hey everybody, I have a new octopus for myself after about two years of asking for advice and info :smile:

Anyway his name is kraken and he is a little o.bimaculoides.

here is his tank set-up:

Aquarium- 30g tank
Filtration- CPR Aquatics skimmer/bio-filter combo
Structure- a stack of live rock on one side of tank with scattered wavy-top shells for dens.
Tankmates- 2 small brittles, 1 avanax, 1 small sea hare, a couple cleaning shrimp, 2 sculpins, 4 turban snails, and around 2 dozen hermits.
pH levels- "dark blue" on the test or alkaline

yeah i know its only a 30g, but he is very small right now so I will move him up into a 50g when he starts to get bigger or maybe just let him go.

the hermits, shrimp, and the turban snails are working as cleaners/food and the sculpins are very suttle and either feed off extra waste or some tablets I have.

the sea hare eats algae and the avanax is just for show. Also, I would like to know if the care for avanax is the some for sea hares because thats what I have related it to so far. If they are toxic or for advanced keepers only I will quickly send him back he was sticking onto a piece of live rock I brought in and he is very pretty so I just kept him there.

Currently kraken has found a shell to his liking and has littered its front "porch" with empty hermit shells. when we stick our heads to close he reclines partially in but otherwise he is just looking out at us from it.

he is very cool and I would GREATLY appreciate comments and suggestions! Thanks in advance! :grin:


~Michael

Do you mean navanax? If so, then it only eats other nudibranchs - so it will die if it only has algae to eat... I think you should release it.

oh ok, yeah I think I had it wrong!

i will release him ASAP

thats it? OK, if there is not much response than I am going to guess my tank is good :)

Oh, I was also wondering if I should add some pvc pipe for him to mess with since I heard they like it.

comments are appreciated :)

Sometimes we just get very busy and don't have time to reply to all posts!

Welcome to kraken!

A thirty gallon is OK if you have the option of a larger tank later (which has to be cycled) or returning him to the ocean.

A sea hare isn't really recommended, is somewhat risky.

I'm not familiar with that particular filter/skimmer.

You should be testing your water for sg (you'll have to top off with buffered RO/DI water), pH, nitrites, nitrates and ammonia.

Yes, he might like some short lengths of pvc pipe. Try also plastic baby toys, legos, etc. Some octos like them, some don't.

Nancy

well I used fresh ocean water but I still have been testing pH and nitrites.

Should I have a test kit for all of them?

ya sorry for being so impatient...i see now that there are so many people posting now a days that your threads aren't immediately attended to anymore...

well I used fresh ocean water but I still have been testing pH and nitrites.

Should I have a test kit for all of them?

ya sorry for being so impatient...i see now that there are so many people posting now a days that your threads aren't immediately attended to anymore...

Yes, you need a test kit for all of them, because even with ocean water, you are going to have a cycle in your tank with the octopus. You will still need to top off your tank with fresh water because the water is going to evaporate.

ok. but what do you mean by topping it off with fresh water?

I can access fresh ocean water at any time.

When water evaporates out of your tank, only the fresh water part of the water evaporates into the air, the salt is left behind, raising the salinity of the tank's water, so you need to add fresh water to compensate. To try an experiment, leave a puddle of salt water in the sun for a day, you will see the salt left behind. That is why you need to add fresh water NOT clean ocean water... Hope this explanation helps...

EDIT**
do you have any pictures of him?

Marineboy lives near the ocean and gets to collect his own specimens. His vast experience is with seeing octopus in the wild, not with keeping them in captivity - he is learning like we all are...

true^
that was very quick of me to judge his knowledge..we all had to learn that at some point!
im srry marineboy.. im going to edit my post.....

WOW I had no idea! Thanks for that Cuttlegirl!

so when and how much should I add weekly?? I just set the tank up saturday so i dont know when I should add it.

Just however much needs to be filled to put the water level where it's supposed to go.

I draw a line with permanent marker on the outside of my tank at the water level. Then I add water when it is below that line. After salt water changes, I always refill to that line.

thats what i do except i put the line on a peice of clear tape/scotch tape so that if i need to remove the line and put it somewhere else, i can.. lol.....

You needn't worry about the permanent marker on the glass: a little bit of alcohol or acetone will take it right off!

alright, thats fairly simple. thanks :)

is it ok if my salinity is at 1.023 instead of 1.026 like the care sheet reccomends?

also, my test showed readings of small amounts of nitrites in the water so I followed what it said by cleaning the sand on the bottom and doing a 5% water change. is there any other methods I should take to get them back to 0? it also reccommended extra aeration.

thanks for your help guys :)

~Michael

You'll probably have to rely on water changes to keep your water parameters good.

Yes, 1.023 is OK, but you might aim for 1.024-1.025.

Nancy

Nitrite, like ammonia, means a cycle issue. That means the colony of bacteria that process the tank's waste isn't entirely up to the task. The question is how close is it: A) is the system incapable of handling an octopus's waste; or B) there's a big colony of the good bacteria, but the new octopus overwhelmed them slightly and its taking a day or two to overcome.

In another thread another octo-keeper is reporting very high levels of ammonia. He's probably experiencing letter A above and his octopus is in trouble. You seem to only have a very small amount of nitrite, which can make us hopeful for situation B. How can you know for sure? Check your ammonia. If there's any ammonia its bad news and you might consider letting the octo go. If there's no (or only a trace) of ammonia then check both parameters again tomorrow and see if there's less.

A note about testing: These kits aren't that precise. If you're using one of the plastic swing-arm boxes to test the salinity, chances are it has a wide margin of error, so you shouldn't worry too much about the difference between 1.023 and 1.026. The same goes for the color-change chemical test kits. Sometimes they're really tough to read, and some of them will take a perfectly clean water sample and give it enough color tint to suggest it has some ammonia or nitrite when it really doesn't. You might test some fresh, clean water to make sure you know what zero really looks like.

Good luck,

Dan

yeah I am going to test for high levels of ammonia. Since it was ocean water I am going to presume that it was letter B and that the water just had a slight shock though since ocean water already has a good colony of bacteria. yeah the test was a VERY light amount of pink which was a warning of nitrite so there could be none at all due to its innacuracy.

I am going to do another water change too just in case. and also I have been feeding him hermit crabs and small cleaner shrimp but since he is wild does he need a bigger variety of foods? Should i catch all of them or are there some I can just buy since going every day is a pain.

thanks again :)

Since it was ocean water I am going to presume that it was letter B and that the water just had a slight shock though since ocean water already has a good colony of bacteria.

This is a common, but bad assumption. While there is some bacteria floating free in the water, there isn't nearly enough to process all the ammonia your tank makes. Your system's bio-filter is like a farm field for the bacteria, and the amount of bacteria in the water is no more than a seed. It takes time to grow the "crop" from the "seed." That's why the tank needs to cycle for a number of weeks no matter where the water comes from, be it from the tap (purified of course), the ocean, or the reef tank in the next room. The cycle is basically just giving the handful of bacteria in the water time to find the filter and then be fruitful and multiply.

Run the ammonia test before you do the water change so we're comparing apples to apples.

Dan

hmmm, what your saying is a bit shocking since before everybody has told me that if I use fresh ocean water I can knock out the long cycling period that is usually required.

does that mean I should let him go and cycle the tank? he seems to be doing great to me though.

by the way, has kraken been added to our list of octopus?

:hmm:

Do you recall which thread/post someone told you that using fresh seawater would mean you didn't have to cycle? It wasn't the locked thread started by alexfevry, was it?

Some public aquariums and science labs have "flow-through" systems where fresh seawater is constantly being pumped into the tanks and old water is pumped out. These don't need to cycle because they don't have bio-filters: all the ammonia that is produced by the animals gets pumped out into the ocean before it can hurt them. Perhaps you were confusing this with getting seawater for a home tank?

How long has your tank been set up? Is this the system that you've only had set up for a week or two or is it your old tank?

Here's what I'd do. Test ammonia and nitrite every day. If the values of either are more than a trace for more than a day you should really let the octo go for its own health.

When something like this happens, the first instinct is to do water changes. Obviously, it will get rid of some of the ammonia and make the water safer for the animal. This is kind of a mixed bag though, because when the tank is still cycling water changes will make the cycle take longer. The choice is between a shorter, bigger ammonia spike (which will probably kill the animal) or a long, drawn out period of lesser amounts of ammonia (which is cruel to the animal--take the lid off a bottle of ammonia cleaner and take a big whiff if you don't believe me). You're lucky because you can catch and release as you please. If your tank isn't ready and your ammonia/nitrite start rising your octo doesn't have to be punished. Others though might have paid big $$$ for their octo and if they were unprepared the animal can die (This happened to someone over the summer).

If the tank has been set up for a couple weeks you might get lucky and the cycle is nearing its end. The cycle usually only takes a few weeks, we recommend 6-8 weeks only because there are other less critical things going on in the background. Since you're reading nitrite but not ammonia I have a hunch this might be what's happening. You might hold tight for now, then keep testing those two parameters and see if they start rising. If they do, let him go and catch another in a few weeks. If they don't, then you can breathe a sigh of relief :)

Dan

(and by the way, you probably shouldn't try breathing the ammonia. It might do really really really bad things to your brain and your lungs!)

nitrite is fine now and I am getting an ammonia test kit today.

If the ammonia reads high then I will reslease him.

Also the tank has been up for a week.

oh boy, ammonia is at a little less than 1.0 ppm!

should I let him go?

also, I have an extra bio filter. Should I put that on? It would be a real dissapointment if I had to let him go.....

please comment soon! thanks.

~michael

PS: I fed him two ghost shrimp today in which he greatly enjoyed.

Water change, water change, water change!

ok, we can do a water change but how much do you think we should change??

I as thinking 10% or so? thanks for help!

Yup, when in doubt, water change! Haha.

10% is good. Maybe a little more if you can.

You might try testing the water before you add it to the tank, so you know what you're putting into the tank. Depending on where you get it, it seems possible to me the "fresh" water you're adding could contain a bit of nitrites, nitrates, or ammonia. Just my 2 cents.

ya its going to be sea water but noting what Dan said I think i will test it just in case.

ok, after a 15% water change the ammonia has dropped to .25-.50ppm.

is that still deadly???

I would do another water change...

Honestly, I think you should let him go and catch another one in a few weeks.

The tank isn't at all cycled, so all the ammonia the octopus produces is staying in the tank and not getting processed. That means that the ammonia level will only go up and the only way to keep it from killing the octopus is doing daily water changes. In a functioning system the ammonia level should be zero--any waste the animal produces should be converted the instant it hits the filter. Even 0.25 PPM is a lot of ammonia.

If you did daily water changes like that the tank would eventually cycle, but it might take a long time.

What does everyone else think?

Dan

I agree.

With the advantage of living near somewhere you can collect your own it is selfish to risk this ones life.

Agreed

I wish i lived close enough to collect them:cry:

woah woah woah guys! I will let him go I know when to quit!

why are you acting like I am so selfish? Never once did I say that I wouldn't let him go!

Although if anybody in the area wants him or is willing to "octo-sit" I would like that better since its hard to find ones at such a perfect size.

Don't worry, I don't think anyone is saying you're selfish; just that it would be selfish to keep him.

I understand its hard to let him go, but there's plenty of fish in the sea! :smile: Its a hobby that really does reward patience. I first discovered TONMO about three years ago, and I've been waiting that long for an octopus! You're very lucky in that you'll have another one in your tank in just a month or two!

Now, after your octo is out of the tank, you need another source of ammonia in it to get the tank to cycle. This can be a fish (that you can get rid of when its time for the octo to come back), or a dead cocktail shrimp to decompose in the tank.

Dan

Marineboy,

You always do the right thing - you will get another octopus (maybe even the same octopus...). Thanks for being so mature and putting the health of the octopus over your desire for a pet. You are going to make a great marine biologist one day :grin: .

Yes, now is the time to work on your tank so it will be perfect for your next octopus. You're learning so much about keeping a saltwater tank -it will be a lot easier the next time.

Most of us really wish we lived so near the ocean and had the opportunity to find our own octopus.

Nancy

oh, sorry for not posting in a while I was busy. But yes, I did let him go a while back.

Thanks people for your support guys, and a special thanks to cuttlegirl, that was very nice of you :)

OK, I have a problem though. Just recently I checked all my parameters and found that the ammonia was down to 0 and the pH and Nitrates were fine but the Nitrites were WAY up!

Is there a reason they would have done this? Im going to do a water change but I am wondering if the tank still isn't ready...

Your tank is in the process of cycling. Bacteria are going to convert the nitrites to less harmful nitrates but you don't have a large enough population of bacteria yet.

See this link - there is a diagram of a tank and you can see the animation of a tank cycling.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=saltaquarium&cdn=homegarden&tm=9&f=00&su=p284.5.420.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//reefsources.itgo.com/guide/biological.html

Your tank will be fine, you just need to give the bacteria time to reproduce...

Ok, thx :)

so how long do you think it will take for the nitrite to go down though?
a couple days? or weeks?

thanks.

It depends but seeing as your tank has been up and running for about 4 weeks, you have a couple of weeks to go...

ok, thanks guys :)

I think I am good from here but if any other questions or problems show up down the line ill be posting back on this thread.

thanks so much for your help again!