Studies of predation damage in Palaeozoic brachiopods have uncovered unidentifiable drill holes. Were nautiloids responsible?

Original report (http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/studien/bericht-45531.html)

Interesting article. But don't you think that's more of a gastropod mode of attack? Then again, how do nautiloids eat?

Could well be John. Octopus certainly leave drill holes in shells, I'm not sure how similar the radula was on a nautiloid to that of octopus though. They probably pretty much ate anything smaller than them and scurrying I'd imagine. Ordovician trilobites needed their defensive spines for some reason, and nautiloids were top predator...

Yeah, that is a good point. The Burgess Shale is full of pointy, spiky forms. Even ancient chitons had some nasty looking spines.

John

To chip in here (:grin:) those holes look just like the ones we see in bivalves from our local oyster borer (Lepsiella scobina). It just looks gastropodish to me.

J

I just had to check the no box. Why would anything spend the time to drill into a brachiopod? There is nothing (very little anyway) inside!

While it could be a nautiloid, The holes don't seem right. Cephalopods drill bivalve shells in order to inject a venom that will kill or atleast nearly kill the animal inside, put them pull the shell and eat from the opened shell. This means that the hole needs to only be a pin prick. drilling as small of whole as you need with a radula will generally produce an oval drill. These holes seem to be more rounded and larger than one would expect from a hole merely intended for venom injection. This appears to be more like a gastropod drill, which feed through the hole rather than pulling the shell. This probably is not gastrood either, however, as drilling gastropods aren't thought to have evolved untill 110 million years ago, formly in the Mesozoic, long after these poor brachiopods met their fate.

ooooooooh the mystery drill!!! I wonder what our photoshop guru's can do with that!!!!

J

Methinks this paper cited below help us this case. Unfortunately it would cost a subscription to obtain it. Is there anyone out there who could gain a free copy via an educational institution who could help please?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111%2F1475-4983.00065

Hi Phil,

Got it but it's too big to put on here (it's a 1.34 meg pdf file) I'll email it to you!

J

http://www.cephdev.utmb.edu/refdb/pdf/7834.pdf

http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2005AM/finalprogram/abstract_91970.htm

http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0108b&L=conch-l&F=&S=&P=489

http://www.geol.vt.edu/paleo/Kowalewski_etal_2000.pdf

http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?request=get-document&issn=0883-1351&volume=017&issue=03&page=0292

http://www.geol.vt.edu/paleo/Kowalewski_etal_1998.pdf

http://www.rsnz.org/publish/nzjmfr/1991/28.pdf

http://marine.alaskapacific.edu/octopus/museum.html

It has been a slow day at work so I did this small lit search looking for pictures of shells drilled by a cephalopods. The last link has some pics, though small, its hard to see the shape of the drill hole. Anyone got a picture of a hole drilled by an octopus? Too bad I already voted, I just might change my mind :hmm:

...nice thread guys!

/clicks to give it a 5-star rating

AMIKUQ
The Giant Octopus in Prince William Sound & Cook Inlet (http://marine.alaskapacific.edu/octopus/EXPEDITION%20Amikuq.php)

Near the bottom of the page above is a sketch of a drill hole made by the GPO, looks a little different than those in the brachiopods. Like Taollan said, just a small penetration of the shell is needed. Since the radula of paleozoic nautiloids was somewhat like ammonoids, and that of ammonoids had a more or less distinct similarity to that of octopods I will stand by my no vote. :smile: unless new data proves otherwise :roll:

As between them, Jean & Kevin must pretty much know everything I'm going for "no". Not very scientific I know but I'm oddsing it in light of my ignorance.

Keef

As between them, Jean & Kevin must pretty much know everything I'm going for "no". Not very scientific I know but I'm oddsing it in light of my ignorance.

Keef

MWAHAHAHAHAHA! fooled you all 'cackle':twisted:

Thanks for the kind words Keef but I actually know very little about these prehistoric beasties I just reckon that hole looks like what our whelks do to our clams!!!

J

I was not aware cephs had a radula like other mulluscs, although this should have been evident. Again i learn something new from tonmo.:grad:

MWAHAHAHAHAHA! fooled you all 'cackle':twisted:

Thanks for the kind words Keef but I actually know very little about these prehistoric beasties I just reckon that hole looks like what our whelks do to our clams!!!

J

Jean, exactly my point ! Kevin does the old stuff (sorry, and Sir Phil of Folkestone) & you can do the comparisons with the new stuff, so modest.

Keef

The only way to know anything at all about the "old stuff" is to study and understand the "new stuff" :grad:

As an aside, Phil, you're the archaeologist, is there a good way to determine that ancient people did'nt drill those holes (other than they were probably not found in an archaeological context and probably were found in a paleontological one)? Maybe i've just seen too many drilled trilobites lately :cyclops:

Kevin, I've only just noticed that you've been promoted, well done Sir ! :thumbsup:
Make sure Tony pays the going rate as Phil is apparently on phat bucks :twocents:

Keef

The only way to know anything at all about the "old stuff" is to study and understand the "new stuff" :grad:

As an aside, Phil, you're the archaeologist, is there a good way to determine that ancient people did'nt drill those holes (other than they were probably not found in an archaeological context and probably were found in a paleontological one)? Maybe i've just seen too many drilled trilobites lately :cyclops:

Well, I'm not Phil!!!!!!!!!! nor an archaeologist (although I did do 2 semesters!) but my :twocents: I would think that for a human to drill through would be a waste of time when they could just bash it with a rock or prise it open with flint or other shells. whaddaya reckon?????


J

me take rock me smash shell-thing

me take rock me smash shell-thing



:grin: UGGGG!

I found this picture of a drill hole from a predatory snail, Chione erosa from the Pliocene. Looks a lot like the brachiopod drill marks.

Thanks for the pictures cuttlegirl, the holes look like they were made by the same driller. :smile:

By Jean: Well, I'm not Phil!!!!!!!!!! nor an archaeologist (although I did do 2 semesters!) but my I would think that for a human to drill through would be a waste of time when they could just bash it with a rock or prise it open with flint or other shells. whaddaya reckon?????

I was thinking about people drilling holes in the fossil (long after the nutritional value of the brachiopod had disappeared and the shell had fossilized) so they could be strung together like beads. If they were to bash it with a rock, they would have alot more pieces to drill holes in :wink:

By Spartacus: Kevin, I've only just noticed that you've been promoted, well done Sir !
Make sure Tony pays the going rate as Phil is apparently on phat bucks

Am I supposed to be getting paid :shock:

Phil told me that it's moderating on Tonmo that enables him to run his new Jag , honest !

Keef

Phil told me that it's moderating on Tonmo that enables him to run his new Jag , honest !

Keef

Er...no. I've got a very nice TONMO mug which holds about six pints of tea, but that's it. Unless I can run a Jaguar on Earl Gray, I'm not going very far I'm afraid.

I was thinking about people drilling holes in the fossil (long after the nutritional value of the brachiopod had disappeared and the shell had fossilized) so they could be strung together like beads. If they were to bash it with a rock, they would have alot more pieces to drill holes in

Slightly off topic but there is a British Archaeological Report (BAR series) that I've been trying to track down which records the use the use of ammonites and other fossils in such a manner. I'm sure I once read of a find of ammonites in an Anglo-Saxon grave, possibly in Norfolk, that had drilled in order to be threaded. (Please don't quote me on that though, I could be wrong, and I can't substantiate it at present!).

I found this picture of a drill hole from a predatory snail, Chione erosa from the Pliocene. Looks a lot like the brachiopod drill marks.

I see what you mean, very interesting. Maybe something similar was the culprit? Thanks for digging out the image.

This link may be of some interest as it shows a cross section of a drill mark with a central boss in a Oligocene gastropod:

http://caribjsci.org/aug03/39_221_223.pdf

I was thinking about people drilling holes in the fossil (long after the nutritional value of the brachiopod had disappeared and the shell had fossilized) so they could be strung together like beads. If they were to bash it with a rock, they would have alot more pieces to drill holes in :wink:

True and of course we will go to far more effort for adornment rather than for mere food! I have a pic somewhere of a 35,000 year (I think)old grave where two children had been buried in ceremonial (?) clothes that were covered in thousands of beads made from shell and mammoth ivory. The work that went into the creation of the beads was incredible.

So yeah brachiopod beads would be right up there!

J