I found this on RC. My mouth was wide open the entire time... They were seeing if the Mantis has an immunity to the Blue Ring's toxins. I am still absolutly amazed.

http://www.reefcentral.com/vid/bluering

tonmo edit: THREAD CLOSED. SEE THIS THREAD (http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7366)

Wow, it looks like Mr. Shrimp won. That blue ring took quite a beating.

It seems like the stomatopod avoided the beak of the blue ring. When I checked Reef Central, the thread from Dr. Caldwell said that the mantis shrimp ate the blue ring :goofysca: .

Poor little thing....:sad:

It seems like the stomatopod avoided the beak of the blue ring. When I checked Reef Central, the thread from Dr. Caldwell said that the mantis shrimp ate the blue ring :goofysca: .

Oh, so he ate everything BUT the beak to avoid the toxins! Wow, that is really, pretty amazing!

EDIT: I just watched the video again, and everytime it gives a chill! I don't know why, but that mantis attacking the Octo just send a chill down my spine.

Oh, so he ate everything BUT the beak to avoid the toxins! Wow, that is really, pretty amazing!


I meant while he was fighting the octopus he seemed to avoid the beak. He would have to not eat the whole salivary gland to avoid the poison.

I need to do some more research...

I see, I never realized how smart Stomatopods really are. You learn something new everyday, huh!?

That wasnt a fair fight!
The mantis shrimp was 5 times bigger then the octo!

seeing as how the squilla we normally catch are 4-5in, i went looking to see how big the get....

on one site i ran across this:
http://www.blueboard.com/mantis/pest/catch.htm

# Use competing animals to control or remove the mantis shrimp. This is much more troublesome and less reliable than using traps, and may involve the temporary removal of other inhabitants out of the container. Unless the competing creature is significantly larger than the mantis shrimp, there's every chance that you're going to lose it instead. These are not recommended methods for mantis shrimp removal.
...
2. Octopuses- remove potential prey, then introduce borrowed, rented, or bought octopus into tank. Make sure there are no relatively large openings or the thing will easily escape and wander around your kitchen at night in search of food. The size thing goes here as well. Large mantis shrimps will gladly eat smaller octopi.
...

I meant while he was fighting the octopus he seemed to avoid the beak. He would have to not eat the whole salivary gland to avoid the poison.

I need to do some more research...
I noticed the same thing; it appeared the mantis was trying to flip the octo so it was beak-down...

the whole time i was thinking "go little octo jet off in to your den where the mean ol stomeopod cant get you!!!!"


chris

the whole time i was thinking "go little octo jet off in to your den where the mean ol stomeopod cant get you!!!!"


chris

Haha! I lol'd!!

Mantis shrimp are so stinking fast. Mr. Blue Ring didn't stand a chance in hell. Kind of a sad ending for such a beautiful creature. Bludgeoned to death by food.

Mantis shrimp are so stinking fast. Mr. Blue Ring didn't stand a chance in hell. Kind of a sad ending for such a beautiful creature. Bludgeoned to death by food.

Yeah, although some kind of ant (trap-jaw ant?) has mandibles that just beat out the mantis shrimp for "fastest strike in an animal":
http://www.physorg.com/news75469635.html

When dealing with a Kaiju-like "battle of the invertebrates", I have to root for the ceph. I mean, a squilla is a freakin' bug! D**ned arthropods! Shrimp = food. Octo = companion. Next time, try pitting more equally-sized combatants! That was sooo not fair. If it has an exoskeleton, it's the enemy.

It wasn't my experiment. And it wasn't intended to be a fair fight, or a fight at all. It was a test for the Stomatopod's resistance to the Blue Rings venom.

sure didnt seem like a fair fight size-wise. poor lil ocot

Oh, I surely recognize the scientific validity of the experiment, no problem there, it's just that I always root for the ceph. When we're gone I want to see them attain supremacy over this planet. It always should have belonged to them. After all, Cthulhu planted them here.

And, much as I'd like a squilla of my own to pet and cuddle - particularly if it's a really big one - man, they're just nasty critters. Cool-looking, though.

Yeah, I understand. I was rooting fot the octopus also, but he didn't stand a chance. It would be pretty cool to see a fair fight with an octo and a Stomatopod

Oh, I surely recognize the scientific validity of the experiment, no problem there.

But there was a size variable introduced. A better design would be to have similar sized animals. From that tape they still don't know if squilla is immune to the toxin because the octopus couldn't get a bite in!

I wonder if the test was repeated with different sized animals and what ethics approval was required. We'd have to jump through hoops to be allowed to do that. BTW our animal protection act would recognise the octopus as an animal but not the squilla :lol:

J

What would be an even better design would be to simply inject the shrimp with extracted toxin. This would be definitive, and less risky.
Not an example of the best science!

Cheers!

But that wouldn't be as cool as seeing a octo with a 4" mantle against a 4" Stomatopod! That would be so awesome to watch!

Stomatopod's are pretty psycho (and fairly intelligent on their own), a fight between equal sized animals would definitely be a gladiator match, but perhaps still unfair. I figure the mantis shrimp is going to get at least a few blows in before the octo even gets a chance unless the octo uses a sneak attack move. Seems like a smart octopus would just leave Mr. Clobber or Mr. Sharpie be.

Did anybody else here see Mike De Gruy's special" Incredible Suckers"? On that, a blue ring tangles with an aggresive manits shrimp, plays mind-games with it, and then blows it's toxin around a rock with it's siphon to kill the squilla long-distance. The squilla basically deflates (metaphorically). Then the blue ring eats the squilla. Incredible. These were about the same size. Haven't we all seen this special by now? It's from 90's.

Hi yes, I think that was Dr Roy who set up that particular one Erich

Interesting as it is, putting the two together to fight just seems a rather cruel and unnecessary thing to do. It's just a pointless death of a beautiful creature just for the video camera. Are animals expendable for a quick 45 second internet entertainment?

Thanks, Phil. Thats the point that I was trying to get at. There are many ways that are less cruel to determine whether or not a mantis shrimp is immune to the octo's toxin. And clearly if they had done their research, they'd have discovered that some one has already proved that its not.

Cheers!

Right. It may be "cool" to watch a mantis and a blue ring go at it, but is it ethical?

Also, "Incredible Suckers" is the movie that turned me on to cephs!

Joey

For what it is worth, I've posted as a new thread my response to comments on the quality and ethics of the science behind the O. scyllarus predation sequence, I have also asked RC to stop hosting the clip. I guess I assume that people will assume best in others. It was not my intention to offend anyone by posting on RC images of a stomatopod feeding on an octopus.

Roy

Hi all,

I am going to close this thread and you can follow the rest of it here...

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7366

Colin