Hello. I consider myself to be heavily familiar with salt water tanks. Currently I breed clownfish and propogate corals as a sort of hobby/living. Ive come accross people keeping octopus on other forums, and its really starting to intruege me. I've been thinking about getting a unique pet for some time now, but it just hadnt clicked what to get. I wanted a shark but I'd never be able to support a tank large enough for one(on my income). However I've heard octo can be kept in a much smaller enviroment. I would like to keep it in a tank around the size of a 90gallon, that seems the best but I might have to settle for a 55gallon.

So here comes the questions! (highlighted all the questions :) just to make it easy if you dont feel like reading)

What is different about keeping octopus compared to normal reef keeping. What is there to watch out for, and what specific equipment should I rely on? Octopus produce ink when frightened, so should I have a powerful skimmer, maybe go overkill with a couple of skimmers? What temperatures do they like? What kind of fish can I keep in the aquarium with him (I assume very little, maybe really large fish?). What will it eat, I have some very good local fish stores but I really dont have a clue. If I had to order shipments of some sort of feeder fish I would set up a tank for them too. I know I shouldnt keep corals with him, so I wouldnt even try. What kind of lighting and water flow? I assume tons of live rock in the tank.

Any recomended ways to cycle a tank? Assuming that an octopus tank is different and it might need something special. Like high counts of minerals. I'm really shooting in the dark here havnt touched a special creature like this.

I'm probly missing alot... Help me out I really want to get started :)

Just a little addition.

I was wondering if its possible to keep more then one in a tank. Not something I'd consider lightly. But contemplating. Just curious really I suppose.

How would you go about buying one? Would you buy it in egg form or a few weeks old? What are good websites to buy from online. I've looked at http://www.octopets.com , but there is only one species. Is this what I want or can I shop around?

How would you go about buying one? Would you buy it in egg form or a few weeks old? What are good websites to buy from online. I've looked at http://www.octopets.com , but there is only one species. Is this what I want or can I shop around?

This is the one you want!

You sound like you have the means and the patience to keep an octo!

These articles will get you started nicely,

Keeping Cephalopods in Captivity (http://www.tonmo.com/cephcare/keepingcephs/keepingcephs.php)

Things to Think About Before Keeping an Octopus as a Pet (http://www.tonmo.com/cephcare/checklist.php)

Bimac Care Sheet (http://www.tonmo.com/cephcare/BimacCareSheet.php)

Equipment List (http://www.tonmo.com/cephcare/equipment.php)

Ink's Story (http://www.tonmo.com/cephcare/inksstory.php)

Dan

Thanks alot looks like I have alot of reading to do! :) If I have anymore questions after all that I wont hesitate to ask.

Keeping an octo can be as difficult as you want to make it, previously I would run a simple set up with LR, low lighting, a few power heads, prism venturi skimmer, and basic HOB filter... But after learning to keep a reef tank, I plan on running my octo tank just like my reef, well sadly better. Or good... not sure. Using 2 x 65W PC retrofit, 40-60 pounds of Reef Grade Substrate, 50-100 pounds of LR, for a 40G tank. I am using that agrecrete method for the bulk of my base rock, as suggested by www.GARF.org to preserve the natural oceans. Sump/refugium, in tank overflow and such, my point is you have plenty of experience it sound like in tank set up, so run what you would to get a good tank, water quality is everything in a reef and I like to keep that going for a octo tank. Your skimmer should be overboard, however you only do need one, just get one rated for say 100G for a 55G tank, if you keep a Bimac from Octopets, a 55G is perfect. Any fish you keep could get eaten, I kept 3 damsels with my Octo and he was never able to keep them since they are bottom dwellers, the fish are a challenge to keep, mine ate the fish once I took out all the LR and the fish had no where to go since I also took most the water out of the tank/displacement. But I would not keep any big fish, not even medium sized, and if it not reef safe defiantly not. I had a huma huma with an octo, and literally scared the octo to death. Water quality should be kept the same as a normal reef tank; salinity should be a little higher, with a SG of around 1.025 or so. Temp the lower the better but you should not need a chiller. 72-80 is acceptable but will shorted the life the hotter it is. Flow should be about 10x the tank capacity, lighting is up to you, don’t do MH though, but Bimacs are shallow water species so they can tolerate enough light to grow some xenias, and shrooms and such, no acrapora, since that requires MH... right? Feeding them is expensive, feed only marine animals, no freshwater. Fiddlers, shrimp, clams, are best sources of energy, live food only when young, and if you can afford it, ALWAYS. It can be collected from the local beaches if you’re on the coast. Cycle as normal, toss some damsels in there to get it going, wait a while fro the skimmer. Run a refugium w/macro, to control the nitrates... Most people don't seem to, cause they use skeleton set ups but I prefer my tanks to run them self, I still maintain like they are helpless but its nice to know that if you miss a water change your going to be fine. Sorry my post is all over, but I was not really in the mood to sort out my info and type it in a good order, kind of scatter brained atm.

Hi Squall,

Heere are a couple of more sources of info for you:

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted_sites/tcp/octokeep.html

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted_sites/tcp/rearing.html

While there are several species of octo that have been successfully kept in home aquariums, there are a number of advantages to getting an O. bimaculoides from Octopets:

1. You will know what you're getting - Unfortunately quite a few octopus sellers are dealing in wild caught animals of doubtful species. Not knowing the species can seriously affect your chances of success! [For example, Bimacs prefer a temperature that 10 to 15F cooler than the truly tropical animals that most reefers keep.]

2. 'Bimacs' are almost certainly the most commonly kept species and that means that it's also the best understood species in terms of home aquarium husbandry.

3. Since Octopets deals in captive bred octos you'll also have a pretty good idea of what your new octo's life expectancy is. Keep in mind that octos are very short lived animals - Bimacs live about 13 or 14 months; the so called pygmy species live half that long; and even the Giant Pacific Octopus only lives about 3 years.

A couple of other comments:

Using the "Aragocrete" as Travis suggests will also give you the oportunity to incorporate any number of den sites into your rockwork. OTOH: A lot of folks think that aragocrete is a singularly ugly looking material until it's had enough time to recruit a covering of coraline algae.

I wouldn't try keeping two octos in the same tank unless it was a very large tank such that the two could establish completely separate hunting territories. I believe someone on this forum has kept two bimacs in a 120gal for a while but I'm not sure if they stayed there through maturity. The thing is that when two octos meet they either mate (if they've reached that stage of life) or the bigger one eats the smaller. There is also a good deal of anecdotal evidence of the female eating the male immediately after mating; in fact, I think that I saw a video of this somewhere on the TONMO site.

Don't worry too much about lighting - these aren't corals! Most species of octos prefer pretty low light levels and many of them (most?) are naturally nocturnal. Many people though have been successful in convincing their own individual octo that it's OK to come out in the "daytime".

Suggestively yours,

Alex

Thanks for the great replys.

I'm convinced I'll only keep one now. I know the lifespan is short and I'm sure it will hurt in a year or so when he bites the dust. But its only natural, I'll just have to get another one when it happens and start all over again. I'm prepared for that.

I acctualy have some experience with agrocrete. I usualy make different pieces to put my coral cuttings on. I have no doubt I'd be able to make some pretty nifty caves for the critters. I'll probly use double actnics for lighting as that seems to grow coralline the fastest.

I was wondering how big a octo. from that website usualy is when it is shipped. I've been reading that many people use pvc pipe to house its home. I can do better with real caves. But I dont know what size to start with, and what size to finish with. I'm seriously looking at a 90 gallon now. How big will he get in a tank that size and relative to his size how big should his cave be?

Also I was reading a bit on RO water. Some people suggest to use normal tap water(treated first of course!) because the octo will benefit from the various minerals in the water. And that RO water is TOO pure. Anyone have an opinion on this? I'd rather go tap water myself but if RO water imrpoves his life I'll do it.

Reading all these octo stories is really getting me excited about it. I cant wait to get started as soon as I can get some funds together to buy and put the tank up. I hope to have one around christmas! :)

But I'll still need everyones help here. You guys have been great providing me with the information I need and I still have questions... (like the ones above :) I know I just had to make another post after reading that story about Ink the octopus)

I'm hearing they arrive in sizes up to a quarter. Thats pretty tiny, how big do they get and how fast do they grow, in a 90 gallon. My biggest concern is thier diet. I hear that they will eat any type of sea food. What do you feed it the first month of its life. Clams? And when they sea any sea food , could I go to a market and buy whatever salt water fish they have in stock, cut it up and feed it to it in moderation just like that? Will that keep it healthy.

I was wondering what you do about cleanup crew. I like to keep hermits and snails to keep my tanks clean, but that wont do. Are there certain species that will substitute for this tasks that Mr. Octopus wont eat?

Wow I have so many questions lol. I'm sorry I hope I'm not being a pest.

Also I was reading a bit on RO water. Some people suggest to use normal tap water(treated first of course!) because the octo will benefit from the various minerals in the water. And that RO water is TOO pure.

I'd say this is BS. Always use RO+DI. The EPA's drinking water standard for nitrate, for example, is ~30 mg/L. Try doing water changes with that! I don't think the treatment would take out all the copper or dangerous things in the water. Plus, the thing to think about when adding a treatment is "shouldn't I be taking chemicals out of the water, rather than putting them in?"

What minerals you find in your tapwater are controlled by the rocks and soils that the water flows through before it reaches the aquifer it's pumped out of. The minerals in the octo's natural habitat, however, are mainly controlled by the chemistry of the ocean and possibly a little tiny bit by the minerals found in runoff. I don't think you can assume that the minerals in your tapwater are the same minerals beneficial to the octopus.


Dan

What minerals you find in your tapwater are controlled by the rocks and soils that the water flows through before it reaches the aquifer it's pumped out of.

And, of course, whatever piping is between the water company and the tap. If you have copper piping in your home, for example, it would seem like a terrible idea to use tapwater.

Okay. I think I may have gotten my information a little wrong on that one. I've been reading alot of articles on octopus and starfish lately and I think the tap water thing came from a starfish article. I'll invest in an RO unit.

I was drawing up sketches for my setup. Wondering if its wise to put the heaters acctualy inside the tank or should they be in the sump? I want to put a couple cooling fans on the sump so I can keep the temperature as low as possible to extend the life spand of my new pet. With that kind of set up it seems reasonable to put the heaters in the tank, if it gets too cold theyd just heat it up. But with an Octo tank I really dont know what I should do. Will it play with the heaters if I decide to put them in the tank?

Most people don't need a heater with a bimac. Bimacs can tolerate cooler water - in the 60's is fine. If you're going to use a heater, put it in the sump and set it quite low - the fan will bring the water down a few degrees but not enough to cause the heater to come on.

Nancy

What she said !!! :)
The less stuff you have in the tank, the happier you and your octo will be, anyway...the curiousity factor is intense with these critters!!
Glad you got the RO thing sorted out...almost all of the ocean salts have the correct proportions of metals and minerals already in them...and with the huge amount of crap in the tap water these days (we don't drink it), it is best to avoid it like the plague.

greg

One thing I forgot to comment on is the amount of live rock. Sometimes you'll hear a pound for every gallon, sometimes 1 1/2 pounds or more. My experience has been that 1 pound per gallon is quite enough for your aquascaping and to provide dens of various sizes. More live rock begins to take up too much space and get in the way of the little "beach" where your octo can play and the swimming space he'll need. I found there was quite a bit of jetting, swimming, "romping" and moving around over the whole tank. I actually ended up removing a few rocks!

Nancy

Thanks alot, I do my own acgrocrete so I'll add about 1lb per gallon plus the caves I personaly construct for the littel guy...

About the heat and cold. I live in michigan! So its a little crazy. Gets down to -10 in the winter and 95+ in the summer. So I'm sure I'll have heat and cold issues on either side. But I think I'll be able to keep it at one constant tempterature, and if its winter or summer just turn one or the other off. That seems simple enough! I've always had heat issues with the majority of my tanks, but this is my first time putting a fan over the sump, so I hope it works out!

Thanks alot, I do my own acgrocrete so I'll add about 1lb per gallon plus the caves I personaly construct for the littel guy...



Be prepared for him not to like them!! We spent a considerable amount of time creating dens etc for our octopus at work and only one has ever used it consistantly! The others much preferred to do their own home decorating!

J

Jean is super correct here...we do concrete casting also, but I don't use it in any of the ceph tanks...they really have much more fun moving around the live rock on their own, even on the wild reef.

greg

I intend to go the agrocrete method, what if I make a den, then add extra small rocks aswell, to allow for re-arranging.

Is this doomed to failure?

Lol, really thats itneresting. Well maybe I'll sculpt alot of various rocks that he can use to build his own thing. Just give him the tools to do it

I know we tend to think only of rocks for den making, but shells are good material for dens, too. Younger octos live in the shell and older octos can use them for doors. It's good when you can encourage your octo to concentrate on moving smaller things in the tank, not always huge rocks!

Nancy

Really, like conch shells? No clue where to get some of those really. Only Conch shells I've seen are currently occupied by a snail :P

I'll try to track some down before I oder my little buddy.

One sudden question that came to mind is this liveshrimp.com thing. How much do you feed them a day once theyve gotten to a decent size?

Haha, just thinking some more after reading a few more articles....

Say you open the lid for feeding, what if your bimac decides he wants out... And crawls up into the opening... Assuming you could grab him and try to put him back in the water, but lol what happens if he latches onto you and wont let go?

Thats my real question, what do you do if he gets a hold of you and doesnt want to let your hand go? Will that ever happen or are they too shy. I've been reading alot and it sounds like a person and a octo could get into that sort of close relationship eventualy. I always thought those suction cups caused damage if they latched onto you, well thats what I was taught as a child anyways.

I've been reading a book by jaques cousteau and for o Vulgaris they turn the mantle of the octo over, and they aparently release. However this is while diving, so dont try it !!!, unless one of the experts here can confirm this?
Great book btw, J C is quite a writer.

Thats my real question, what do you do if he gets a hold of you and doesnt want to let your hand go?

Hello again,

I see on another thread that you're most likely going to get a bimac. If that's the case, you've got little to worry about. Bimacs don't have a reputation for biting so if one grabs you all you have to do is wait a few minutes till the octo has learned what he wants to know about you after which he'll let go and move on to some other activity. Even though they've got pretty good eyesight an octopus gets the bulk of its information from its suckers which are sensitive to both touch and taste. When an octo grabs you it's usually just trying to figure out what you are and if you're edible (you're not and they can figure that out).

OTOH: KNOW YOUR SPECIES!!!

There are some species of octopus that seem to use biting as a first line of defense. In my area we have O. rubescens witch is an absolute biting fool! Further, they have a toxin that makes their bite seriously painful. And, of course, there are the various 'blue-ringed' species that bite fairly often and that can kill you!

As far as the suckers causing any injury to you - don't worry about it. So long as you let the octo let go on its own terms there ought not to be any aftermath whatsoever. The priority is to let things progress at the octo's pace. If you try to force it to let go you could end up with several minor 'hickies' but the real concern is that you could do some damage to an octo that's just being curious.

As an aside, the other octopus we have around here is the Giant Pacific Octopus and I've heard a number of funny/scary stories about GPO's causing serious problems for scuba divers. I've never heard of one of these being actually aggressive toward a diver but they are very curious. A local marine biologist who studies octo behavior has had numerous instances of a GPO wondering about some piece of scuba gear and forcibly removing from him for closer examination - he's lost swim fins, gloves, face masks, and even mouthpieces. Another aquaintance once allowed a GPO to crawl onto his head so that his wife could photograph it. While there, at a depth of about 60 feet, the GPO got to wondering what might be inside the air regulator. When it started feeling around inside the housing it managed to jam some part of the mechanism such that he suddenly had no air. Fortunately they were able to coax the octo into going away so that he could start breathing again.

Pacifistically yours,

Alex

Thanks :) Well my questions have been answered I'll just let it do its thing. As long as it doesnt decide it wants to eat me I have no problem with him grabing onto me lol