View Full Version : West Palm Beach Carcass
chipster
Aug 23, '06, 9:27am
A diver in West Palm Beach took this photo of what appears to be a squid carcass on August 30, 2004. The remoras are between 60 and 90 cm long. Anyone? I am searching for more info...
A diver in West Palm Beach took this photo of what appears to be a squid carcass on August 30, 2004. The remoras are between 60 and 90 cm long. Anyone? I am searching for more info...
call me a cynic, but I think it looks like some kind of artificial thing, like perhaps a boat bumper. The line down the side looks more like a manufacturing mark than a place where a fin was ripped off or something. But I'm really just going on my gut impression.
chipster
Aug 23, '06, 2:21pm
The source stated "organic" the nature of the thing, I am trying to locate other photos to refute or confirm this. I am not knowingly trying to dupe anyone! Thanks for the help.
The source stated "organic" the nature of the thing, I am trying to locate other photos to refute or confirm this. I am not knowingly trying to dupe anyone! Thanks for the help.
I didn't mean in any way to suggest you were trying to dupe anyone, just that it looks weird and man-made to me for some reason. After I posted, I was thinking that it seemed odd that it seems very rigid, and that the mantle appears to be hollow, without any internal organs or viscera... something about the way it's fuzzy and fraying at the edges doesn't seem like molluscan muscle, either; it seems a lot more fiberous than I'd expect.
Architeuthoceras
Aug 23, '06, 3:19pm
Looks like a squid to me :hmm:
The line is either ventral or dorsal, and the tentacle bases are on the left. Hard to see where a gladius would fit though. :hmm:
Looks like a squid to me :hmm:
The line is either ventral or dorsal, and the tentacle bases are on the left. Hard to see where a gladius would fit though. :hmm:
Chipster emailed me some much higher resolution images, and some of the things that looked off to me disappeared when looking closely, so I think I was too cynical. I had been thinking the lines were lateral rather than dorsal/ventral, but I guess I don't have any reason for that except that I thought they might have been the attachment points for one of those squids with big triangular fins that run the whole length of the mantle. Why do you think they're dorsal or ventral? Also, note that there is a line on the inside of the mantle opposite the one visible on the outside...
Can you post the other pics, Chipster, or may I? There are some interesting gouges shown in one of the pictures, where it looks like the photographer rolled it away from the camera in one of them...
main_board
Aug 23, '06, 4:38pm
Well the mantle is probably hollow as the internal organs are much softer and more fragile than the muscular mantle. That'd make the organs the first to break down, the easiest to consume, and possibly quite tasty to some small fish that could just waltz right in the big gapping hole at the top of the animal and feast. Though it may not be a squid, I would definitely think that it'd be organic at least fiven the presence of the remoras, including one suctioned on and possibly feeding.
I look forward to seeing more pictures, if possible.
Cheers!
Well the mantle is probably hollow as the internal organs are much softer and more fragile than the muscular mantle. That'd make the organs the first to break down, the easiest to consume, and possibly quite tasty to some small fish that could just waltz right in the big gapping hole at the top of the animal and feast. Though it may not be a squid, I would definitely think that it'd be organic at least fiven the presence of the remoras, including one suctioned on and possibly feeding.
I look forward to seeing more pictures, if possible.
Cheers!
Yeah, that makes sense. I also mentioned in the email but forgot in the post that the mantle may look more rigid than it is because in water it's close to (or exactly, if it's ammoniacal) neutral buoyancy, so it doesn't sag under its own weight at all. So most of the things that seemed non-ceph initially disappeared under closer inspection.
sorseress
Aug 23, '06, 5:04pm
Hey Monty, you're a cynic!:tongue:
Tintenfisch
Aug 23, '06, 5:23pm
Wow, cool shot!
The horizontal line looks like the dorsal median line to me, with the gladius kind-of-but-not-quite visible underneath. The rigid appearance is a little weird, but the rest of the features look very squiddy to me.
erich orser
Aug 23, '06, 5:53pm
Looks like a squid from here as well.
chipster
Aug 31, '06, 4:40pm
I have the additional photos monty mentioned. but trouble uploading now, I can email them if anyone else is interested, Monty can pass them on as well. If anyone could comment on potential species or familiy, I'd love to hear... Thanks
Hello Chipster,
Great mystery you have, here. It does look like a squid, for the reasons Architeuthoceras mentioned (structures that look like arm stumps and dorso-ventral lines) but also for the slight indentation visible in the tube, as if it were pinched just above the "head." This indent gives some squid mantles a distinctive Coke-bottle profile.
As for a species ID (if it's a squid), I don't think that's possible without a lot more photos that show characteristic features in detail, such as the funnel or mantle attachment points.
Still, great fun mystery and please post more photos.
Also:
:welcome:
The rigid appearance is a little weird, but the rest of the features look very squiddy to me.
Those resting remoras look like they've oriented themselves in the direction of the current. Current pushing into the tube might puff it out some, yes?:hmm:
Cheers,
Clem
Tintenfisch
Aug 31, '06, 8:07pm
Hmm, could be... though I would expect it to puff the tube out in this way if it were coming from the direction of the arms, entering the mantle at its anterior margin; coming from the other direction I would expect it rather to flatten the pointy end?
Maybe the remoras are smiling for the camera... :wink:
Architeuthoceras
Aug 31, '06, 9:18pm
Could it be that only remains washed ashore turn into globsters and those still in the sea keep their shape a little longer?
hmmm... didnt catch anything for calling them tentacle bases instead of arm bases. :razz:
Those resting remoras look like they've oriented themselves in the direction of the current. Current pushing into the tube might puff it out some, yes?:hmm:
Very good point.
chipster
Sep 01, '06, 3:02pm
I am trying to repost some photos, I managed to get one more attached. File size still a prob...
chipster
Sep 01, '06, 3:06pm
Well, Here is one more, unfortunately they are from similar perspective.
chipster
Sep 01, '06, 3:15pm
Ok, that's all I have. Hope they help. I think one had the brightness adjusted, so the color is off a bit, OOPS! (no other photoshop was conducted--for you cynics!)
:shock:
Great shots, Chipster; thanks for posting them despite the uploading difficulties.
Interesting wound patterns on that squid. What might have caused that cluster of parallel, shallow wounds? Almost looks like a propeller strike.
Cheers,
Clem
Tintenfisch
Sep 03, '06, 5:33pm
Wow. Very cool. Not for the squid, but, you know... :roll:
Propeller-strike sounds like a good guess for those gashes - does it leave similar marks on other boat-struck animals? Anyone know? If this it Archi, it would have to have been dead or moribund first, but it could be something else big that's found more shallow...
Propeller strike seemed more likely than, oh, I don't know, ravening sea badger.:goofysca:
sorseress
Sep 04, '06, 4:11am
Propeller strike seemed more likely than, oh, I don't know, ravening sea badger.:goofysca:
Ravening sea badger???
What is that??? A great white with fur? Talk about a
scary image! Badgers are nasty little beasts!
Architeuthoceras
Sep 04, '06, 10:53am
Propeller strike on manatee (http://www.homesafe.com/manatee/first-encounter-03.html)
And a presumed sea badger (Burstofenergy24's avatar)
If it was a propeller strike, wouldn't the boat captain notice that they'd just gashed a huge animal? Like if it stalled the boat or something. If weeds can stall a boat, I think a squid could. Maybe the gashes aren't the cause of death... :twocents:
Joey
If it was a propeller strike, wouldn't the boat captain notice that they'd just gashed a huge animal? Like if it stalled the boat or something. If weeds can stall a boat, I think a squid could. Maybe the gashes aren't the cause of death... :twocents:
Joey
Even on a small motorboat, there's surprisingly little feedback when your prop hits something... maybe some noise or a bump, but not a whole lot. I've luckily avoided this myself so far (probably more by not having that much time in motorboats than anything else) but I understand it's a fairly common occurrence to mangle the propellor on rocks or logs or something and not even notice. The engines on power boats are really high torque, and the spun up prop has a lot of intertia, so slicing through squid or manatee or scuba diver flesh really doesn't impact the way the boat behaves much differently than slicing through water. If you hit a big rock, yeah, you'll notice some of the time, although typically that'll mangle the prop and push the boat a little up or sideways... Weeds and kelp are a very different situation, where they get wound around the shaft, building up to where the engine is putting all of its power into overcoming the tangled mess rather than keeping the prop spinning, and as the prop spins it winds up more and more gunk, so it will tend to slowly lose speed and power and head up until the engine can't fight it any more and stalls out... that's a slow buildup of gunk rather than a single impact, though.
If it was a propeller strike, wouldn't the boat captain notice that they'd just gashed a huge animal? Like if it stalled the boat or something. If weeds can stall a boat, I think a squid could. Maybe the gashes aren't the cause of death... :twocents:
Hello Joey,
If those gashes were caused by a boat's revolving prop, it's possible the pilot didn't feel anything: squid are fairly soft-bodied, much more so than a marine mammal. I agree with you that those cuts aren't the likely cause of death. They don't appear to have penetrated into the mantle cavity, where most of a squid's vital organs are.
Cheers,
Clem
ps: Oops, Monty just explained the mechanics of a boat-strike very well, so, what he said.:roll:
Perhaps it was already a floating carcass when the prop struck? It may not necessarily have been the cause of death.
WhiteKiboko
Sep 04, '06, 10:47pm
from the prop strikes i've seen they've been a bit more diagonally oriented, but a clem pointed out squid are softer....