This morning while watching CBS they have discovered a new jellyfish called Big Red. It was awesome. Has anyone else seen the footage on this beautiful creature. Very Fasinating and cool :rainbow:

hi Deb,

No, I missed the footage unfortunately! this story is also being discussed here:

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=541

Fascinating...it always amazes me that in the time I have been involved in the animal kingdom, new species(to us) keep on appearing...makes one rather humble does it not?
Greg
p.s. they were even showing the footage on our local news...go figure!

I seen in on CBS this morning!

I get up at 5 AM here and at that time Sky News somtimes shows American news channels.... weird that i seen that today too :? :bugout:

C

Hello all,

For the sake of full disclosure, I ought to say that I hate giant jellyfish. On my life's list of Animals That Make Me Ill, they rank quite high: somewhere between pelagic neudebranchs and sea lampreys.

Having said that, this giant jelly has set me to thinking about our old pal Architeuthis. If the GS is in fact a drifting, "ambush" predator, jellies like "Big Red" would make a wonderful meal, requiring little energy expenditure to capture, masticate and digest. And then, there's Architeuthis' ability to produce an enzyme that neutralizes paralytic nerve agents. That ability would be useful if one were preying on animals that subdue their own prey with neurotoxins.

:?:

Clem
Jellyfish hater since 1974

My wife is on your page...had a set of strands whip her across her back and legs in florida, and has disliked them ever since...oh well. Interesting point about the toxicity/invulnerability, but how prevalent are these large jellies?
Greg
p.s. I wonder if they taste like chicken?

p.s. I wonder if they taste like chicken?

Now that's just...I mean...the last thing I want to imagine is...ugh.

I was suggesting that jellies in general might be prey items for Architeuthis, with Big Red being a particularly tasty meal. The guys who named it have an online article, somewhere; I doubt they have much of a clue as to how common Red might be, but certainly more of a clue than I've got. Not too common, I hope. :goofysca:

Clem

I was suggesting that jellies in general might be prey items for Architeuthis, with Big Red being a particularly tasty meal. The guys who named it have an online article, somewhere; I doubt they have much of a clue as to how common Red might be, but certainly more of a clue than I've got. Not too common, I hope. :goofysca:

Clem,

Stranger things have happened... I do know that the Leatherback Turtle Dermochelys coriacea grows to a gigantic size (almost 3m long) on a diet almost exclusively consisting of jellies. And the protien content of jellies is low.... REALLY low... The amount of jellies that would have to be eaten is astounding.

Jelly-eaters tend to eat by sucking in their prey. Leatherbacks have "spines" in the throats which point toward the stomach, therefore assuring that the jellies take a one-way trip.

I don't think Archi eats jellies, but stranger things have happened...

Sushi and Sake,

John

Although I've only looked at the crop contents of one Haliphron atlanticus (the giant gelatinous octopus), they were full of some sort of jelly - so full that they had to have been eaten (rather than accidentally ingested). Also, juveniles of the pelagic octopuses Tremoctopus and Ocythoe are associated with jellys, the male of Ocythoe even living inside a salp.

Jellys haven't been reported from Architeuthis gut samples (though lots of other things have been), so I would doubt that they are eaten by this animal.
O

Hello Steve,

Any thoughts about the potential utility of anti-neurotoxin enzymes in Archi? If not to tolerate ingested jellies, then maybe to protect against the effects of being stung by them? Drifting through a jelly swarm could really screw up one's day.

:roll:

Clem

I thought that nematocysts were only stimulated by a non-slimy coating...so a squid should be ok as far as swimming into them, but perhaps I am incorrect?
Greg
p.s. the chicken ref. was in light of the old joke...
Game ranger arrests a guy for eating a spotted owl at his campsight. On the drive back to the station, he asks the offender a question.." I have to ask this...what does a spotted owl taste like?"
The guy responds,"well, to be honest...kind of like a cross between a peregrine falcon and a bald eagle."

I know. It is old...oh well.

I thought that nematocysts were only stimulated by a non-slimy coating...so a squid should be ok as far as swimming into them, but perhaps I am incorrect?

Sounds good to me. Since I posted that query, I've read an article in todays paper about sea lions poisoned by domoic acid, a neuro-toxin produced by a species of plankton. The sea lions ingest fish and molluscs that can safely feed on the plankton, and get sick from secondary poisoning. Maybe that's why Architeuthis has that neutralizing enzyme: to prevent poisoning by planktonic neurotoxins ingested by its prey items.

As for the jelly-eating idea, I admit that I enjoy the thought that one of my favorite animals would eat one of my least favorite animals.
:heee:
Clem

Bringing this back to one of my favorite topics, food -

Clem, could humans be a favorite animal to eat one of your least favorites?

Jellyfish aren't bad eating, but they take flavor more from what's with them (usually sesame oil) and bring their own chewy texture. Not like chicken. I have only had jellies prepared in Chinese restaurants, but I found jellyfish in a Chinatown market on Friday and may try this at home.

They'd be less enjoyable if you tried to eat them in leatherback sea turtle proportions.

I like to see jellies but I've been fortunate enough to have only two very mild stings a decade apart.

Melissa

Melissa,

I'd have to be tricked into eating jellyfish, and never clued in to the gag, otherwise I would make a scene. Hollering and profanity would ensue. Things would be thrown.

That said, I heartily endorse your eating "Tofu of the Sea." Were I in Chinatown, I'd probably go for the barbecued squid hanging in the windows, then make a hasty exit from Canal St. I never could spend too much time around the fish stalls. The live baby turtles depressed the hell out of me.

Please let me know how the jellyfish-fry works out.

Yours truly,

Clem

I've had pickled jellyfish :yuck:


The director of our aquarium has adventurous tastebuds and instists we all do too! These were revolting slimy, salty and a fairly strong musty flavour. Course that may have to do with the preserving process but I'm not game to try other varieties.

J

Thanks, Jean, for that detailed descr- Clem? ... CLEM?!
Uh oh... someone call 911...

;)

"Umm, Jean? Remember those pickled jellyfish I made you guys eat? Well, wouldn't you just know it, but I've had a squiz at the jar, and some bugger went and switched up the specimen labels on me. Nothing to worry about, they were jellyfish, and they were "pickled," technically speaking..."

:yuck:

Hey guys...I was trying to eat my breakfast...cripes! :shock:

Howdy Folks!

Two Cent trivia :twocents: : Some nudibranchs (yes, back to the subject of molluscs! :P ) eat anemones and actually transfer untriggered nematocysts to their skin to use as weapons. Kick-booty!

Oh, and I have had jellyfish salad... Nothing to write home about, but I've had worse. Like beef liver :yuck: .. Two words about my experience with beef liver: "projectile" and ... Well, I'll spare you the next one...

Sushi and Sake, but hold the Tako-Yaki,

John

I have not, to my knowledge, eaten or in any way consumed a jellyfish...but you never know! At a roadside stand in Akumal (yucatan) there was a vendor selling tacos...you could buy chicken tacos, beef tacos, pork tacos(?), fish tacos, or....."meat" tacos. Go figure...but I bet it purred or barked!
Greg

i dunno....i always thought fish tacos sounded kind of sketchy to me, the pork doesnt surprise me.... the only question is whether the mystery meat was significantly cheaper than the others....

actually, a good fish taco can be really, really good...and a bad one is horrible! and yes, the "meat " tacos were much less (50%) than the others...the pork taco was the one that bothered me...I never saw any pigs in the yucutan...hmmm.
Greg

On my life's list of Animals That Make Me Ill, they rank quite high: somewhere between pelagic neudebranchs....



Hey dude, watch yer beak -- my cousins are beautiful, and Poseidon help the hominid who says otherwise:

http://www.batnet.com/seeandsea/animals/bpics/rsdncr_b.jpg

I bet all you clumsy mammals wish you looked that good when you dance!

Tanijinsky
Prima Ballerina, PEERLESS
(People for the Exaltation of Entities Resembling Loathsome Exudates of Slimy Snot)

Hey, I found some video footage of Big Red:

Big Red Video (http://www.local6.com/entertainment/2288081/detail.html)

Instructions: Click the video image link on the left side of the page. Then, in the pop-up window, use the horizontal scroll bar to scroll all the way to the right. The Big Red footage is the last one.

Get to this fast, I have a feeling the site will be removing this soon.

Hey, I found some video footage of Big Red:

Big Red Video (http://www.local6.com/entertainment/2288081/detail.html)

Instructions: Click the video image link on the left side of the page. Then, in the pop-up window, use the horizontal scroll bar to scroll all the way to the right. The Big Red footage is the last one.

Get to this fast, I have a feeling the site will be removing this soon.

Oh boy, Clem's gonna be thrilled about this one.... :mrgreen:

Frankly I think the critter is rather beautiful. I also played the one about Frieda the Jar-Opening Octopus, but I'm confused as to why this is "news".... are we the only people in the world who knew for several years that Octos could do this? Even THE PLANET'S FUNNIEST ANIMALS (Animal Planet's answer to AMERICA'S FUNNIEST HOME VIDEOS) showed a Jar-Opening Octopus video several weeks ago.

:?

Get to this fast, I have a feeling the site will be removing this soon.

Good.

theyre coming to get you clem.... :twisted:

http://www.nrdc.org/onearth/02sum/jelly1.asp

http://www.mbari.org/news/news_releases/2003/nr03-matsumoto.html

That's straight from the folks that named it. I get to go out on their research vessel in a couple of weeks. I'll keep an eye out for squid. I like them better than those damn jelly things too. Big red isn't too bad though. At least it's not transparent.

"In photographs, it looks like a big red spaceship cruising the ocean depths. "

coming to abduct a certain TONMO member..... :twisted:

we should take the symbolism thread off on a tangent and psychoanalyze mr. clem and his distaste for our transparent friends.....

because sometimes a jelly just isnt a jelly :)

:cthulhu: :heart: :beer:

we should take the symbolism off on a tangent and psychoanalyze mr. clem and his distaste for our transparent friends.....

Let's don't. Why don't I just tell you?

In 1974, I went to stay in a cottage in Maine with my parents and grandmother. It rained for the four days we were there, rained through fog. I'd never fished before, and my dad showed me how to do it from a small dock near the cottage. I caught and landed a mackerel, and was delighted until I saw the blood coming from the gills. It wasn't what I wanted, and I could feel the hook myself, so I insisted we let it go. It was a goner by then, but it twitched when it hit the water, and kept twitching as it sank, so I felt a little better.

The next day, we went for a walk on the shoreline, and the tide had left dead jellyfish on the rocks. They reminded me of the fish I killed, and I started crying again, and climbed up my dad's shoulders because I wasn't convinced those jellies were dead. I was, however, convinced that they could jump.

Nothing fancy, there. Sorry.

:roll:

Clem

dang....that a bummer....both for you and for the hopes that it would be a bit more irrational.... i think the irrational stuff is the most interesting about a person..... :|

plus i feel quasi-finkish for dragging up....

I get to go out on their research vessel in a couple of weeks. I'll keep an eye out for squid.
Awesome! Please do report back to us land-lubbers about your excursion!

I like them better than those damn jelly things too. Big red isn't too bad though. At least it's not transparent.

Still, if you see one, do me a favor and kick it squah in the ****.

"In photographs, it looks like a big red spaceship cruising the ocean depths. "

coming to abduct a certain TONMO member..... :twisted:


OMG, is that my punishment for cross-posting to multiple forums? I'd better behave from now on! :P

Jared: How much of a bribe would it take for me to stow away on the ship?

Clem: Don't feel bad about the jellyfish thing. While I am not afraid of insects, spiders, or snakes (except venomous ones), I have a completely irrational aversion to centipedes. I don't even mind millipedes, but there's something about centipedes that grosses me out and scares me simultaneously. Yes, I know they're useful in getting rid of roaches and other small vermin, but I'll rely on spiders, praying mantises, and ladybugs to take care of that, thank you very much!

I've never been bitten by a centipede, or had one fall from the ceiling into my mouth :yuck: , it's just that IMHO they don't seem to have much redeeming social value. Spiders and snakes have traditionally been powerful spiritual totems in cultures all around the world, millipedes look like cute li'l choo-choo trains, and mantises and ladybugs are beautiful to behold. But centipedes are just.... eeeuw!

(Needless to say, I was completely freaked out by the "Amidala's bedchamber" scene in SW: ATTACK OF THE CLONES, and back when the Big Calamari and I used to play video arcade games, the only one at which I excelled was -- what else? -- "Centipede".)

Tani
(who once played with Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches at the Liberty Science Center)

I've never been bitten by a centipede, or had one fall from the ceiling into my mouth :yuck: , it's just that IMHO they don't seem to have much redeeming social value.

When I was 15, one of those little ******* dropped out of a post-shower towel I'd wrapped around my waist. The towel was on for several minutes before the little ******* fell out and landed on my foot, occasioning a moment of weightlessness on my part, followed by a moment of lifelessness on the centipede's part.

Jellies, centipedes and pelagic nudibranchs need not justify their existence. I'd still like to hear an explanation for leeches, however.

:|

Clem

I'd still like to hear an explanation for leeches, however.


everyone who has tried to get rid of them has ended up being sued.... :roll:

Jared: How much of a bribe would it take for me to stow away on the ship?

I'm just a tiny step above the rank of stowaway myself, so I'm probably not the right person to bribe. However, you can keep track of where the ship is and what it's doing here (http://www.mbari.org/cruises/both.asp). I'm still waiting to hear back from the boss. At this point, I don't even know where it is we're supposed to be going. My understanding though is that the ROV tiburon gets used just about every time they go anywhere so hopefully I'll be able to peek over someone's shoulder and spaz out if any cephalopods show up on screen.

When I was 15, one of those little ******* dropped out of a post-shower towel I'd wrapped around my waist. The towel was on for several minutes before the little ******* fell out and landed on my foot, occasioning a moment of weightlessness on my part, followed by a moment of lifelessness on the centipede's part.

Jellies, centipedes and pelagic nudibranchs need not justify their existence. I'd still like to hear an explanation for leeches, however.

:|

Clem

Could've been worse -- can you imagine if it had stayed in the towel? (Uh, better not go there.... :shock: )

I don't swim, so I've never had a bad experience with jellyfish. In fact, I find them extremely relaxing to watch, whether in tanks at the Aquarium or on nature shows (there was one about an inland lagoon somewhere that is completely occupied by them, and it's like 60 minutes of watching a lava lamp with New Age music).

I respectfully disagree with your evaluation of nudibranchs -- I think they are beautiful in their variety, especially the aptly-named Spanish Dancer which looks like a flamenco dancer's skirt billowing in the waves:

http://www.divegallery.com/spanish.htm

(To get the full effect of their graceful "dance", you have to see them in action on a nature program. Magnificent!)

Believe it or not, the antiquated use of leeches in medical treatments has been vindicated by recent research -- though not in the same manner. Leeches are now being used in hospitals to safely and painlessly drain blood-engorged wounds and to encourage circulatory function in reattached extremities. I've heard about this from many sources -- here is one of many online articles regarding this practice:

http://www.hsc.missouri.edu/~news/LEECHES.shtml

Now, if you're talking mosquitos -- that is one species whose raison d'etre is a complete mystery to me. (I suppose if I were a frog I'd feel differently.... )

Ed O'Neill
The Nudie-branch Bar

I'd still like to hear an explanation for leeches, however.


everyone who has tried to get rid of them has ended up being sued.... :roll:

Hey, know why leeches don't feed on lawyers?
Professional courtesy.

(I know it's supposed to be "sharks". So sue me.)

:jester:

Of some interest, a new genus of deep water jelly has been discovered by Monterey Bay researchers. It is unusual as the animal has a bumpy appearance, has four arms but lacks tentacles.

Sorry Clem.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/mbar-nj020304.php

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/files/bumpy_jelly.jpg

Of some interest, a new genus of deep water jelly has been discovered by Monterey Bay researchers. It is unusual as the animal has a bumpy appearance, has four arms but lacks tentacles.

Phil,

Bumpy?

I don't think I can handle the notion of rugose jellies.

:goofysca:

Clem

http://www.mbari.org/news/news_releases/2004/stellamedusa.html

It seems that squid pieces have been used to test the effectiveness of the stinging cells by MB researchers. Nice photo in the link above.

Copy of full text here, enlarged from the microprint on the MB website:

The MBARI researchers named the jelly Stellamedusa ventana. Its genus, Stellamedusa, refers to the jelly's translucent blue-white color and trailing arms, which reminded the scientists of a slow-moving meteor or shooting star. It's species name, ventana, refers to MBARI's remotely operated vehicle (ROV) Ventana, a deep-diving submarine robot that first recorded the jelly on video in 1990. Before they created an official name for this animal, researchers gave this jelly the nickname "bumpy" because it's bell and oral arms are covered with small bumps, which are actually clusters of stinging cells that the jelly uses to capture prey.
Kevin Raskoff, primary author of the paper, says of the new jelly "Although it's highly unusual for a jelly not to have tentacles, several deep-sea species have evolved this way. They have also evolved unusual feeding strategies, which rely on other parts of their body, such as the bell and oral arms, to capture prey." Formerly a postdoctoral researcher at MBARI, Raskoff now teaches at California State University, Monterey Bay.
MBARI researchers have seen S. ventana only seven times during thirteen years of diving. Five of these observations were in Monterey Bay. The other two occurred during an MBARI expedition to the Gulf of California in spring 2003. According to George Matsumoto, co-author of the paper, "This animal still represents a conundrum. At first we thought it might be just a very rare local species, here in Monterey Bay. Then we saw it twice in the Gulf of California, three thousand miles away. We still have no idea of its true range."
The researchers waited years to publish their discovery of this jelly because they wanted to be able to present information about its habits and distribution, as well as its appearance. As Matsumoto put it, "you need enough observations to understand the natural variations in the animal's size and shape. We just didn't have enough information to make any general statements about the animal."
Here is some of what they do know: S. ventana has been observed at depths between 150 and 550 meters (about 500 to 1800 feet), just below the level that sunlight can penetrate, but above a layer of very low oxygen levels. This region is known as the mesopelagic realm, and is the home of entire communities of gelatinous animals. In fact, based on field and lab observations, the researchers believe that this jelly may feed primarily on other jellies.
To study the jelly's eating habits, the researchers placed a captured jelly in a tank with small shrimp and pieces of squid. The shrimp and squid collided with batteries of stinging cells on the jelly's bell and stuck there. The prey then moved slowly down to the edge if the bell. At that point, the jelly transferred the prey to one of its oral arms, where it slowly moved up the arm and into the mouth.
Unlike other jellies who capture food with their bells, S. ventana seemed to prefer prey larger than about 2 cm (3/4 inch). In fact, one individual captured in the Gulf of California had in its gut a ctenophore about 5 cm (2 inches) across. Raskoff speculates that the bumps on the jelly's bell and arms may aid in capturing large pray. "These bumps contain massive batteries of stinging cells, which are good for holding on to prey as well as immobilizing it."
Matsumoto is somewhat surprised that S. ventana has never been described previously or hauled up in nets. "The coast of California is one of the more well-studied parts of the world's oceans, with two major oceanographic institutions dating from the late 1800s. Yet we are still discovering new species there. Who knows what else we might find?" Raskoff adds, "It's heartwarming to know that there's still a lot of mystery in the deep ocean. There are still a lot of big things moving around out there that we don't know about."
Research article citation:
K. A. Raskoff and G. I. Matsumoto, Stellamedusa ventana, a new mesopelagic scyphomedusae from the eastern Pacific representing a new subfamily, the Stellamedusinae. 2004. Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom. 84, 4274/1-6.

I wonder if there is any recorded cases of ocean going jellyfish feeding on live squid? ...shudder.....

What's the biggest known jellyfish? :?: Imagine poor M. hamiltoni or A. dux being consumed by a monster deep sea 30m jellyfish :wink:

Poor Clem.

What's the biggest known jellyfish?
Good question... I'm not sure, but this may be a clue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1786505.stm) (indicates ancient jellyfish of up to 1 meter across)

(a) I think Stellamedusa is a beautiful name.

(b) I think Stellamedusa is a beautiful jellyfish.

"Sorry, Clem."

:madsci:

Oh, okay.

No luck finding soft-body fossils of ammonites, but fossilized meter-wide jellyfish? Sure! No problem! Got them for you right here!

I'm leaving.

Clem

Nature article on the new find:

http://www.nature.com/nsu/040202/040202-17.html

And what is the biggest jellyfish?

In 1865 a giant Lion's Mane jellyfish was found in Massachusetts Bay. The bell, or upper portion of this creature was was 7 1/2 feet and it's tentacles measured 120 feet long and a width of 245 ft..

In 1973, the Motor Vessle Kuranda, collided with a giant jellyfish that was estimated to have weighed 20 tons. The Captain of the Kuranda, Langley Smith, estimated the tentacles length to be over 200 ft in length.

With the aid of another ship, the giant jellyfish was forced off the front of the ship. A sample of the slime left behind was analyzed and found to be from a lion's mane jellyfish. One crew member of the Kudra died during this encounter after being stung by the creature.

In 1969 two divers, working out of Port Royal, encountered a jellyfish that they claimed was 150 to 200 ft in diameter. Were these men "spinnng a tale"? Not likely. In spite of high salaries... both repeatedly refused to dive in the area, ever, again. There also have been reports of giant jellyfish attacking small boats and pursuing divers.

http://wintersteel.homestead.com/files/JamesArticles/Sea_Monsters_Myth_and_Reality.htm

Although I suspect like the largest Giant Squid those sizes aren't confirmed and may be tall tales? ;)

A more reasonable estimate is:

The Lion's Mane Jellyfish can grow to be one of the largest of all jellyfishes. Its disc-shaped bell can be over 1 m across and its trailing tentacles can reach more than 10 m in length.

http://faunanet.gov.au/wos/factfile.cfm?Fact_ID=14

Interesting to see that the giant squid isn't the only denizen of the deep to have such exagertations heaped uopn it ;)

Emps

Thanks, Emps. Lion's Mane scares me when I see it in my field guide, no desire to meet that one in the water!

Melissa

OK, we gave Clem a reprieve of four years. Now, anyone else agree it's time to talk about Ct/Cn again?

I will start with a question:

Are Comb Jellies poisonous or not? The reason is that I've been using the ID Ctenophore on some wordgame sites, and when people ask me the definition I say "A delicate little jellyfish with a powerful sting." Everyone seems to like that.

Now, to my chagrin, I find that nearly all relevant sites say Ctenophores do not have any stinging cells, though a few do mention that they carry some kind of poison. Which is correct? I've always liked the idea of being a shimmering, diaphanous living gem that you don't mess with, but if Ctenos don't pack a punch, then the ID isn't as clever as I thought it would be.

So, what's the definitive answer?

Ctaniphore

"I feel pretty, oh so pretty...."

I think the majority of ctenophores do not have stings (although they are predators) they use a sticky organ called a Colloblast to catch their prey. One ctenophore,Haeckelia eats the stinging tentacles of the hydromedusa Aegina and then retains the nematocysts and uses them in its own defense, this us called kleptocnidae. the book Invertebrates by Brusca & Brusca has a good summary of ctenophores.

J

Hi there Jean -

Thanks for the 411, disheartening though it may be to know that my "battle totem" can't defend itself without pinching weapons from more formidable inverts! (Kleptocnidae conjures up an image of a cteno being cuffed by a security guard, protesting that he just has a psychological problem.... :mrgreen:) But hey, they're still pretty as all getout!

Still on the subject of formidable inverts, just came across this fascinating article posted on the Oceana site:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004284019_sanddollar15m.html

Perhaps my new totem should be this guy:

Haeckelia's strategy is pretty amazing

I have read about a crab (commonly called the boxer or pom-pom crab) that does something similar. It holds stinging anemones in its claws for protection.

I have read about a crab (commonly called the boxer or pom-pom crab) that does something similar. It holds stinging anemones in its claws for protection.

I actually saw that crab in my LFS once, no objects for it to hold though, I really wanted to see that