
I don't think it would be beneficial for you at all, unless you have determined you actually have a problem.

I have been using a "saltwater liquid master test kit" from thatpetplace.com the nsw I use comes from a coastal marine lab on the gulf of maine.

I doubt that adding natural seawater is going to help your predicament at all. First, we need to figure out exactly what the problem is, ie: salinity? phosphates? infection?
There are too many variables right now...it actually sounds as if the buffers have collided, and the tank is ready to precipitate out.

Wow. Yeah. I can't believe that you were putting PH Down and not Up? I wouldn't trust any tank that once had freshwater. I find it too risky.

I think that octopus hardyness varies. Some octopus can overcome anything in the tank--like mine--who doesn't seem bothered by a change. Others can be very delicate to any fluctuation like our first octopus that died.

I think the damsels died from being exposed to a new environment: the tank. My damsels survive through any change and I don't know why I keep getting these hardy pets.

I agree with the people above. Don't read those PH tests--most of them lie to you and are a waste of money! I also wouldn't trust thatpetplace.com they seem very shady about their products and lack general information..unless that's changed?

We thought we had a PH problem too, but the octopus has been living a healthy hardy life for 4 months now without any change in temprament/behavior. We haven't added any other livestock to the tank--just him for now. We think it keeps the level stress free of any added toxins.

Good luck with your project! And never mind the due date, just make sure the little guy is ok! The octopus is more important than a grade!

A good reason for not using fresh seawater is that it contains a lot of phyto and zoo plankton which will die in your tank and cause an ammonia spike

Fresh seawater has to be well filtered before using in a tank

the tank never had freshwater in it, its always been a sw tank, just unused for a few years. well, everything has settled down chemical-wise, now i just cant get my hands on an octopus. i have an order at two lfs but they have yet to get my octo. its really frustrating. fair is feb 9th, and this project can help me get scholarships so i can go to a college i actually am interested in (my parents got florida prepaid when i was little, the problem is that i dont like any of the fl schools...)

You might try to think of a Plan B. Octopuses can be very hard to find in a short period of time. I waited over 18 months for the one I was looking for. If you get your octopus at an LFS it will probably be a recluse and/or nocturnal with weeks or months to live and wouldn't bode well for your project anyway.

Good luck,

Dan