Found this and thought I'd share. I hope that guy who posted earlier tonight doesn't use it for evil instead of good.

California Coastal Records Project - Image 9041 (http://www.californiacoastline.org/cgi-bin/image.cgi?image=9041&mode=sequential&flags=0&year=2002)

The floating nets in the back are presumably the oyster farms and I assume the octos live either indoors or in the small lagoon to the lower right. There's also some more photos of the area: 9040 is also pretty good.

I'm not a stalker, am I?

Dan

Interesting!

Octopets sent me a pic of their facilities a few years ago - looks like they've grown. Wild bimacs live in the lagoon, from what I understand, and the ones they raise are in tanks.

Nancy

Interesting!

Octopets sent me a pic of their facilities a few years ago - looks like they've grown. Wild bimacs live in the lagoon, from what I understand, and the ones they raise are in tanks.

Nancy

Is Octopets even in business anymore? Their website does not work properly and I sent an email to them and never got a reply.

Is Octopets even in business anymore? Their website does not work properly and I sent an email to them and never got a reply.

The web site looks ok to me (well, I just went to the first page, and clicked on the bimac pic and got to a pricing page, but it worked that far.)

They are known to be kinda bad about responding to queries sometimes (overworked, understaffed is the usual explanation).

I'm having trouble getting to their detailed pages too. I think Monty's right, but I suspect the only part of the business he has trouble with is the retail side. Even if he stopped that I imagine he would still supply octopuses to fishsupply, liveaquaria, etc etc.

Dan

The web site looks ok to me (well, I just went to the first page, and clicked on the bimac pic and got to a pricing page, but it worked that far.)

They are known to be kinda bad about responding to queries sometimes (overworked, understaffed is the usual explanation).

The website appears fine until you try to order anything then you get database errors. On top of that you cannot see any detailed information that you used to be able to get to.

Any other outlets for cultured octopi? I was really hoping to get a baby cultured bimac in the near future and now I am sad as I dont know where else to get one!

Fish Supply is a good source and they handle the Octopets bimacs. Right now they're showing none available on the website.

Nancy

Fishsupply told me last week they're expecting sellable stock any day now. Every few weeks we'll hear mention from someone here or on RC who called one of the places and has some info. Perhaps there's enough interest to warrant a bimac availability sticky thread?

Dan

or any species for that matter ive been trying to get a briareus for a while now and cant seem to find one

I would never presume to be able to keep track of briareus availability because I would question any LFS' identification.

I think it is lost on many that the nature of wild-caught octos means it is a crapshoot to get anything, much less a specific species at a particular store (or ten particular stores, for that matter). I don't think there's a way to keep track of who has what.

With captive bred bimacs, however, there are verifiable populations that are coming mature at predictable times going to known retailers. You can say that "Liveaquaria got a bag of eggs from Octopets last week...should have some available for sale in 8 weeks" or "heavy rains in Carlsbad wiped out brood stock...probably no new bimacs for 3-5 months."

Dan

Have you checked out Google Maps? Here's Octopets there:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=+4600+Carlsbad+Blvd,+carlsbad,+ca&t=k&ll=33.139695,-117.339371&spn=0.003787,0.010214&t=k

Doesn't look like they have the super hi-res images (you should be able to zoom in twice more). For my house, I can make out the cars in my driveway! :shock:

octopet is gone, jimmy moved to do some research on other animals. just wanted to let you know, i used to work for him, but he has moved on. i dont know if carlsbad aquafarm will continue to grow octopuss but probally not. just wanted to let you guys know. jimmy might still have some in tanks where hes moving to but he might

http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline_Archives/panic-button.jpg

AGHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

houston we have a proublem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, nooooo.....not back to wild caught bimacs again :sad:
Now I understand why my calls weren't returned.

I wonder whether we at Tonmo will have to take up the slack and try to raise our own bimacs and other large-egged species.

I'll do some more investigation and see what I can find out.

Nancy

This is quite a blow to the octopus hobby. I'm still a bit shaken up about it.

Right now I believe that my system is capable of raising a festoon of eggs with the addition of 10 little critter cages. If I remember correctly baby bimacs will take 'pods directly and don't need rotifers or mysids like baby bandensis? My LFS is octo-friendly, and I bet I could talk them into taking the extras when they outgrow the cages, or if there was demand I could ship them off to TONMO'ers.

I know that actual breeding is something that I can't bite off, but I think this would be a start if we could find a source of eggs. Unfortunately that part will probably be the problem. I'm sure we could find an LFS/diver who could obtain eggs, but I don't know when egg-laying season is. I'll have to do my investigations this weekend.

Nancy--please report back as soon as you hear anything!

Dan

I hope there is someone else producing baby bi-macs as this has shattered my hope of getting a baby octo and having it around for awhile!!

Does anyone know of any place that may produce and then sell to dealers? I notice there are a few places that list "captive born bi-mac" for sale. Did they all come from Octopets or are there others?

They all come from Octopets.

Thats bad. They owe me a bunch of money since last year and haven't returned emails or phone calls. Suck.

The voicemail box is full and has been for months. Its really pretty awful, they sent me an email saying they got the eggs I shipped, but never sent payment.

Ouch! Octopets invoices ususally say Carlsbad Aquafarm right on them. Have you called the head of the Aquafarm--I bet you he'd be the guy to get your money from if Jim is MIA.

This all seems so strange. One day things are going great, company is going to start breeding cuttlefish, then he just falls right off the face of the earth.

Dan

IF true this is a huge loss for the cephalapod community.
and for me as well having purchased both Megas (my bimac) and Zim (my cuttle) from Octopets I was looking forward to many years of Ceph keeping secure in the knowledge that none were wild harvested. The question I have is.. What now? Is there room for a supply of Cephs? I suggest that some one with ocean access do a feasability study on Ceph raising. Becasue lets face it. We would have all paid 60$ 90$ 100$ 120$ or more for our Octopus. It should not be to hard to come up with a cost that makes a profit. As the only supply of Farm Raised Octos for most of the country you could set the price at what ever you wanted and get it.

The question I have is.. What now? Is there room for a supply of Cephs? I suggest that some one with ocean access do a feasability study on Ceph raising. Becasue lets face it. We would have all paid 60$ 90$ 100$ 120$ or more for our Octopus. It should not be to hard to come up with a cost that makes a profit. As the only supply of Farm Raised Octos for most of the country you could set the price at what ever you wanted and get it.

I don't think you could ever write a decent business plan to farm cephs for the hobby trade. Starting a business is difficult. I bet it would be more like $200-300 per octo, and at that price you wouldn't sell any. The arrival of Octopets was just shear luck: an employee of an aquaculture business who could use the company's resources.

If we see aquacultured bimacs again in the near future (assuming the Carlsbad Aquafarm does stop producing them), it'll be a basement operation that produces more enjoyment than profit.

Dan

Ok, a few comments:

I know some of you out there have interacted with Jim directly-- do any of you know him well enough that you could speak with him directly and get his side of the story?

Perhaps, since the setup already exists, someone could convince the Aquafarm management to continue the project somehow-- they presumably still have the setup and hopefully, even if Jim is gone, there is enough knowledge around to continue the work.

It sounds like this is an opportunity for motivated people to step up to the plate, and make a stand for bimac aquaculture being something we care about enough to really make it happen, because we think octopus keeping is important, and it's a resource that the cephalopod aquariasts need, and it's an opportunity to make the aquarium animal market more sustainable and environmentally sound, and for all sorts of reasons that I'm sure many of you can think of more than I.

What would that take and what can we do to start movement?

I think it would be a good idea to talk to the Aquafarm people and, if possible, Jim, and find out whether they are completely decided on getting out of the ceph pets business or whether they might continue, or at least help out. It also might be worthwhile to look into other possible funding sources-- perhaps the Packard foundation or some environmental group has some sort of grant program that could be applied to this sort of business-- we could probably argue that it's worth as small "sustainable fisheries research" grant even though it's a bit atypical for that, but sometimes, particularly for small grants, the committees that allocate money like atypical, if for no other reason than it relieves the monotony. Does the NRCC have any interest in supporting the pet trade in cephs somehow?

If using the Octopets facility is out of the question, where else might such an octo/cuttle farm be set up? How far up the west coast do bimacs normally go? If one set something up in Monterey, would that be too cold for them? How about Arcata or Portland or Seattle? Presumably, having a coastal location would be far preferable.

Obviously, I'm just shooting from the hip here, and never having actually kept even a single octopus, I can't really make this happen, but from what I've seen of the folks around TONMO, I think there is a real possibility that there is critical mass for us to make this happen somehow. And do have some experience in encouraging people to take the step from "it would be good if..." to "we are going to make this happen..."

Does this sound like a good direction to anyone else, or do I just sound like a raving madman?

:alarm: is as close as I can find to a "call to arms" or "play charge on the bugle" smilie....

Good, constructive words, Monty.

This probably borders on gossip, but here is my understanding of Octopets and Aquafarm. Much of this is conjecture: Aquafarm is a profitable, environmentally conscious company whose manager has encouraged his employees/partners to use company resources to explore sustainable use: the fruits of this have been Jim's octo-pets and the abalones that I believe are managed by yet another person at the company. For whatever reason Jim has left the company.

It should be noted that the Octopets site is still up, the only thing that has changed is the pages you could order online from have been removed. Perhaps the fact that effort was made to take down part of the site but not all of it should encourage us. Perhaps not.

I think Monty has a great idea that we should get in touch with Aquafarm. Let them know that there is a market for this. Over the last 18 months the price of an Octopet has gone from $25 to $45. We should let them know we think its completely fair to pay $50 or $60 for a CB bimac. Right now I'd beg and plead to pay someone $50 or $60 for a CB bimac. Someone there must have been paying attention to what Jim was doing with the octos!

I believe bimacs live up to the Monterey area but I'm not sure. Certainly not up in Seattle. If I lived in coastal California I already would have bought a few 100 gallon stock tanks to start an operation. As I said before, I believe I'm capable of raising little guys from eggs right now(If I could get some) but I know that keeping more than one long term adult--much less breeding--is out of my league.

Dan

Yes, let's not assume the worst just yet.

I have Jim's personal cellphone number and I've tried a number of times over the past few weeks to reach him, with no luck. I left messages, too.

I've always wondered how any money was made on the Octopets project and assumed it was a labor of love. Jim seemed to really like his bimacs - for instance, he told me how some of them liked to be petted. However, I told Jim several times that I thought his prices were too low.

Let's try to find out what's going on. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to make any calls today, but tomorrow and Monday I'll see what I can find out.

You're right -this may be the time for some of us to think of breeding octopuses or at least raising octo hatchlings. More about that later.

As far as the range of bimacs, it's supposed to up the California coast, but not as far as Monterey - and south to Baja.

And a final word - people think that they'll have a bimac longer by buying a young one from Octopets, but in fact our wild caught ones actually lived a bit longer. Don't know why.

Nancy

My above understanding of the Aquafarm is based on a few internet and news articles I found on Google. They seem to be a very environmentally-aware company.

It has to be a pretty emotional time. If you can get through to him I hope he'll be interested in helping us with our efforts. Caring for octos is what he has in common with all of us. Maybe he would enjoy writing an article about the best ways to raise them from eggs, and the best times and places to get eggs.

Dan

This is really depressing. I just got my tank cycled and was about to buy my bimac!

Maybe someone here has been successfully raising eggs and would like to sell young bimacs to others in this situation.

I notice that Fish Supply (a reliable store) has on its website that they now have wild caught octos, but I haven't been able to talk to anyone yet to get the details.

Nancy

Thanks for the updat, Nancy. I'm also going to give them a call on Monday. Jack knows the buiness, andmay even be able to chime in on what's going on with Jim, Assuming Jack is still working at fish supply.

I might call Monday, too, just for details about their wild caught octos. Size, species, price, availability, etc. I'm much more ambivalent about plucking something from the wild though to put it in a tank, however.

Dan

Wow...Somehow I missed this news about Octopets. I sure hope someone is inspired to pick up where Jim left off. I wonder what has happened to all the existing stock? Ink came from octopets. Really hope it doens't go completely under.

Carol

if there is anyone in the area, who could buy up some of the old octo's still there, i would sponsor one or two, would it be possible to buy octopets remaing stock?

I think you'd have to call the aquafarm directly about that. If there is remaining stock, I would think Fish Supply would be happy to have it.

Dan

If Fish Supply or some other group didn't take the remaining stock (assuming there was any), then putting the bimacs back in the ocean right next to Octopets would be very easy. There are already bimacs living there.

Nancy

Any news from Fish Supply?

Hi all,

I was able to talk with someone at Fish Supply today and this is what I learned.

First of all, Jack, who was our octopus contact person, no longe works there. David is the new contact person.

Although they won't mention names, they say that the bimac breeder (this has to be Octopets or the successor) will be providing them with bimacs in a few weeks. In the meantime they have "Bali Octopuses
, whatever species that is. The one they just had in had eyespots and looked something like a bimac. It was 3-4 inches long. They intend to continue offering the "Bali Octopus" along with the aquacultured bimac in addition, they have blue rings - I told them I was surprised that they would carry blue rings. This is a change for them.

You can pre-order an octopus and they will contact you before they ship to make sure you'll be home to receive it. Your credit card is not charged until that time, either.

So, what this seems to mean is that bimacs are continuing to be bred, but we don't know whether there is still a retail outlet at Octopets or whether they'll sell through LFSs. Fish Supply has the advantage of being physically very near the Octopets site and I believe the bimacs have been mostly transported by car to the store, so stress is minimized.

I'm determined to find out what's going on with Octopets, so stay tuned for another report.

Nancy

Thanks for the news, Nancy.

Was it acknowledged in your conversation that there was an issue with the "breeder?" When I emailed them about availability two weeks ago, they said essentially the same thing, "we're expecting some in stock in the next few weeks." If the worst were true (ie, no cb bimacs) one might construe that Fish Supply still thinks they're waiting on a shipment that's a little late.

I don't know if I trust their "bali" octopus. It seems like this is a blanket name distributors give to octopus in lieu of understanding their taxonomy. If it comes to returning to wild-caught octos, I'd feel a lot better if they had a local diver getting things.

Dan

Thanks Nancy -- good to know. I had been trying to reach Jim myself about 5 months ago... we had active correspondence going on, and they suddenly dropped off. Let me know via email/PM any new contacts as you get them, thanks!

Thanks Nancy! Hopefully someone is going to pick up the ball, and run with it!

Latest update - I'm trying to contact the head of the Carlsbad Aquafarm, the big aquafarming concern of which Octopets was a part.

I did talk with someone else based on the Carlsbad property who provides various species for research. He believes that Jim has left, but that the aquafarm may continue the bimac breeding.

I'll try to find out more tomorrow.

Nancy

Latest update - I'm trying to contact the head of the Carlsbad Aquafarm, the big aquafarming concern of which Octopets was a part.

I did talk with someone else based on the Carlsbad property who provides various species for research. He believes that Jim has left, but that the aquafarm may continue the bimac breeding.

I'll try to find out more tomorrow.

Nancy

Any update on this?

I had left a message at the Aquafarm and someone returned my call and gave me a new phone number for Jim at Octopets, but it turned out to be the same one I have.

Will try again on Monday.

Nancy

Thanks for your persistence on this Nancy... looking forward to finding a reliable source here.

I had left a message at the Aquafarm and someone returned my call and gave me a new phone number for Jim at Octopets, but it turned out to be the same one I have.

Will try again on Monday.

Nancy,

If it seems appropriate in the conversation (and assuming the worst) you might ask if they would be receptive to some of us contacting them about eggs. Since there is presumably a population of bimacs in their lagoon, maybe someone there would be willing to grab a festoon next time they're in the water and send them out, or at least have a lead on someone who might.

Dan

edit: PS Tony, I like the new buttons!

Here are where they are raised, outdoors. Sea horses are indoors, along with the bivalve purging area. The dock is above the octo bins. Wild Bimacs are on the lagoon on the left. The right is a water processing area for the powerplant i believe. Fast moving water, probley little to no octos in there. Clams and Oysters are also in the left lagoon. Abalone in the bins north of octos.

Travis, thank you for posting this photo and explanation of how Octopets is (or was :sad: ) set up. This is the best view of the facilities posted so far. It's easy to see that the bimacs didn't have far to go when they made their great escape last year!

Dan, I will ask about eggs and any other ways we can get bimacs. We still don't know whether Octopets is really gone, whether Jim is raising bimacs elsewhere, or whether Aquafarms is continuing the work.

I'm also going to talk with someone else at Fish Supply, who may know more.

Nancy

Dan, I will ask about eggs and any other ways we can get bimacs. We still don't know whether Octopets is really gone, whether Jim is raising bimacs elsewhere, or whether Aquafarms is continuing the work.

Thanks, Nancy. Hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.

Dan

Today I reached the Manager at Fish Supply who is in contact with Octopets. He said that Octopets is still breeding, that the octos are very young and they expect to be carrying the tank bred bimacs in a couple of months.

There were some language difficulties and I couldn't make out whether it was Jim raising the bimacs or whether it was the Aquafarm, but whatever, this person seemed sure that we'd have tank bred bimacs eventually.

Nancy

Well, that's good news! The time frame is a little disappointing, but I've waited this long :wink:

Are you still planning on calling the Aquafarm to get the lowdown on whether its them or Jim?

Dan

Yes, I'm going to find out for sure what the situation is.

Nancy