Tintenfisch and I are actually in Wellington right now, giving talks at the National Museum of New Zealand (they have the colossal squid on public display for a week).

After our talk yesterday we went back into the freezers (as you do) and pulled out a ~15kg lump. It proved to be another Architeuthis, but a real small one, caught mid-May off southernmost New Zealand (very late in the summer to be collecting these, and very far south). It is only the second specimen to be caught this summer (it has been a rather strange year).

We'll have a detailed look at it this morning (and a few other exciting bits and pieces) and then go off to talk about the colossal, smelling REAL BAD (we didn't smell pretty at dinner last evening either; I think we'd both sooner work on Mesonychoteuthis :roll: - it doesn't smell). Will post more details here soon.
Cheers
Us

Cool -- when you say mid-May, I guess you mean 2002? And you mentioned late summer... sorry, my center of the universe is Pennyslvania... is it late in the summer where you are? I'm not sure I know how these things work... :?

Ooops. No, the specimen was caught just over a month ago but has only just made its way to the museum.

It isn't very summery in Wellington today I might add (we need a 'freezing' emoticon).

Just off to look at it now
Toodles

So why doesn't the Messie smell bad? :P

From what I understand Messie has no ammonia in the tissues. That's not to say it won't smell bad if you leave it lying around for a week :mrgreen:

Speaking of which we just had a Sunfish wash ashore in the harbour today, way cool fish, but it is starting to smell a little shall we say....ripe!


J

....Ooooops, forgot to follow up with the details for that squid.

It proved to be incomplete, a mantle only (with length written in a book that I cannot locate at present - ~ 1.2m) and male (mature); its incomplete nature accounts for the small size/weight of the bag (~ 30kg). It was taken very far south (~ 50°S) around the Auckland Islands this past austral summer (Feb/March), southernmost New Zealand (not to be confused with sunny Auckland where we are based).

When I track the details down I'll post something; it was only the second specimen to be caught (that I know of) this summer ..... not a big summer for these brutes this year. The reason why I remembered this morning was that I had a dream last night ...... two massive females were dropped off to me in the office. I don't think they'd appreciate that at work ... defrosting squid and squid goo oozing down 5 floors.
O

any chance of some jpegs???? sorry about the cold...hotter than hades here today!
Greg

I've attached a pic of a giant squid that has only recently (this past week) gone on display at the National Aquarium of New Zealand, in Napier. This is the only specimen on display in New Zealand, and it is absolutely gorgeous (as far as these things go). We only sent it to them a few months ago, so they've done a superb job in a very short period of time. Thanks to everyone there for getting this specimen on display!

The preservative level is a little low, and the preservative itself a little cloudy, but this is early in the piece (there's a lot to do yet). Shortly it will be topped up.

Excellent job everyone!

Here's another pic, with Kerry Hewitt (also a TONMO member and squid and octopus convert, of the National Aquarium) - the chap instrumental in obtaining the squid for the National Aquarium, and getting it on display.

Anyone visiting New Zealand MUST make it down to the National Aquarium in Napier; it is a most fantastic place, and the people there are simply wonderful to work with. We'll be working with them in the lead up to several expeditions planned for 2004.

Just found this. The original article came out with an additional, stunning pic of Kat and me against an aquarium backdrop; not in the online article I'm afraid.

.... never a dull moment in New Zealand
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/marine/marinestorydisplay.cfm?storyID=3503596&r eportID=57034

Over the past 7 days we've given 7 separate talks; the coming week we'll be giving far more, the following week we are in Hobart looking at some sensational beasts.

It'd be nice to be able to sit down

What a great display! we down here at Portobello are totally jealous...well at least Kerry & I are :mrgreen:

Hey Steve & Kat when you're in Hobart say Hi to George and Belinda for me (Natalie too if she comes down from Launceston!) I'm sure you'll be seeing them! Aw heck say hi to everyone cephy!!!

J

.....watch this space

Tintenfisch and I are fresh back from a secret location, having examined a most stunning, fresh Architeuthis caught ~ 5 days ago. I'd never seen a fresh one (as in one that had not been frozen first), and I was amazed at the difference! .... and we learnt lots of exciting stuff!

One thing is for sure. The theory that this animal migrates into NZ waters to breed is pretty solid.

Sleepy time
Us

Steve & Kat,

:heee:

Once again, congratulations on finding yourself at the end of the big teuthid conveyor belt.

Male or female? Eye(s) intact? Offshore or inshore?

Yours truly,
Clem

Female, eyes pretty intact, in good condition (missing tentacles and fins), kept on ice for us by an obliging hoki boat, and to say she was mature would be the understatement of the century.

;)

Oh... and let me just say, to those who have never been in a position to try single-handedly preventing 200kg of squid from slipping to the floor, off three rolling tables whose wheels are not locked, causing them to gradually separate as you realize the inevitable and can only watch in horror, knowing the floor is too slippery to give you the purchase you would need to escape the area in time, and in a single pre-impact lucid thought thanking whatever deities you admire that the camera crew has just left, then feebly covering your face in a futile attempt to keep the splattering slime out of your facial orifices... you're missing out. And the horror movie industry also missed out on recording the sound effect of a lifetime.

Not that I speak from experience.

:roflmao: Just another day at the office, ay?

And the horror movie industry also missed out on recording the sound effect of a lifetime.

Did it go blekksprut?

That's a surprisingly good approximation, actually... :shock:
I hadn't thought of Norwegian as an onomatopoetic language before, but I am reconsidering.

Here are a couple of pics taken at the boat show last month (our stall isn't quite finished yet - it looked a lot better ... but the camera ran out of battery).

We reckon we spoke to 41,000 people that week!

.... and after the boat show, we had to return the squid (we had on loan from the National Museum in Wellington) .... and this is how one transports a squid in New Zealand (I don't care to remember the number of times we've done this!).

(Sadly this is one of the pics lost in a server change over; it was of a squid on a trailer, towed, in the middle of a snow-covered central New Zealand plateau (the Desert Road).)

Hi Steve and Kat!!

Someone at work mentioned another squid had been found. Amazing pictures! And you mentioned mature.... Does that mean eggs? Can only imagine experiencing something that big splatting on the floor :yuck: ! Must have been quite a project getting it all up.....

Also, snow in July :shock: ??? Wow. Total opposite of here. When is your summer?

Carol

Tintenfisch and I are fresh back from a secret location, having examined a most stunning, fresh Architeuthis caught ~ 5 days ago. I'd never seen a fresh one (as in one that had not been frozen first), and I was amazed at the difference! .... and we learnt lots of exciting stuff!

One thing is for sure. The theory that this animal migrates into NZ waters to breed is pretty solid.


Ja, another squid was taken recently (post above). We're in the midst of another small telly special (you'd probably know it by the name '60 minutes'); will probably air in NZ 17 August (they're waiting on 2 more pieces of footage/filming opportunities). Word came Friday last that a large squid had been taken and placed on ice; the ship returned the Sunday and unloaded Monday. So we darted down in the middle of the austral winter (yup, there's snow down here then) to return one squid and pick up another.

I was concerned that an animal having been on ice for 3 days might have rotted somewhat, but its condition was superb. The TV chaps got some pretty impressive footage (she was fully mature - ready to burst - at a mantle length of 1.8 metres) of this squid being uncovered in the fish hold, hoisted out onto the back of our truck, driven off, hoisted off the back of the truck onto some 'rolling tables' [the ones Kat had difficulty with], and then examined. Her stomach was empty. There was something rather unique about the way the eggs were released from the oviducts - I'll have to modify one of our theories a bit (re egg distribution in the large gelatinous egg sphere). But I don't mind modifying anything - it's all progress.

Cheers
O

..... and as a ps, the skipper, Kip, of the vessel said one of the crew had caught a squid that was truly of colossal proportions. I nodded my head (as I'm prone to doing) ... but Kip said there were photos. I nodded my head again. Kip called yesterday and said he now had the photos and did I want to see them. (He's a top bloke - invited me out to sea with him on the next trip ..... hmmmmm).

Anyway, photos en route of a truly humungously colossal squid. I wonder what it is? I might have to eat my words.

AAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :x

Oh, the suspense! How long can we wait to see these photos I wonder?

Mind you, how does one interpret colossal? Betcha its a Moroteuthis or something not uncommon that Kip does not recognise. Maybe I'm too cynical!

Oarfish. Definitely an oarfish.

:wink:

I put it down to too much vino being consumed aboard the vessel, but these guys were adamant that this thing was as 'wide as the bridge', and that the Architeuthis in the ice hold was a puppy in comparison. If this is true then there's something mean, ugly and ferocious down there :goofysca:

I'll get permission to post the pics as soon as I get them.

Steve,

"Down there," eh? Down deep, or down Antarctic? (If the location must remain secret, I'll certainly understand. I'm just making conversation 'til the photos show up.)

How far along into NZ's Architeuthis season are you?

Clem

We're 2 weeks into 'Architeuthis season' so far; to my knowledge there's been a single capture so far .... but over the next 6 weeks we should see a few more animals being caught.

I'm not too sure where this big, dastardly monster squid came from, but it is/was from New Zealand waters. I'm eager to see the pics myself.

Cheers
O

A Bigger squid I can hardly wait!!

as for the snow.............what snow? you guys need to come south for some REAL weather! We coulda built snowmen (sorry snowpersons!) on the beach a couple of weeks ago!

J

Well, the photos of this big, mean and nasty squid finally arrived. Tiz just a standard/mature female Architeuthis I'm afraid - not as big as was initially relayed.

Would have been nice to have found another monster!

It's not long now before we pick up our modified boat .... have just secured the necessary funding; in just a few weeks we'll have all manner of weird and wonderful images to post online (squid and octopus), live!!

After a long, sometimes uphill battle, things are falling into place. It really is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration. Tonight I believe I shall treat myself to a wee :wine:, but for now I'll sit in a near-empty office listening to some glorious Andy Williams! (I can hear Kat gag .....), and tonight it shall be Roger Whittaker.
Toodles
O

to some glorious Andy Williams!(I can hear Kat gag.....),and tonight it shall be Roger Whittaker

Hey Steve,

I can just hear my folks asking "what about Val Doonican or the Corries???????????"

J

Val Doonican's 'Elusive Butterfly' - what a lovely track that was Jean. I'll go put on a cardigan, sweep the hair back, dye it blond(ish), smile a rare smile, dust off the LP's and go listen away.
Cheers
O

to some glorious Andy Williams!(I can hear Kat gag.....),and tonight it shall be Roger Whittaker

Hey Steve,

I can just hear my folks asking "what about Val Doonican or the Corries???????????"

J

O ye of little faith, some of us like Roger Whittaker up here too! (Is he still among the living, or no?) We even have a Greatest Hits CD with "Wind Beneath My Wings", "Down by the Salley Garden", "Durham Town", "Last Farewell (For You Are Beautiful)", etc. You gotta problem with that?? 8)

When I was about 15, back in the days of vinyl ("Vinyl, what's that?") I used to own an Andy Williams album called LONELY STREET, with such cheerful, upbeat numbers as "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry", "Willow Weep for Me", "You Don't Know What Love Is", "I'm So Alone", "When Your Lover Has Gone", and the title song. All my friends owned copies of it too, and we used to get together a lot and play it over and over till we were all miserable. (That's the trouble with teenagers nowadays -- they just don't know how to have fun!)

:cry: (snif)
Me

Akershally Tani I don't have a problem with ol' Rog, I grew up with him singing & whistling in the background, I just thought to mention that there are other "easy listening" sort's of stuff around! Although, Steve, I must say as a Kid I preferred "Delaney's Donkey" to " Elusive Butterfly"!!

And really one can't go past "The Randy Bantam Cock" or "The Portree Kid" by the Corries!! (who incidentally are most famous for "the flower of Scotland" sung at all Scottish soccer matches!)

J

Ahem ..... just composing myself

Number 2 (that I'm aware of) Architeuthis has just been caught off West Coast South Island for this winter-spawning season. It weighs ~ 100kg, so is likely to be a mature/submature male.

Might do something interesting with this one ...... will keep it a secret (see what kind of condition it is in). Might have to get the truck and trailer on another southern NZ visit/squid run.

Where is Hank Williams when you need him??

BTW Steve - there's one of them 'dumbo octopus' thingys from 6-800 m off Westport in the freezer if you're interested before B tosses it out.

OMG - is B in octopus-tossing mode again?

I spoke with B yester - he never mentioned it (just the GS). From memory, was it pale/cream/translucent, or was it red blobby (like Opisthoteuthis). 6-800m sounds deep for hoki - which is what they were probably going for - but they must have been on the bottom to catch blobby (if it's red).

I need to pass the Bombay Hills real soon and discover the rest of NZ - just trying to fit the trip into an otherwise impossibly tight schedule.

Thanks M
O

pale & creamy ....anyway its frozen in a solid block of ice at present (underneath the Archeytoothless & a couple of Mesoplodons). There was also a very gravid cranchid (I think) I picked up from Cuba St Fisheries last month which B pickled.

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=633

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=632

Howdo M; is this the pale/creamy beast to which you referred in email? If so it is Graneledone taniwha, although which of the two subspecies it is I wouldn't want to pick based on a photograph (the location is typical of G. taniwha taniwha, but the relative arm length is more typical of G. taniwha kubodera, typical of southern Auckland/Bounty Plateaux).

If the blobby thing in the freezer is the above then it's no major deal (this is one of our most abundant deep-sea octopods), but if frozen blobby is pale-coloured and has fins then I'm excited (it could be either Luteuthis or 'Cirothauma'; a single specimen of the latter is known from NZ waters, collected MANY years ago ... and long-since gone .... pretty typical of cirrates - they are very susceptible to fisheries impact and populations decimate in the space of a few years).
Cheers
O

Hey Steve,

You're always welcome at Otago! (Kat too of course!) George, muttered something about coming over maybe in October too so we could have our own wee ceph conclave! I'd even break out the Corries, Val Doonican and Roger Whitaker tapes! :D A few :wine: :glass: :beer: and all would be right in the world!!

J

Well, the gruesome teuthsome have just finished another MS on larval Architeuthis, in conjunction with two other most respectable teuthy gentlemen. We've been brave and sent it to one of our very own (growing number of) members, Prof. Richard (Dick) Young, for review prior to submission for formal review - it's always best to do it this way so as there are no unpleasant surprises when you receive a reviewer's comments.

That makes 5 manuscripts submitted for the year, 3 accepted and 2 still in formal review, and this present pending paper. We've been busy, and there's more sensational news to come, and quite a few more manuscripts (at least 3 in various stages of completion) - the way things are shaping up.

Jean, a mini-con featuring music and lyrics by Roger Whittaker, and much squid conversation, would be most warmly received by those with refined tastes in such things :wink:

I'd even break out the Corries, Val Doonican and Roger Whitaker tapes! :D

Gee thanks, Jean, but... :P

See you in September!

Gee thanks, Jean, but... :P

See you in September!

Hmmmmmm maybe I should bung a few tapes in my bag and bring them with me :twisted:

I promise tho' absolutely NO Neil. I actually don't know anyone down here who owns a tape/record/cd (are there CD's of him, she wonders or have they all be used as coffee mug coasters???)............or admits to it!

J

Are there CDs? Unfortunately yes. Steve has, I am not kidding, about 30 (this seems staggering until one comes to the awful realization that there are 54+ albums in total).

:yuck: :yuck: :yuck:

about 30 (this seems staggering until one comes to the awful realization that there are 54+ albums in total).

:shock:


Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

Still that's a lotta coasters for your coffee mugs/beer bottles/wine glasses etc you'll never have mug rings on your desk again :twisted:

J

They do also make excellent frisbees.

They do also make excellent frisbees.
Or an attractive light-catching mobile...

That's the trouble with teenagers nowadays -- they just don't know how to have fun!)
:cry: (snif)


Things sure have changed, that's for sure; romance has simply gone - but I just can't put my finger on what it's been replaced with yet .... if in fact it has been replaced with anything..... maybe there's just this huge void in the lives of many young people today.

Had an interesting chat with someone this evening regarding this very thing .... and was surprised to pick up on this thread/your post Tani (I seem to have lost track of much that is both happening online and around me, so it was a surprise).

Time isn't an issue if you live in the past, but I think it all too easy to get caught up in some time warp, listening to and enjoying the same old tunes, blissfully oblivious to the hectic pace of life, love, music and this teen-need to 'experience' everything. Then, suddenly, in a comfortable daze, someone goes and hits you over the head with a sock-full of hot diarrhoea. You awaken at some unknown time and space to find all of your records abused as frizbees, both memories and dreams shattered and scratched like those precious old LP's.

The indignity of it all!!!

They do also make excellent frisbees.

.....ooooops, I didn't mean to press 'delete *.*' on your PC Kat, honest

That's OK; where's Neil? :twisted:

That's OK; where's Neil? :twisted:

He could visit us in the south, we have a Loverly antarctic ice cod in the freezer in need of some wrappings :twisted: :twisted:

J

Speaking of the lack of dull moments in New Zealand, did you guys feel this? (http://xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,3882-2605126,00.html)

Steve
Your Neil D news item is archived online, complete with the pic..want the URL?

Speaking of the lack of dull moments in New Zealand, did you guys feel this?

Yup, I HATE earthquakes! Coincidentally we'd just had a mini series on an earthquake that decimated NY.

We had a field team in Doubtful Sound at the time (where the epicentre was) it'll be interesting to hear what they had to say.

we had another in the same region last night (~ 5 on the richter)

Course Perke reckons it could just be Messie grabbing the lower part of the south island :lol: :lol:

J

Hi all; we've been quiet on this thread for a wee while - have been a tad preoccupied here in NZ with the old research. Just to let you know that we've taken possession of three Architeuthis this past week - the 2nd, 3rd and forth to be collected/captured this past month (winter-breeding season); all have, as predicted, been captured off West Coast of South Island.

Jean, Kerry, if you're in Auckland Wednesday 3 September we'll have one on public display at AUT. Any other Aucklander/New Zealand traffic, this is a public display. The specimen should be ready for all to see at 1pm. Will post pics of the throng of people that we expect. There's also a telly programme airing on the 7th that will cover recent research on the animals ('Sunday TV', TVNZ), so be sure to watch.
Cheers
Steve

Just a wee update. Turns out that one of the 'Architeuthis' specimens was actually a specimen of Taningia danae (we were informed we had three Archi), so in fact we only had two Architeuthis to report and defrost, both male, ~ 1.5 metres in mantle length. Had to take them home (long story) earlier today, so presently there are 2 defrosted(ing) Architeuthis in the garage.

The Taningia happend at a good time as we have a new species of Octopoteuthis down here (Octopoteuthis 'giant'), very closely related to Taningia, to describe. Also, and we'll get pics of this, on the Taningia there appeared to be 'pores' between the 3rd and 4th arms on either side (where the larval 'tentacles' would have been). Never noticed them before - pretty sensational actually - and will now check for such rudiments of tentacles, or their position on the Octopoteuthis. We'll have illustrations of Taningia hooks online in no time.

Kerry and Jean (both Tonmoer's), got their first chance to get up close and personal with Archi. We're needing more squid folk here in NZ!
Cheers
O

Steve,

That's pretty interesting stuff. Are mix-ups between Architeuthis and Taningia not uncommon? I've recently seen an illustration (reproduced below) of a captured giant that's come to be known as the Dingle-I-Cosh squid; described in seventeenth-century Ireland as a 19-foot animal, it's been assumed since then to have been Architeuthis, but the contemporary written description (and the illustration) suggest an animal whose proportionally much larger fins ran down the lateral midline of the mantle.

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=3946

Looking forward to photos of the hooks, and those "pores" where the tentacles were. Odd that the outgrown appendages left empty sockets behind. Have you measured them, yet?

Clem

.... what is one to make of that squid? Actually, and I'm sorry but I don't recall the details of where and when, but there's 'talk' of some giant cranchiid squid, Mesonychoteuthis hamiltoni, in the Arctic based on beaks recovered from sperm whales in the region (many species do have bipolar distributions), although no specimen, not even larval, has been captured in the area. I wrote a paper a few years ago about this beak id business, and how you couldn't admit a species into a regional faunal inventory based on them, as the majority are recorded from stomach contents of long-distance foraging marine predators.

There's always Galiteuthis phyllura, another thing thought to attain mantle lengths in the order of 2.7 metres, according to Nesis (1982/87, the latter the English translation), distributed from the Bering Sea to northern Japan and Baja California, and in the Sea of Okhotsk. Interesting really, 2.7 metres is larger than our Mesonychoteuthis specimen, and considerably larger (0.5 metres) than any Architeuthis that we've seen. Although we believe Mesonychoteuthis probably gets up to 4 metres mantle length (at least), Galiteuthis phyllura is still the largest squid thus far 'reliably' known (Nesis was certainly not one to exaggerate).

.... to cut a long story short, even though that thing depicted in the illustration above doesn't look true to any squid, it is probably more similar to a cranchiid than it is to an architeuthid.

As for confusing Taningia with Architeuthis, it happens all the time (even octopus, eg. Haliphron atlanticus), has been confused by experienced fisheries personnel in the past; basically if it's big and cephalopod people refer it to Architeuthis (along with Idioteuthis cordiformis and some Moroteuthis species).

Those pores are of great interest, and we'll get to the bottom of them soon.
Cheers
O

Curiouser and curiouser! Needless to say, I am especially interested in that Taningia. Is it larger than the "giant" T. Danae found off the coast of Spain some time ago? Definitely want to see those pics. What do the photophores look like when they are "extinguished"?

Can you refer me to any illustrations of Galliteuthis? If I'm not mistaken, I've seen a pic or two of the larval form whose arms are held at an angle resembling a cockatoo's crest. Wouldn't it be interesting if ultimately, despite the impressive dimensions of Archi and Messie, "Galli" turned out to be the Big Daddy of them all? And who knows what else may be lurking down there! My knowledge of oceanography is zero so this might be just a flight of fancy, but I had the impression that at a certain depth (and in the absence of a swim bladder), continuous growth is unimpeded. Now that would be some kind of awesome. Cthulhu lives! :shock:

My first impression of that engraving was its resemblance to the mega-Squid in LOTR. (And whassup with that proboscis between the feeding tentacles, which looks too long and weirdly shaped to be the funnel? Reminds me of the alien's extendable jaws in ALIEN.) Then it occurred to me that the winglike flukes suggested the rarely-seen "Mystery Squid" (remember him?) that may or may not be a Magnapinnidae. Come to think of it, have there been any recent sightings and/or scientific updates on that seraphic creature?

So much cool data rolling in from Steve-O's lab lately, I feel like a kid in a candy store!

:sun:

Fancy meeting you in here Tani. I wasn't sure whether you'd cotton on so fast, but yes the dwelling on Taningia danae was just for you.

The funny thing about the photophores on this one was that instead of being the yellow with which I was familiar, they were very pale, quite washed out in appearance, but not at all damaged by the trawl.

The specimen was very small for the species - don't quote me on this, but the mantle was only ~ 0.5 metres. They grow an awful-lot larger than this (as you know). I think that there's a second species out there, either with a name (in synonymy of danae), or a new species. No matter where you turn in cephalopod systematics there are problems to resolve. We'll get to this one as soon as we can, but we actually need more material.

Pics to come ...... ; cheers
Me

My first impression of that engraving was its resemblance to the mega-Squid in LOTR. (And whassup with that proboscis between the feeding tentacles, which looks too long and weirdly shaped to be the funnel? Reminds me of the alien's extendable jaws in ALIEN.)

Taningia,

Here's what they said about the Dingle squid in 1673 Dublin:

A Wonderful Fish or Beast...which had two heads and Ten horns, and upon Eight of the said horns about 800 Buttons or the resemblance of little Coronets: and in each of them a set of Teeth; the said Body was bigger than a Horse and was 19 Foot Long Horns and all, the great Head thereof Carried only the ten Horns and two very large Eyes, And the little head thereof carried a wonderful strange mouth and two Tongues in it, which had natural power to draw itself out or into the Body as its own necessity required, there is several other very remarkable things to be observed in the said Monster, and in particular it had a Reddish Coloured wrapper or Mantle growing and Sticking fast to the back thereof, and the Laps on both sides were loose, which was white within and Red without.

The "proboscis" in the illustration with a secondary, rooster-like head is the buccal bulb, unnaturally distended, with spurious eyes drawn on. If it weren't described in the text, I'd have guessed that the secondary head and neck were the siphon and penis of a spawned-out giant squid; sometimes they're found with their unit hanging out of the funnel. The tentacles don't get much attention in either the text or the drawing, where they appear to be little longer than the arms and without suckers or other identifying features. It's possible that the tentacles were present only as truncated stumps, and the broadsheet's creators erred on the conservative side by rendering the "restored" appendages without features; maybe the tentacles really did look that way.

Per Steve's observation, the baggy mantle is more consistent with a big cranchiid than with Architeuthis, so maybe the Dingle squid really was something like Galituethis phyllura (http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Galiteuthis_phyllura&contgroup=Galiteuthis); if the mantle cavity really was white, that would seem to rule out Mesonychoteuthis, whose mantle walls are black (as reported by Dr. Steve, after examining the sub-mature Messie captured this past spring). If the tentacles were present, then the Dingle squid probably wasn't a large specimen of Taningia; adults have only the four arm-pairs, including the specialized photophore-bearing pair.

"Body bigger than a horse..."

:goofysca:

Clem

Hey Steve & Kat,

Any comments from whoever owned the Triumph whose tyres got liberally squid slimed :twisted: ?? I know I got some fairly strange looks/sniffs when I went back to the conference sessions! But really I hadta get in there! Waaaay cool! Course I'm sure it all palls after a while :lol: nah never happen we ceph people are an obsessive lot after all!

Still it was great to catch up!

Cheers

J

.... I did a show for MTV yesterday at home. Had ~ 18 people turn up (never seen anything like this in my life), including medics and security. The neighbors were wondering what on earth all of the commotion was about.

Others online might know who the two lads (dressed in combat gear) were - one was called "Steve O" - he had a tattoo of himself on his back :shock: - they were right out there on a limb. To cut a long story short, the front of the house, garage and ALL of the road STINKS of squid this morning, so I am praying for rain! (I was out there until late scrubbing down) I have to laugh as this film crew all got in up to their elbows in squid (they had a ball) .... and each and every one of them will now stink of squid :mrgreen: (one nearly threw up yesterday). Hope they're not hopping in any plane in the immediate future.

Glad you liked it. Am still trying to track down that camera that someone took pics on. As soon as I get it back (such is life) I'll post them online.

Nice talk you gave at the conference. I'm trying to set up a contract at this point in time looking at heavy metals in Nototodarus that will involve quite a bit of stomach content analysis. Interested?
Me

BTW, another Architeuthis is on its way to us now .... looks like it is a bumper year for this animal in NZ waters (I think that this is # 5 for the winter). Let's hope that they're really common this summer (December down here on the right side of the world) so that we have a bumper number of larval Architeuthis out there for February :madsci:

Looking forward to the photos. Sounds that you have been paid a visit by the ‘Jackass’ crew. That is a bizarre programme in which half a dozen men perform self-mutilating stunts in front of the camera. Most of these are too repulsive to enter into on this family site but one stunt that made me laugh in the Jackass film consisted of two of these insane people, can’t remember who exactly, jumping into the sea with their swimming trunks full of shrimp. A couple of local whale sharks then proceeded to take great interest in their nether regions……….

Oh goodness, I hope it wasn’t Architeuthis they smeared the house in….imagine the stench!

.... I did a show for MTV yesterday at home. Had ~ 18 people turn up (never seen anything like this in my life), including medics and security. The neighbors were wondering what on earth all of the commotion was about.

Others online might know who the two lads (dressed in combat gear) were - one was called "Steve O" - he had a tattoo of himself on his back :shock: - they were right out there on a limb.

Steve,

Phil is right, you've met at least one of the idiot savants in the "Jackass" crew. Congratulations. (Steve-O seems to have a genuine interest in marine biology: my brother met him years ago, near the Mote Marine Laboratory in Florida.) How on earth did he wind up at your house? Was it the affinity between your names that suggested an alliance? I hope there were no squid-related...insertions.

:goofysca:

Clem

Glad you liked it. Am still trying to track down that camera that someone took pics on. As soon as I get it back (such is life) I'll post them online.


Claire Barnaby???????? Maybe, I could be wrong about the surname but she gave a presentation on the use of Mussel factory waste at the conf. She had a digital camera there. I have some shots but they're on one of those old fashioned 35mm jobs :D So I (& everyone else) will need to wait until they're developed (& THAT will need to wait until my bank account recovers from Auckland Prices.........how do you guys live up there???) Kerry may have taken some too but she doesn't get back here til the end of the week.


I'm trying to set up a contract at this point in time looking at heavy metals in Nototodarus that will involve quite a bit of stomach content analysis. Interested?


OF COURSE :bugout: :bugout: :bugout:

J

Ja, tiz a pricey 'hood to live in, but I'm a happy wee camper up here (beats being blown to bits in Wellington, or frozen to bits in Otago). I got quite a shock when we went out for dinner on a few of those evenings .....

I'm having a chat with someone tomorrow re this gut content work. Early days yet but we'll see what we can do.
Cheers
Me

(beats being blown to bits in Wellington, or frozen to bits in Otago). I got quite a shock when we went out for dinner on a few of those evenings .....


yeh, yeh, yeh....it may be cold down here but I have NEVER been so wet as I was last week! It says something about the climate of a place when EVERY store regardless of what it's supposed to sell, sells umbrellas:shock:

a cold but completely dry J!

OMG, I can't believe you were visited by the "Jackass" crew, that is hysterical! Definitely you have to share pics...

Does this look familiar?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0828177/

He's the world's "other" Steve-O... who graduated from Barnum & Bailey Clown College in 1997...

..... yup, that's the lad .... sends a shudder up my spine recollecting the afternoon. It was an experience not-long forgotten (don't know when it will air but will let you know).

I must find out who the other lad was .... I'll shoot a message through, although they're in transit right now. Should know in a few days.
Cheers
O

No contest -- our Steve-O's cuter than their Steve-O.

8)

.... I've had a really bad day ... week ... month. Still no contest? Time I went home and put feet up ... if only I didn't have to review this, that and the other.

... and no, that is not grey hair - it is an artefact of the lighting (along with the general unshaven face and red eyes); who knows when my nose got bent ... I don't ... perhaps it is from Tintenfisch's constant verbal hammering.

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=735

And there we have it... Mr September for the Men of Tonmo calendar. :wink:

.... hmmmmm, that backfired on me didn't it! Wait till TONMOcon ...

And there we have it... Mr September for the Men of Tonmo calendar. :wink:

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Ahem....

Here are a few of the pics taken when we defrosted a couple of squid in the carpark; unfortunately neither the pics nor the specimens are great. The carpark still smells!!

And these are a couple of shots of Taningia danae (for our resident Tani); we'll have something a little more scientific online soon (bearing in mind that a dead animal looks disgusting ... and these have been through a trawl .... obviously even if returned to the sea, whilst at sea, the animal would have died [even though it is dead by the time it reaches the ship]!).
Cheers
O

My poor li'l bro's and sis's, they didn't stand a chance! Steve-O', you are thoroughly heartless. :cry:

Seriously -- were the photophores torn off, or did they just shrivel up after the TDs had been dead for awhile? I don't see any in the picture, and I know they're supposed to be the size and shape of lemons. I assume it's difficult to get photos of a living Taningia (note use of italics to avoid confusion with present company) :wink: -- the only good one I've seen is Clyde's "flasher" at the Ocean Planet site ("Come to Grips with Taningia").

Regarding Archi Image #10: Don't New Xenaland rabbis wear a yarmulke when they do a bris?

:jester:

....'lemon-sized' is a bit like a 60-foot long Architeuthis .... unless it was a small/green lemon. Down here in NZ we grow our lemons the size of pumpkins. I think there's a bit of naughty exaggeration going on in the literature, perpetuated in modern-day accounts simply because nobody is saying otherwise. The time has come to talk of structure size in non-sporting (soccer balls), -dining (dinner plates), -vegetable (pumpkins and lemons), and -vehicular (bus) terms. Metric rules!

The photophores are there - just the 'flashing part' is obscured by lappets. Tintentoontarantulafish is doing something with the pics now to show you where the little glowbulbs are.
Toodles
O

Here's a close-up of those photophores, Tani.
I'd say they were approximately 2.5431176289 cm long. ;)

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=762

Here's a close-up of those photophores, Tani.
I'd say they were approximately 2.5431176289 cm long. ;)

Ah-hah! Thank you for the closeup. Just for the sake of comparison, how big was that particular TD? Because I believe that the "lemon" analogy for the photophores was based upon a 7 ft. (maybe 2.5 m? I'm no good at converting ft./in. to metric) animal.

Anyhow, is it indeed true that T. danae's photophores are the largest light-producing appendages in the world? Or is that record still held by Elton John's concert glasses?

:sun: :sun:

Great new photos, guys.

Are all of T. danae's suckers of the claw-bearing variety? Are they firmly rooted to the arms or capable of rotation? I'm surprised at the colors; I'd have guessed that the outer surfaces of the arms would be red, with the inner portion grey to white.

As for Picture #10, I feel sorry for that guy. As I write this post, that photo is probably being circulated amongst his family, friends and potential romantic partners.

Clem

The hands in pic 7 are mine (If you look closely you can see a foot, 'tis the ONLY pic of my feet known to exist !!). And no I wasn't wearing gloves, there is nothing like the feel/smell of fresh (well almost) squid!

J

.... the good looking, rugged and handsome fellow immediately behind the cone in pic 1 is me (the one doing the talking - ie., all of the work); I think this is one of my better shots :wink:

Clem, I believe (I read somewhere) that the first sucker on each arm lacks a hook; this is something that we'll look at shortly ... afraid I'm just too beat right now to pull an animal from a vat to check.

Cheers
O

.... hard to control excitement....hard to control excitement .... hard to control excitement ....
BUT

.... look what I just got out of a fish stomach!!!!! And the squid that it belongs to IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE FOUND WHERE THE FISH WAS COLLECTED ... the squid is otherwise very well-known from NZ.

Hard to control excitement ... hard to control excitement ....

.... we're closing in on our quarry! We now know where it is for another part of its life cycle!

OMG :shock: :shock: :shock:


Just responding to the general air of excitement in your post and too much V & Red Bull

Deep breath now inhaaaaaale and exhaaaaale now that we're a little calmer

what fish and where was it?

J

.... more news just in ... from a 'secret' (i.e., closely guarded!!) location off northernmost New Zealand (like they're NOT SUPPOSED TO BE FOUND UP THERE) ....AND from the stomach of a male blue shark!!!

So, what's that blue shark doing, what depth is it feeding at, and what is the squid doing up there?!?!? Was the squid live or dead when eaten? These things have a habit of snowballing .... this morn I never expected I'd be researching what is known of blue shark feeding behaviour ....

It is .... pause ..... :band: ..... (poker face) :indiffer: Architeuthis!

Steve,

Wow. You've probably already run down this information, but any TONMO users curious about the Blue shark (Prionace glauca) can get a good primer from the Fishbase.org (http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?genusname=Prionace&speciesname=glauca) page devoted to the type. (At the bottom of the page, click on the "Food items" link to see a list of the Blue's known prey, which includes a rogue's gallery of cephalopods.) Blues are usually found swimming near the surface, with a depth range of 0-350m; other sources give 150m as a more usual maximum depth. Their global distribution is truly catholic, and they make long trips. Note the Fishbase reference to a tagged Blue that traveled from NZ to Chile. That's a long trip.

Was this Blue taken close to shore? What else was in its gut?

Is he the one who bit poor Foo?

Clem

Howdo Clem; the blue was very much an oceanic specimen. Interesting re the supposed depth/feeding range of the blue, because that is going to require us to re-evaluate what we know of the depth distribution of these large squid (either that or the blue shark feeds a lot deeper in these parts than is elsewhere recognised).

It is of course possible that the blue shark is scavenging dead squid from the surface - there's no way that I can prove this wasn't the case .... but of course I want to believe that it is mauling these monsters at great depth!

Nothing else was recovered from the stomach of the shark from which the Architeuthis remains were retained. From another blue we get the following .... another sensational find!! Taningia danae. Look at those hooks - this was a BIG squid!!! (you can separate Taningia hooks from those of Octopoteuthis , as Octopoteuthis has secondary barbs/cusps at the base of the hook). (ED, July 2007; I have since seen secondary barbs/cusps at the base of the hooks found at the base of the arms (proximal region) of Taningia, so the presence/absence of these barbs does not truly differentiate these two genera.)

Very bizarre! Another blue had ~ 30kg of purple-coloured flesh in its stomach; a subsample (retained) is also consistent with Taningia, so this is not an isolated thing!

Wow!

Steve,

Perhaps the Architeuthis and Taningia were bycatch tossed overboard (by someone without your business card), where they were snapped up by the Blues. I'm having a hard time imagining P. glauca tangling with a big, healthy Taningia; those hooks could put out an eye.

A South African web page mentions Architeuthis as prey for Blue sharks, but gives no details.:(

Clem

It is of course possible that the blue shark is scavenging dead squid from the surface - there's no way that I can prove this wasn't the case .... but of course I want to believe that it is mauling these monsters at great depth!



If you have access to the whole blue shark, would it be worth examining the skin for signs of damage that could have been inflicted by suckers? If the squid had been caught alive it may have thrashed around before being consumed.

Apologies if I am stating the obvious!

I'm still buzzing at this end. I'm afraid the stomach contents were from a haul collected by the NZ Ministry of Fisheries Scientific Observer Programme (SOP), given to the Museum of New Zealand, Te Papa Tongarewa, then picked up by me last time in Wellington (several weeks back); so, unfortunately I don't have the whole sharks to examine. That last trip I drove back with stomach contents of 25 pygmy sperm whales (Kogia berviceps), quite a few new sensational squid from the NORFANZ expedition (NZ/Australia/France) [the Museum of New Zealand has that rather sensational web page dedicated to this trip], a few Architeuthis and all manner of other bits and pieces. It was a rather productive trip, albeit a very smelly drive back (and the truck stunk for 2 weeks!!!).

The MFish SOP collect all manner of samples, but I'm afraid I don't have pics of the whole blue sharks. This is a pity, because this was going through my mind yesterday when wondering whether the shark were eating the squid live or dead. Until yesterday I hadn't realised the importance of stomach content analysis of fish/shark species from this particular area to my research, although had tinkered away for years looking at stomach contents of anything that crossed my desk (particularly looking at stomachs of fish species from areas where Architeuthis was known to occur - looking for the juvenile Architeuthis more than anything).

I've two research proposals (Masters/PhD) for anyone wanting to reconstruct deep-sea food webs, looking at commercial and bycatch fish species age; size; sex; diet; bathymetric, geographic and temporal distribution; fishing effort and general habitat structure, if anyone iss interested. The problem is that I have no funds to undertake the research (as in full-fees and stipend scholarship).

Now that we know shark from this particular area (off northeastern New Zealand) are taking Architeuthis and Taningia (Architeuthis not previously known from the area, although one had washed ashore off northernmost New Zealand many years ago), we'll increase our effort in obtaining further samples from commercial and research fisheries in the area, and try and learn more about the temporal and bathymetric distribution of both predator and prey species. We'll also put the request out for photographs of the predator species from which these large cephalopods have been recovered, and hopefully get that tantalising shot of scratch marks around the jaws/over the head.

Cheers
O

Just an update. Also from blue sharks in the region (amongst stomach contents) were ?Megalocranchia (see separate thread titled 'Mystery squid 3 (?Megalocranchia)'), Todarodes sp., Moroteuthis and another squid that has me beat! (pretty much beaks only).

The cephalopods in the diet of yellow fin tuna (other than fish) were mainly pelagic octopods (Argonauta nodosa, Tremoctopus sp. and Ocythoe tuberculata), and a few small squid (Onychoteuthis sp. and Octopoteuthis cf. sicula).

No more Architeuthis I am afraid .... but there's plenty left in that freezer yet.

The tuna are obviously feeding quite shallow (< 200m, but probably closer to the surface); the blue shark MUST be feeding very deep!! You just don't get mature to near-fully mature Architeuthis, Taningia and Megalocranchia, to the best of my knowledge, much shallower than 300 metres (this would be extremely shallow), and usually > 450 metres.

We'll just have to stick transmitters on these things (the sharks) and find out what they're doing.
O

Here are a few pics of an Architeuthis we've just defrosted, in 6 weeks en route to Germany. We defrosted 2 specimens; one rather large, fully mature female (unfortunately this specimen lacked tentacles and had snapped in two pieces during capture), the second a fully mature (smaller) male.

They're making a wee documentary on the capture and preservation of this squid for German television - hence the camera you'll see in one of the shots. To date specimens have been sent to Paris, Taiwan, the United States and New Zealand, so getting one off to Germany is great.

The defrosting happened over the weekend, on the 5th floor of a 6-floor building (not the wisest place to defrost a squid, given all of the slime and running water that is required). We had to build a makeshift tomb to prevent splash and slosh. If anyone cares (nobody here does), I belted my finger with the hammer in the process.

(Ed. July 2007. Am trying to resurrect these and the following images that were lost in a site transfer several years ago; please persevere.)

Here's a picture of the defrosting tomb (since dismantled), and Volker, a Tonmo lurker for ages (the recipient of the squid), in heaven.

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=1338

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=1337

.... and of course, the ever-present cameras, and a bit of fixation (injecting the squid down with formalin solution).

The squid is presently in a big bin, full of brown-coloured formalin and slime. In ~ 6 weeks it should be ready for removal and 'posting' to Germany.

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=1340

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=1339

Wow!! I'm certainly not one to know, but that looks to me like a good specimen! What were its dimensions, and how long was it frozen for?

Sorry to hear about your thumb, doc. :bonk: We do care... in fact, as I recall, didn't you bash your thumb around this time last year? :mrgreen:

Hope your finger is feeling better!

Posting an Archi ? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Betcha that sets the sniffer dogs off :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:!!!!


Kinda reminds me when I was coming back from Hobart, & had to go through the "something to declare" lane, told the customs guy I had squid beaks and pens...big mistake! Took them 3/4 of an hour to figure out that it wasn't on their list of banned stuff (or their list of OK stuff for that matter) and to let me through cos the squid came from NZ & a) I wasn't likely to smoke it and b) they weren't very likely to chase sheep around anyway!


J