I know its been threaded to death, but Giant squid finally seen! (rant included)

[Ceph fan]

A few minor derails as we go... i know most of you have heard, but if ya haven't...
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8064

one thing i want to know is... how come marine biologists' "greatest mystery" has avoided scientists for ages and now is finally caught on tape in its natural habitat by a couple (seemingly) amateurs who used a simple lure and a digital camera? and if I read this article right, it was not too far off the coast nor too deep, when it had been almost common knowledge that Arciteuthis (sp?) lives very deep (one of the reasons it had never been seen)...

did they need to take off the arm? i know they have found body parts washed up or in the guts of whales, so what did this really accomplish? I know supposedly it won't harm the squid any (even though it won't grow it back) but can they really justify taking a piece of the first live giant squid ever seen/photographed if they have pieces of ones that had died prior? I can't see decomposition in cephalopod tissue setting in as quickly as other animal tissues... :confused:

Why hasn't this gotten more media coverage? I only discovered this almost a week after the fact and I spend what spare time i have (in uni) looking up stuff like this for interests sake. I would have expected this to be almost (if not) front page stuff!

Last but not least, i guess the hunt is now on for the colossal squid.... that or cthulthu....

edit: no insult to dr. kubodora, but i was surprised by his amateurish methods....

[WhiteKiboko]

actually it did make the major tv networks in the US the days after i found out about it on tonmo (tues or wed i forget) and i definitely dont think dr. kubodera would exactly fall under the amateur label....

900m is pretty deep by my standards....

[Tintenfisch]

How come marine biologists' "greatest mystery" has avoided scientists for ages and now is finally caught on tape in its natural habitat by a couple (seemingly) amateurs who used a simple lure and a digital camera?

Drs Kubodera and Mori had been working on this for three consecutive years, on a shoestring budget. They chose their study site based on where they knew sperm whales to be feeding (extrapolating that giant squid would be found there), but this does not necessarily guarantee the presence of Archi, as was demonstrated several years ago when scientists tried a similar approach in Kaikoura, New Zealand (an area where whales are frequently seen, but no giant squid has ever stranded or been caught). It may be just a matter of happening to finally be in the right place at the right time, or a matter of patience and persistence paying off, or both. Whatever the case, it's great that they did it, especially given their limited budget.


Did they need to take off the arm?
To my knowledge, the tentacle snagging was accidental. They did not intend to remove any part of the squid; the tentacle got hooked and broke in the squid's attempts to free itself. Remaining attached to the hook, the tentacle was brought to the surface, where it was used to confirm the squid's ID as Architeuthis. (Now, why the bait was on a hook instead of just attached to the line via a non-snagging device, is a good question... )

[Fujisawas Sake]

Dude, with all due respect, I would hardly call these guys "amateurs", let alone be too critical of their methods. Keep in mind that most scientists don't have the vast financial resources to man these expeditions with the ideal technologies that are on the horizon. People are pissy about paying for anything that isn't immediately going to pay for itself. Its not like we can eat these beasts, so the only immediate gratification this discovery is in sating our curosity and expanding ever so slightly our knowledge of marine invertebrate systematics.

Kubodera and Mori may get a grant and some recognition, but will probably not get anything too financially rewarding. What they have done is taken the first photograph and set a new path in teuthology.

I mean, take Steve and Kat; I would SERIOUSLY doubt they have the funds to get the major kickass probes and robots to do 24/7/365 squid hunting, so they make do with what they have.

Also. I've corresponded with Dr. Kubodera, and he's pretty cool, so if you have questions about the project, you might try asking him.

[Jean]

Bottom line here folks is ....if you want to get rich don't go for a career in marine science...........especially not studying invertebrates!:lol: However if you want job satisfaction ( for at least ooh 5% of the time:grin: ) and you're into looooooooooooooong sessions among computers that freeze and crash, extreme pongs, the frustration of having to analyse using stats you don't really understand (ie you have masochistic tendencies!) then this is the job for you!!


(Sorry having a bad morning!:oops:)

J

[erich orser]

No, if you want to get rich, the only guaranteed way is by a carreer in show business. Especially by being a rock star. Just plan on being a rock star. Or do what Rebecca and I do for a living! Hey, we're rich!

Okay, maybe we just dress that way.

Cephfan, no, I really don't think removing the tentacle was their official intention. What did this accomplish? Other than helping make a positive Archie I.D., probably nothing. I don't think the prime motivating factor was to go mutilate a living architeuthis - but sometimes you just get lucky, I guess.:wink: Poor squid.

[DHyslop]

A lot of squid are killed and eaten by people. I'm not saying that's immoral, just that perhaps a tentacle isn't that big of a deal in the long run.

Dan

[Steve O'Shea]

... one thing i want to know is... how come marine biologists' "greatest mystery" has avoided scientists for ages and now is finally caught on tape in its natural habitat by a couple (seemingly) amateurs who used a simple lure and a digital camera?

Just one point; these two are anything but amateurs; they're extremely well established in their respective disciplines (Ku is a world authority on squid); I have tremendous respect for both of them.

[Graeme]

I haven't seen the footage yet, but I've been hearing murmers about it, like you can't actually tell that the squid in the video is actually all that big. I need to see it for myself though.
Graeme

[squidalirium]

Its actually good the tentacle tore off, now their is genetic evidence of the squid. If their was no evidence and just pictures it would be dismissed as a hoax by people who want to be the first to get the footage of a giant squid. Genetic evidence rules out a hoax and dispels doubt. Any way it will grow back.:smile:

[Tintenfisch]

Anyway it will grow back.:smile:

Well... it may grow back. I think it is likely to start regenerating, but whether it will actually grow enough to be of any use to the squid will depend on how much longer the squid lives. I don't mean to say that the loss of a tentacle will cause it to die sooner (though it certainly could, from trauma or inability to feed properly), but rather, that we don't know the lifespan of Architeuthis. So, if it has an 18-month lifepan, and if this individual was mature, I think it's unlikely to regenerate the whole tentacle before it dies. On the other hand, if the lifespan is more like 6 or 13 years (as different ageing methods may indicate), and if this was a young(ish) individual, then the tentacle may fully regenerate.

[sorseress]

Thanks for that info, I was wondering if it could regenerate. I hope it can still catch it's prey with that kind of damage. :archi:

[chrono_war01]

hm..considering the size of prey a Archi catchs, I don't think it will be a problem...will it?

[CapnNemo]

Thanks for that info, I was wondering if it could regenerate. I hope it can still catch it's prey with that kind of damage. :archi:

...Or defend itself from whaleattack!

Unhand me you brute!!!

:whalevsa:

(It would be better if we had speech bubbles available)

Chrono, good question, do we know what size prey Archi generally eats?

[erich orser]

I think they eat - and forgive me if I'm spelling this wrong - hoki?

[CapnNemo]

I think they eat - and forgive me if I'm spelling this wrong - hoki?

These chaps here?

60-100 cm, quite big!

[erich orser]

Yeah! Those guys!

[OB]

Ahum... Please inform me if the posting of a publicly available abstract is infringing copyright, in which case I would offer my apologies:


Journal of Heredity Advance Access originally published online on March 2, 2005
Journal of Heredity 2005 96(4):417-423; doi:10.1093/jhered/esi036

© The American Genetic Association. 2005. All rights reserved. For Permissions, please email: journals.permissions@oupjournals.org.

Brief Communication

Genetic Screening for Prey in the Gut Contents from a Giant Squid (Architeuthis sp.)
B. E. Deagle, S. N. Jarman, D. Pemberton, and N. J. Gales

From the Zoology Department, University of Tasmania, GPO Box 252-05, Hobart, 7001, Australia (Deagle); Australian Antarctic Division, Channel Highway, Kingston, 7050, Australia (Deagle, Jarman, and Gales); and Tasmanian Museum and Art Gallery, GPO Box 1164, Hobart, 7001, Australia (Pemberton)



Giant squids (Architeuthis sp.) remain mysterious; they have evaded observation and are rarely taken from their deep sea habitat. Information on the diet of Architeuthis is scarce due to the limited number of specimens with morphologically recognizable remains in their digestive tracts. We explored the use of polymerase chain reaction (PCR)-based methods for detection of DNA in the prey remains and amorphous slurry from an Architeuthis gut sample. The DNA region amplified varied in size, allowing separation of fish and squid components. Sequence comparisons identified fish prey as Macruronus novaezelandiae. Isolation of Architeuthis DNA from an ingested tentacle and the presence of chitin fragments indicate cannibalism occurs in giant squid. Denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis was used to screen for less common DNA types, revealing a high frequency of PCR-generated false alleles, but no additional prey species.

PS: for those unaware of nomenclature, Macruronus novaezelandiae is indeed hoki

[Tintenfisch]

We also found the remains of arrow squid (Nototodarus spp.) in the gut contents of the one we reported, so they also take smaller squid (total length to ~70cm, we think... plus that Archi tentacle club :roll: ).

[Jean]

My personal opinion is squid are pretty opportunistic..........if it moves eat it!!!! I've seen stuff in guts ranging from Krill to Lanternfish to Hoki, Warehou and Red Cod, each other, with the odd shark thrown in for good measure! and that's for smallish species (well compared to Archi and Messie anyway:grin: )

J

[chrono_war01]

sharks!?:bugout:

So, these squids tackle sharks or do they seem to feed on the hapless little sharkies?

[Jean]

sharks!?:bugout:

So, these squids tackle sharks or do they seem to feed on the hapless little sharkies?

Yup sharks! Ok so it was a Moroteuthis ingens (pretty big! ML ~500mm if I remember correctly) and it was a Dogfish (but they get to a metre or so in length) but I wouldn't be at all surprised if we find some of the larger squid eating shark. Reconstructed weights and lengths of some of the Nototodarus sloanii prey I've been looking at put them bigger than the squid that ate them!!

J

[chrono_war01]

do you think that they would scavange or target wounded sharks in search of a nice bug and easy meal?

[OB]

Any chance on an inside scoop, pun intended, on gut contents of the record Mesonychoteuthis described in full by SOS and the lovely Ms. Tintenfisch?

I know it came as a three part jigsaw, but I'm not sure that included a gutted mantlepiece...

(drumroll, crowd goes "boooooo")

Or should I simply study my literature before asking? 8o)

[Tintenfisch]

Unfortunately the stomach/caecum was gone - the mantle was broken open where it should have been, and it presumably 'fell out' at some stage during the retrieval-freezing process. (Unless, of course, it contained bits of one of the fishermen who got too close (let's call him 'Ahab'), and they had to remove it to get rid of any evidence that they might have 'collected' it for revenge purposes... hmmm :goofysca: ). Anecdotal evidence of gnawed Toothfish coming up on longlines, plus the association of this specimen with Toothfish longlining, suggest that probably at least part of the diet is... guess... Toothfish!

[Steve O'Shea]

... suggest that probably at least part of the diet is... guess... Toothfish!
Not to be confused with Tintenfisch!

[um...]

On most days.

[Tintenfisch]

Not to be confused with Tintenfisch!

Alas, no. I should be so lucky. <sigh>

[Fujisawas Sake]

ooooookay... So, Kat, you WANT to be shredded by a radula and giant beak? :shock:

[ArchyNorth]

At least she'll get to see one in it's natural environment....

[Fujisawas Sake]

Might make for a grim series of 500 photos though....

[OB]

Urm, if you do, please, bring a flashlight and an entry level mobile phone to take pictures, totally de rigeur nowadays, high speed HD video is SO 2004...

Now, moving back to the original grounds for this thread, could anyone help me speculate on the nature of the white blotches on either side of the head of the Architeuthis photographed in attack mode? Keels? Part of the bait? The angle doesn't seem to support a view into the mantle cavity...

Wow, I'm no longer a larval mass!!!! (starts sobbing uncontrollably in humble gratitude)

[Jean]

do you think that they would scavange or target wounded sharks in search of a nice bug and easy meal?

Nope I reckon they would actively take the shark, wounded or otherwise! As far as I know squid don't scavenge........but who can say what we're going to find out as research carries on!!!

J