OK guys, this is the plan I've drawn up for my dissertation basedon the Comparative Morphology of Cephalopods. Please lemme know what you think!

Honours project Plan (draft 1)

Abstract:
•Briefly intro the cephalopod (see typed Abstract that was submitted for ideas)
•Intro my topic; what’s the deal with it!?
•What I did
•What I found??

Introduction:
•develop previous points
•give a “brief” history of Cephalopods
•begin to tie in with subject (see intro document, this will prob be the blueprint!)- current intro will do as basis

Main Body:
•The basic anatomy of the Cephalopod, lifestyle and habits, distribution
•Evolutionary differences
•Looking at the Records: Possible theories for the evolution of

1.Squids and Cuttlefishes
the different families
habitats
how this might affect them
how the suckers work

2.Octopuses
families
habitats
effect on their lifestyle of habitat
how the suckers work

3.Fossil (prehistoric) Cephs
mostly belemnoids
hooks

4.Odd Cases (just briefly describe)
cirrates esp. Staurotheuthis syrtensis
vampyromorphs?
Nautiluses

Conclusion/Discussion:
•Compare the morphologies: recapping the differences etc. This will be quite long, and will probably only include one section, bringing all the observations together

Acknowledgements and Thanks

References

I have a few species I will use as "models" as well as (hopefully) a good amount of photos which I have taken!

Graeme

looks pretty good to me. I'm imagining that in the conclusions/discussion part you may want to mention a comparison of possible theories and interpretations... it's often worthwhile to have that in a separate section to delineate "what is known" from "what is guessed."

Wow...that's an Honours project....very impressive...lots of work...

Good luck with it :)

Cool, thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback very much! I sent a copy to my proj convenor and he said to include more about hte suckers otherwise it will be just a comparison of cephs, but the idea was that it was from, a sucker point of view anyway, so it will have more on suckers in there, this is just the very basic skeleton!

Graeme

How long is the dissertation, Graeme?

If it is 15,000 words or so you'll find those words are used up very quickly indeed. My only (slight) worry is that you've set yourself too much work there, I wonder if you'll spread yourself too thin covering a huge topic.

Still, I wouldn't listen to me if I was you!

No Phil, you're absolutely right. That IS my worry!! There's not a lot of literature on suckers, so I'm kinda worried I'm gonna have to pad it out a bit...

Graeme

I'd probably limit your abstract to what you found, and how you determined this, and do so in a paragraph or two (< 500 words). Your introduction is a more appropriate place for other points.

The 'what I did' could well be 'Method' (at least how you did it).

'Brief intro to ceph' is certainly the first intro paragraph in your introduction.

The 'what I found' is your results, and you discuss the significance of this in your 'discussion'.

Definitely wish I did something like that. I measured the penis length of dog whelks...

Definitely wish I did something like that. I measured the penis length of dog whelks...

:confused: For a good reason I hope (TBT/imposex?)

I measured the penis length of dog whelks...


Really? Were you working on imposex?

Actually, there's a thing! Do you have to put the name of the discoverer every time you introduce a new species latin name? for example, when I first use the name Vampyroteuthis infernalis with no abbreviations in the genus name, do I have to also put Chun, eg Vampyroteuthis infernalisChun?? Or can I get away with just putting the species name in? It's not like it's a huge ordeal (I can just pop the species into Cephbase) but I think it looks ugly in a paper and can ruin the flow of the sentence.

Graeme

when I first use the name Vampyroteuthis infernalis with no abbreviations in the genus name, do I have to also put Chun, eg Vampyroteuthis infernalisChun?? Or can I get away with just putting the species name in?
Graeme

Dont forget the date!

Author and date always come in handy somewhere down the line :wink:

AARgh! Vampyroteuthis infernalis Chun 1903!? Hmmm, I'm going to have to go through my paper again and add them all in then. Oh well.

Graeme

Just a little thing, try checking ITIS (Integrated Taxonomic Information System) for the author and dates. I found that they sometimes differ between ITIS and Cephbase.

Ah! Ok, I'll go and do that too.

Graeme

Didn't mean to add more work. I just remember having to look up information on Bathypolypus and it got confusing with all the synonyms and so one. I had ITIS recommended to me, so that's what I used.

Good Luck with it:grin:

cool! Is there a site? www.itis.usda.govThis is it, right? Ta very muckle!

What do you do when you come across a taxonomic status that's valid and invalid? for example, on the giant squid. There's 2 status entries. Do I just go by the valid one? The one deemed invalid here is the commonly accepted date of discovery, 1857.

the address is http://www.itis.usda.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/SingleRpt, it wouldn't work as a hyperlink, but if you go to the homepage and type in Architeuthis dux, you'll see what I mean.

Graeme

Always use the valid name. It gets tricky when there are lots of synonyms, and species have been grouped together or separated out... but in the case of Architeuthis, it says that Steenstrup 1956 had the name mispelled in the literature. Plus the valid name still acknowledges Steenstrup. So that should be good.

sorry for not listing the website....totally forgot :oops: :octopus:

One thing... This is really stupid, does anyone have the diameter of the suckers od lesser flying squid, Todaropsis eblanae?? Even just diameter of one tentacle sucker and one arm sucker! I took pics and sketches ages ago but i did the worst thing posible; sacrilege- forgot to take measurements!! I suppose I need a good clip across the ear for that! How the hell did I forget to do that!?

Graeme

Just a little thing, try checking ITIS (Integrated Taxonomic Information System) for the author and dates. I found that they sometimes differ between ITIS and Cephbase.

Fantastic for extant taxa, now when is someone or some institution going to do that for fossil taxa :grin:

Hey,

Thought I had the information in one of my books, but no such luck. There are some references sited on ITIS if you search the scientific name. Maybe those might have something.

It's OK. I tried to find something, but I think i kept going in circles and ending up back where I started! I do recall the basic sizes in relation to other objects and such like, so that's not so bad.

Oh yeah, is it just the species I have to add dates and stuff, or for everything? If so then I reckon my paper might be swamped by dates! I've been trawling through classes, families etc.

Graeme

Completely depends on how you're writing it and what you're writing about. For mine, I used was only looking at one genus so I just talked about the family, then the genus and then onto the species...I had to use the dates for each taxonomic level. If you're just using the scientific name, then I think you can just use the species reference. But could be wrong.

Well I should get it done hpefully by about 1-2pm today, so's I've got a week to correct it. I'm submitting it to a few people here, so I could put it in a new thread for folks to read and see what they think- only thing is it'll be pretty big like!!, or if you want me to send the word doc then I can do that also. If not then I'll have it done by first thing tomorrow. Don't take it on though, if you're realyl busy, as it's gonna be a fair size.

Graeme

Would love to read it, only I'm bogged down with labs and my own thesis right now. Sorry. I'm sure it's great, but if you still want to send it along, go right ahead :grin:

Yep no problem. Totally understand the whole No Time thing!!:cry: But I'm nearly done- I should get it done tonight... hopefully! And then I'll send it out to a few people.
I was gonna ask about getting it put up here, well the final draft anyway, so it might be on this site!

Graeme

Wish I was that far along with my thesis (just on the stats part right now) But I think that's a good idea to get it posted. I'd like to read it,...just too much homework lately.

Well, good luck with it and let me know how it goes :grin:

Will do! Definitely! Good luck wading through those stats! Hate statistics! Too much stats! :lol: Hope you get through them, I'm sure you'll do fine!

Graeme

Well, where would we be without stats? (having fewer headaches?:bugout: )

Happy writing!

:grad: :octopus: :coffee:

Well, just to say that its 10pm and that's the first draft finished! DOne and dusted! I just need to add the thanks and references, which I'll do tomorrow before dishing out the first draft to folks- that'll take all of half an hour!! Of course there's gonna be a few mistakes as my brain and eyes hurt now and i cant do anymore. It's only a first draft anyways! I'll probably look over it tomorrow. I'm tired now, so laters folks... speak to you all tomorrow...:bonk: :sleeping:

Graeme

Handed it in today!! It's as good as done, I guess. If anyone wants a copy then just either PM or email me, I'm sure my addy is in my profile!
Oh, and big thanks, Phil. :grin:

Graeme

Congratulations! That has to be a huge load off your mind.
:glass:

...now you just have to re-write it for publication!

:grad: Well done Graeme. It's an excellent piece of work, I hope you get a good grade as you definitely deserve it.

Well done mate, now go and enjoy some party time before you start to study for your exams!

eups

Thanks guys! And thanks too, Phil. Feh, I wish I had time to party! I've got to do a presentation based on my dissertation on Friday. Should be fine, I should know what I need to, only problem would be trying to condense 11k words into 10 minutes!! I'll maybe just fly over some parts, like just mention Cavitation, and leave it for someone to ask about at the end (shows whether people's been listening as well!!!).

Graeme

Congratulations!!!

Don't worry about your presentation, you've done all that work, it'll just come to you.:mrgreen:

You want to have heard the presentation! The slideshow was quite "spectacular" but I was losing my voice that morning,and so couldn't manage over a croak! I was also over by about 2-3 minutes, but then I wasn't warned during the last 2 minutes, so I guess that wasn't really my fault... meh.

Graeme

I'm sure it went well.... :grad:

...but what were you doing the day before that made you loose your voice? :sly:

Have you found out your results yet? Here, they make you wait after your defense/presentation to find out.....at least that's what I heard. Guess I'll find out in the next couple of weeks.

What was I doing? Probably coughing my lungs up! :sad: I can't remember now.

Dunno when we get told our marks yet, we'll probably have to wait forever to get that. To be fair, it is a lot of reading for the staff to get through!:lol:

RKD

coughing your lungs up?

Not through smoking i hope LOL

Really looking forward to going to a pub or club now that Scotland has banned smoking in ALL public places :grin:

For non Scottish members...

http://www.clearingtheairscotland.com/

To be fair, it is a lot of reading for the staff to get through!:lol:


I have the opposite problem, not enough to write as of now. Got the joys of writers block.....oh well, hopefully it'll end soon.

Bathypol, you'll get through it OK. How are you writing it? I found the best way, my advisor told me this, is to take every section and type it up in separate word files, instead of having it all as one big chunk; as he said, it's like trying to eat an elephant in one go (why anyone would want to try and take a bite out a fully grown heffalump is beyond me but anyway), while the best way is to take little bites out of it, and you'll manage the whole thing better... It's called the Elephant Theory or something. You're probably doing this already, with each section in a different file, but if you're not, I can easily suggest that as a very good way of going about it! If you get stuck on one bit, start another:grin:.
You'll do absolutely peachy anyway, dude, don't worry about it.

coughing your lungs up?

Not through smoking i hope LOL

Really looking forward to going to a pub or club now that Scotland has banned smoking in ALL public places :grin:

For non Scottish members...

http://www.clearingtheairscotland.com/
Me too, colin! I'm a strict non-smoker, but I don't have a problem with it myself... I do have a problem with having to breathe everyone else's smoke, however! Can't wait til this Saturday, when instead of coming home stinking of smoke, I'll be coming home stinking of BO! :mrgreen: oh joy.

Graeme

Thanks for the advice :grin:. Got it done....finally!

Can't wait til this Saturday, when instead of coming home stinking of smoke, I'll be coming home stinking of BO! :mrgreen: oh joy.

seems like everywhere is going non-smoking...a lot of Canadian cities are going non-smoking or at least non-smoking in areas where there are minors

You got it done!? in one day!? Well done that man! Seriously though, it feels good to get it out the way. Now it's just gotta be proof-read to check for errors... I htink hte no-smoking thing's a great idea, although it's already coming under flakk and being blamed for stupid and unreasonable things! This old guy fell against the bar and bumped his head while supposedly going for a cigar out front, and died; he was in his 70s and probably pissed out his skull! And some people are blaming the smoking ban on that. he could have gotten up to go to the toilet or play on the bandit just as easily... Damn stupid arguement!

Graeme

Yeah, in one city, they banned smoking in all places that kids could go, so they made even some doughnut shops restricted to kids....I mean, c'mon!

Personally, I get all stuffed up with smoke, so I'm thrilled at the no smoking....

An old man falling and hitting his head is not the smoking bans fault, they bar should look at if he slipped on something...that's far more likely.

I'm a 'rather heavy' smoker, and enjoy going to a bar where people don't smoke too. Mind you, I do like a bar with an outdoor area where you can smoke, and think that it is over the top for airports to have closed down their smoking lounges! With a requirement to now check in 2hrs before departure (due to increased security), a long-haul flight and then the LONG wait at the other end with customs, security and baggage clearance, I've seen some pretty ratty smokers at airports (and been one myself!).

Bring back smoking lounges at airports!!!

When they started talking about a smoking ban for bars in my hometown I was somewhat ambivalent--I had always avoided bars because of the smoke, but on the other hand I figured let the smokers have one last bastion. I still don't go to bars often, but I enjoy it much more without having my clothes smelling like smoke.

I am perfectly fine with the idea of smoking lounges as long as they're not only in different rooms, but also on different ventilation systems. I was in PA a couple weeks ago where smoking hasn't been banned in restaurants. I had forgotten how pointless it is to have smoking vs non-smoking sections. Even the foyer of the Olive Garden smelled like an ashtray.

I have nothing against smokers--we all make individual choices about our health and it would be no better than hating people who don't exercise or who use Rio pumps. I want smokers to be able to be happy and smoke as long as they do so in a way that doesn't affect me.

Dan

Second hand smoke gives me asthma so I'm pleased if I can go to a restaurant and not have to leave early, or suffer the consequences. I like breathing. Breathing is good!

In my hometown, before the smoking ban, I remember this one restaurant that had the smoking section in the front of the restaurant and you had to walk through it to get to the non-smoking section....real bright.

As for the smoking lounges in airports...totally agree with DHyslop....keep them (helps keep people calm and not so tense) but well ventillated...that way, everyone wins.....smokers can get their nicotine fix and I'm not all stuffy and swollen from the smoke :grin:

airports should use the same tech as casinos. just have envromental controls that change the air supply more often.

I'd like to read it if you don't mind. And if you haven't finished yet, I'd suggest limiting your comparison of the different Ceph families to a specific morphological feature - suckers and arms; adaptation and function; anatomy and physiology, etc. Well, I'm probably joining in on this thing way too late, but here's my two cents anyway.
Buena suerte

Hey no problem, if you PM me your email address, I'll gladly send it. Yeah it's been handed in, about a month and a half now, and I've been getting some feedback on it. The head of department wouldn't elaborate, but he at least said he enjoyed reading it so I suppose that's OK, even if the whole thing turns out to be just a load of poppycock.
Oh, are you asking me or Bathypol? He's done a thesis as well, but I think it was for a PHd, or masters or something higher than mine.

Graeme

Hey Graeme,

First of all, I'm a she (......just for future reference :wink: )

and second, my thesis is for an Honours degree as well...but it has nothing to do with cephs unfortunately....just fish.

Glad you're getting good feedback from your profs...any time they say it was a good read, it's a good thing.

First of all, I'm a she (......just for future reference :wink: )


"On the internet, no one knows if you're a squid..."

I have a friend who claims she can reliably guess a persons gender just by reading things they've written. I'm not sure if I'm envious of this skill, or bothered (I've also read that there appears to be an impact on how academic papers are peer-reviewed depending on whether the author's name is male, female, or just initials, which I think is awful enough to begin with, but the idea that someone can judge that based on writing style makes the anonymous review process sound like it doesn't solve that issue, either...)

First of all, I'm a she
Me too!

Steve,

Not again! Remember this is not a supporter's thread...

Hey Graeme,

First of all, I'm a she (......just for future reference :wink: )

and second, my thesis is for an Honours degree as well...but it has nothing to do with cephs unfortunately....just fish.

Glad you're getting good feedback from your profs...any time they say it was a good read, it's a good thing.

Oh, bum. I'm so sorry. Well I had to say something, I couldn't just say "it". :grin:

I thought you were doing a pHD or somthing! Just by what you said previously what you were doing seemed way more advanced and complercaterd than mines.

Graeme

Hey Graeme,

No worries...if I had been really upset, I'd have started calling you a she! :wink:

Are you planning on going on to grad school after you're done this degree?

I dunno. I kind of want to work a bit, earn some money, and maybe get some of this student debt worked off. I did think about contacting Steve about possible doctorates, but I've been speaking to this guy who works for a documentary company, Natural History New Zealand or something, who said that they have a proper full-time board of biologists who research for the progs! I would love to do that, so if I was able to work for these guys and do a doctorae as part of my job, then that would be just absolutely peachy! You thinking of going further?

Graeme

NHNZ do good work!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I dunno. I kind of want to work a bit, earn some money, and maybe get some of this student debt worked off. I did think about contacting Steve about possible doctorates, but I've been speaking to this guy who works for a documentary company, Natural History New Zealand or something, who said that they have a proper full-time board of biologists who research for the progs! I would love to do that, so if I was able to work for these guys and do a doctorae as part of my job, then that would be just absolutely peachy! You thinking of going further?

:oops:

My geography is a bit out (had to edit .... Scotland isn't Otago)

Graeme, I checked out your 'interests', and I'm afraid to say we don't do doctorates in "walking, pubs, guitar and bass guitar, reading, drawing, music, bossing shoggoths around", so you'll have to be a little more specific.

By the way, what's a 'shoggoth'?

By the way, what's a 'shoggoth'?



It's a cthulhu mythos beastie sorta like a globster with eyes and teeth.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&hs=kRS&client=opera&rls=en&sa=N&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=shoggoth&spell=1&tab=wi

They're good lads, you've just got to keep at them sometimes because they can tend to just hang about chatting all day when there's a non-eudclidean shedload of work to do. They also sometimes take a bit longer than an hour for lunch too, you gotta watch for that!

Graeme

The whole documentary research job would be amazing. Just think, they may drag you along with some of their filming.....see, that's what I would love.

You thinking of going further?


I want to go on but it's proving trickier that I thought. Seems that schools like to hold your past descretions against you...even many years later (lets just say I had more fun partying during my first degree than actually studying)....and now that I've come back to get my marks up...they're still bringing up my first degree. It'll never end!

So, if I'm lucky enough, I want to go on and study ceph taxonomy...if not...need an assistant with the documentary research???:wink:

:grin: Even better! I think we should start up a business, like a board of biologists, zoologists, botanists, etc and start our own research company!! How sweet would that be?

Graeme

I'm in... Now where do we get the money??? :smile:

the... what?

Graeme

Oh right, we're biologists... we just have to marry rich... I smartly married a musician, another high paying job :grin:

Now, now, both scientists and musicians are supposed to be above mundane things like worrying how to put food on the table and paying the rent.

Oh yeah, I forgot we're not supposed to inter-marry (or is that inter-breed?). Well too late for me on both those fronts... good thing he actually makes money as a musician...

As scientists, our work is our life...who needs such frivolous things like food, a roof over our heads (especially in the warmth of Canada), or such comforts as light and heating.....

After all, it's all about the love of :tentacle: :histio:

Well, I guess you could always cuddle with a dead squid to keep warm...

Hmmm...after working with quite a few dead one's I can definitely say, they aren't warm! But then again, never tried to cuddle one....that would just be creepy!:shock:

good thing he actually makes money as a musician...


Yeah, vanishingly few of us get to make a living at music. And I make more as a musician than a friend of mine makes as a high school biology teacher.

Well, I guess you could always cuddle with a dead squid to keep warm...

aren't you supposed to do that with a cuddlefish?

dammit! I was gonna say, what about giving a cuttle a cuddle?

Damn you, Monty >shakes fist like the conductor from On The Buses<

Graeme

Originally posted by Monty aren't you supposed to do that with a cuddlefish?

That I've done... (with a live cuttlefish of course) My cuttles used to live in a 8 foot diameter circular tank so I would swim with them when I had to clean their tank. If I stood on the bottom of the tank, they would come and cuddle under the arch of my foot. Very ticklish, but cute...

8' diameter tank... that's totally sweet! This wasn't in your living room or anything was it!? That's still pretty cool though. I wonder... could it be possible that cephs are affectionate? Hmmmm

Graeme

Well, what about the prairy squid? :oops::grin:

Originally posted by Graeme
8' diameter tank... that's totally sweet! This wasn't in your living room or anything was it!?

No, although I wish it was in my living room... I kept my little cuties behind-the-scenes at the Waikiki Aquarium while working on my master's degree. They did recognize me as opposed to any other staff members staring in their tank, although it was probably because I fed them most of the time...

I kept my little cuties behind-the-scenes at the Waikiki Aquarium while working on my master's degree.

See, that's the kind of grad school I'd love....ceph research and Hawaii :grin:

Well, it wasn't all fun and games. Let's see... I usually rode my bike down a large mountain in the morning to feed the cuttles, then surfed, then got to my first class. Then in the afternoon I rode back down to and fed the cuttles again, surfed some more and then spent the wee hours in the lab... Then rode my bike up the mountain to the house I was renting with two local guys who were always trying to feed me "Tako Poke" (raw octopus).

Tough Life!

Ugh! I dunno how you managed it... (laying on the sarcasm ever so thick):lol:

Waikiki Aquarium, eh? I "borrowed" a few pieces of info on Nautiluses from the website there. :wink: Good stuff! I was also in contact with Richard Young from the University of Hawaii. Does he have anythign to do with the Aquarium at all?

Graeme

Well, it wasn't all fun and games. Let's see... I usually rode my bike down a large mountain in the morning to feed the cuttles, then surfed, then got to my first class. Then in the afternoon I rode back down to and fed the cuttles again, surfed some more and then spent the wee hours in the lab... Then rode my bike up the mountain to the house I was renting with two local guys who were always trying to feed me "Tako Poke" (raw octopus).
Damn however did you survive?

Got to say that is the way to go to school. It reminds me of the classes I took many years ago at Indian River CC, 8 am calculus, 10 am windsurfing in the Indian River with manatees, seaturtles, and the occasional alligator. Lunch at the Dodgers training camp, back to class and on good days a night shuttle launch watched from my boat on the banana river (lights up the whole sky).

Ok, so are you people trying to make me jelouse? :grin:

As I said, it wasn't all fun and games... I had some difficulty with my advisor (had to find a new one after a year...long story, can't give any details, let's just say it was really yucky...). My other advisor was really supportive but she was a malacologist (at least she still studied mollusks... but I was pretty much on my own). Other than being poor (I know most graduate students are poor, but the cost of living in Hawaii is really high), I had a great time.

the best part about Hawaii, if you're broke, you can live outside on the beach....here, you'd freeze even in the summer!

Originally posted by Graeme I was also in contact with Richard Young from the University of Hawaii. Does he have anythign to do with the Aquarium at all?


He is retired from the University of Hawaii now (in 2001). He was in the department of Oceanography (my masters is from the Zoology department). I don't think he was affiliated with the aquarium but I am not sure.

Originally posted by Bathypol the best part about Hawaii, if you're broke, you can live outside on the beach....

Yeah, except you have to trip over all those tourists...:yuck: